Agreed, you just said that “It prevents one person from spending without the permission from the other”. All I'm saying is that one of those is the owner, so the other has an advantage of cheating since they never had that money before.
Such a multisig could be used in a small company for example where you have two people with equal rights on the company revenues, for example. But I personally don't like a 2of2 multisig at all. That was a reply to pooya87 who mentioned the 2of2 setup. In that particular multisig, one person can't do anything without the signature of the other person as well. Whether or not the 2nd party doesn't want to sign the transaction on purpose, losses his keys, or dies without leaving a copy somewhere, the funds are effectively lost. 
Topic: Problem: No seed, no 2fa, with password and access. (Read 329 times)
The comparison was not meant to be in terms of custody of the funds, but rather in the fact that you are paying them (the third party).
Eeeh, then a lightning node can also be compared with a bank. You pay for each transaction you make and it is dependent of the amount you're transferring! I considered the 2FA third party's custody as a comparison with a bank which, as I've said, isn't the same.You can apply the same "logic" in this situation with the coins stuck in a 2FA wallet. Sure, I will lose if I don't sign that transaction and release the funds, but screw you, so will you. You never know what screws someone has loose in his head.
Agreed, you just said that “It prevents one person from spending without the permission from the other”. All I'm saying is that one of those is the owner, so the other has an advantage of cheating since they never had that money before. It's not that I agree on this 2FA idea, but it's far from a typical bank.
I see that my comparison between TrustedCoin's 2FA feature and a bank might not have been the best and smartest move. The comparison was not meant to be in terms of custody of the funds, but rather in the fact that you are paying them (the third party). But, the one who loses is the user if no one cooperates.
In my country, or more precisely in the whole of ex-Yugoslavia, we have a saying: Neka komšiji crkne krava. A rough translation would be "let the neighbor's cow die". It's meant to show that even if an event affects me personally, I don't care as long as it affects my neighbor as well (who I hate or who I am jealous of). In this example with the cow, even if I buy a bottle of milk every morning from my neighbor, I wish that his cow died. I won't be getting my fresh bottle of milk and have to buy if from somewhere else, but at least he will have a harder time than me. You can apply the same "logic" in this situation with the coins stuck in a 2FA wallet. Sure, I will lose if I don't sign that transaction and release the funds, but screw you, so will you. You never know what screws someone has loose in his head.
Paying a third-party service to give you the right to use your own money. Smells like your typical bank.
It's not that I agree on this 2FA idea, but it's far from a typical bank. First off, the third party won't make your money worth( )less. They're just imagined as “safeguards” of your own money. Secondly, there's no censoring in your transactions. You're free to do whatever you want with your money as long as the other party is online.It prevents one person from spending without the permission from the other, but it also gives one party the power from never releasing that money.
But, the one who loses is the user if no one cooperates. The third party didn't have that money in the first place. Let's say I only have 1 computer and I can't use an offline device for signing my transactions.
In the case I use a 2 of 3 multi-signature wallet, two of master private keys and a master public key have to touch the internet. These keys are enough for a hacker
In the case I use a 2FA wallet, one master private key and two master public keys touch the internet. These keys aren't enough for a hacker.
Yes, but you are forgetting the recovery phrase. If that one computer you are creating your Electrum 2FA wallet on is compromised with some kind of malware, that same hacker you mentioned in your examples above could get access to your recovery phrase. The seed alone is enough for that person to recover the wallet on his own, deactivate the 2FA feature, and steal your coins. In the case I use a 2 of 3 multi-signature wallet, two of master private keys and a master public key have to touch the internet. These keys are enough for a hacker
In the case I use a 2FA wallet, one master private key and two master public keys touch the internet. These keys aren't enough for a hacker.
He can create his own 2FA setup if that's what he wants to do. I don't think he needs to pay someone else (Trustedcoin) for something that can essentially be free. But like you said, if he doesn't mind giving them a cut, neither do I.
You are right. Sometimes, it may be better to create a 2 of 3 multi-signature wallet instead of using the electrum 2FA wallet. In this way, you won't have to pay an extra fee to trustedcoin. The problem is that a newbie who has no knowledge about a multi-signature wallet can't do that. Most of the newbies don't know they are actually using a multi-signature wallet when using electrum 2FA wallet. They don't even know they have to pay an additional fee for their transactions.
Although, a 2 of 3 mutli-signature wallet can be used instead of the electrum 2FA wallet and I would prefer to do so, this doesn't mean the electrum 2FA wallet has no benefit.
Let's say I only have 1 computer and I can't use an offline device for signing my transactions.
In the case I use a 2 of 3 multi-signature wallet, two of master private keys and a master public key have to touch the internet. These keys are enough for a hacker
In the case I use a 2FA wallet, one master private key and two master public keys touch the internet. These keys aren't enough for a hacker.
Even in 2of2 designs the user still has half the control.
He does but he can't do anything with that 50% and neither can the other party. He would still need permission/signature from the 2nd cosigner to spend the coins from a 2of2 multisig. It isn't ideal for either sides. It prevents one person from spending without the permission from the other, but it also gives one party the power from never releasing that money. 
Paying a third-party service to give you the right to use your own money. Smells like your typical bank.
With a bank or a bank-like service, the user gives up all their control and will be at the mercy of the bank. In 2FA scenarios, regardless of the implementation details, it can never be like a bank. Even in 2of2 designs the user still has half the control. In case of Electrum, the 2of3 way is chosen so that user still has full control if they wanted to. 
-snip-
I don't agree. Paying a third-party service to give you the right to use your own money. Smells like your typical bank. He should get rid of that wallet and create a new wallet where he alone has access to the data that allows him to spend his bitcoin. The other reason why he shouldn't use that wallet anymore is because he will be paying more in transaction fees because it's a multisig.For full custody of the funds, it's still in the user's control since the two master prvKeys and the master pubKey (of Trustedcoin's key) are in the seed phrase.
So I can agree with hosseinimr93's first suggestion to jotaemeese, only if he still wants to use 2FA
and willing to pay for their service (which I don't think he's aware of).
Just note that if the new wallet is 2FA again, you will have to pay the trustedcoin fee one more time. But I think that's worth it. (You won't pay any additional fee if you make a standard wallet.)
I don't agree. Paying a third-party service to give you the right to use your own money. Smells like your typical bank. He should get rid of that wallet and create a new wallet where he alone has access to the data that allows him to spend his bitcoin. The other reason why he shouldn't use that wallet anymore is because he will be paying more in transaction fees because it's a multisig.OP should make a new standard wallet and move all the fund to that. In this way, he won't pay any additional fee for the next transactions. I mentioned this in my previous post as well.
But if OP persists in using a 2FA wallet for any reason, it would be better to create a new 2FA wallet and pay the trustedcoin fee (the fee that is paid in batches of 20/100 transactions) again. That's worth it, because OP will have the seed phrase of the new 2FA wallet.
The best: a new standard wallet
The worst: the current 2FA wallet
Better than the worst: a new 2FA wallet
Just note that if the new wallet is 2FA again, you will have to pay the trustedcoin fee one more time. But I think that's worth it. (You won't pay any additional fee if you make a standard wallet.)
I don't agree. Paying a third-party service to give you the right to use your own money. Smells like your typical bank. He should get rid of that wallet and create a new wallet where he alone has access to the data that allows him to spend his bitcoin. The other reason why he shouldn't use that wallet anymore is because he will be paying more in transaction fees because it's a multisig. They have sent me a qr code and using the google authenticator it was possible to withdraw the funds.
I recommend you to not use this wallet anymore. If you still have any fund in that, move it to a new wallet. Since you don't have the seed phrase, now you only have 1 of the master private key(s). In the case trustedcoin disappear one day for any reason, you won't be able to make any transaction.
Just note that if the new wallet is 2FA again, you will have to pay the trustedcoin fee one more time. But I think that's worth it. (You won't pay any additional fee if you make a standard wallet.)
Trustedcoin has answered me!
They have sent me a qr code and using the google authenticator it was possible to withdraw the funds.
Thank you very much for all your comments, thanks to HCP for his response and especially to nc50lc for his guidance.
This problem has been resolved !!!
They have sent me a qr code and using the google authenticator it was possible to withdraw the funds.
Thank you very much for all your comments, thanks to HCP for his response and especially to nc50lc for his guidance.
This problem has been resolved !!!
The private keys I got from the same wallet, an exported file containing 31 addresses and 31 private keys. But I only identify the first one, which is my wallet address.
That is expected as the addresses you exported are the one from your wallet. However, if you were to import those private keys into another wallet or use a utility like bitaddress.org, you will find that the private keys do not match the addresses you have exported.This is because the addresses in your 2FA wallet are "p2sh" (you can see in your first screen shot). P2SH = Pay to Script Hash. In this instance, the "script" being used is a multisig script that requires a minimum of 2 out of 3 private keys to be able to sign... as that is effectively what an Electrum 2fa wallet is... a 2-of-3 MultiSig.
Without the other keys (either from your seed and/or TrustedCoin), you will not be able to sign the transaction to spend your coins.
I have access to the email that was used to create the wallet, therefore I will contact Trustedcoin.
I will be notifying the response received.
Best of luck with TrustedCoin, hopefully they can help! I will be notifying the response received.
The private keys I got from the same wallet, an exported file containing 31 addresses and 31 private keys. But I only identify the first one, which is my wallet address.
All those addresses are yours and belong to your wallet. You can verify this by going to te addresses tab on Electrum and you will see that they are the same.Now all you can do is to wait for a reply from TrustedCoin as they are the only one who can help you. Keep your wallet file and private keys safe because you will need them. If you lose them, then even TrustedCoin won't be able to help.
Thank you very much: BlackHatCoiner; nc50lc; Charles-Tim and khaled0111.
I have access to the email that was used to create the wallet, therefore I will contact Trustedcoin.
I will be notifying the response received.
The private keys I got from the same wallet, an exported file containing 31 addresses and 31 private keys. But I only identify the first one, which is my wallet address.
I have access to the email that was used to create the wallet, therefore I will contact Trustedcoin.
I will be notifying the response received.
The private keys I got from the same wallet, an exported file containing 31 addresses and 31 private keys. But I only identify the first one, which is my wallet address.
If you are certain that your were never asked for an authentication code then the wallet you're using now is a different one.
The only logical explanation is that you have more than one wallet and after you updated Electrum, it opened this 2fa wallet by default.
As nc50lc suggested, from the file - > open menu, see if there are other wallets and check them one by one till you find the one you're looking for.
The only logical explanation is that you have more than one wallet and after you updated Electrum, it opened this 2fa wallet by default.
As nc50lc suggested, from the file - > open menu, see if there are other wallets and check them one by one till you find the one you're looking for.
Unfortunately, those private keys are only 1-out-of-the-2 required 'private keys' and 1-out-of-the-3 required 'public keys' to re-create the MultiSig addresses of that 2fa wallet.
Without the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
If he has the seed phrase, he can easily bypass TrustedCoin key and use only two of his keys to spend from the wallet, it is a special setup in a way TrsutedCoin key can be bypassed. If it can be like that, he should be able to make use of his private key to spend his coins, I have not tried it beforeWithout the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
-snip-
In his previous thread, he mentioned that he got the private keys from the wallet.
All those are generated from the master private key that' saved in the wallet file which is only 1-out-of-the-2 required keys to spend from it,
he needs the second set of private keys generated from the 2nd master private key from the seed or the 2nd master private key itself.
He can't just simply pair the keys the he got from the wallet file to regenerate the addresses.
Code:
p2wsh:Kz89M5YVDYv1KnzLMvLqfKKdJY2wn94DKyrPHJmkJR7GWR8Vs79B
I think he should be able to make use of this 2-of-2 private key to spend his coins.
Unfortunately, those private keys are only 1-out-of-the-2 required 'private keys' and 1-out-of-the-3 required 'public keys' to re-create the MultiSig addresses of that 2fa wallet.
Without the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
If he has the seed phrase, he can easily bypass TrustedCoin key and use only two of his keys to spend from the wallet, it is a special setup in a way TrsutedCoin key can be bypassed. If it can be like that, he should be able to make use of his private key to spend his coins, I have not tried it beforeWithout the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
On Electrum, example of the private key is like this: never reveal your private, else your coins will be stolen @jotaemeese
Code:
p2wsh:Kz89M5YVDYv1KnzLMvLqfKKdJY2wn94DKyrPHJmkJR7GWR8Vs79B
I think he should be able to make use of this 2-of-2 private key to spend his coins.
He can also try to use his email he used for the 2fa to contact TrsutedCoin just as you suggested.
I had a reply to your previous thread that was deleted (prob. because the OP isn't English),
Since the contents are similar, I'll just repost my reply here:
Without the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
My guess is it's just simply a different wallet file (File->Open to select);
Or you might have initially created a 2fa wallet but never really spent funds before so it never asked you to enter a 2fa code before.
Anyway, if your funds is in that 2fa wallet and you have the email address that's used to register to Trustedcoin (during the creation of the 2fa wallet),
then try to contact them using that email explaining that you've lost the seed phrase but have access to the wallet and email.
I've seen successful recoveries using this method before.
Since the contents are similar, I'll just repost my reply here:
I have the private keys, obtained from the wallet itself
Unfortunately, those private keys are only 1-out-of-the-2 required 'private keys' and 1-out-of-the-3 required 'public keys' to re-create the MultiSig addresses of that 2fa wallet.Without the seed phrase, there's absolutely no way for you to spent your funds without the intervention of Trustedcoin (Electrum's 2fa service provider).
The wallet file only has one key, they have the other key, your seed had two keys.
Quote from: jotaemeese
Anything you can recommend to me to mobilize those funds?
Electrum wallets wont suddenly switch between standard->2fa.My guess is it's just simply a different wallet file (File->Open to select);
Or you might have initially created a 2fa wallet but never really spent funds before so it never asked you to enter a 2fa code before.
Anyway, if your funds is in that 2fa wallet and you have the email address that's used to register to Trustedcoin (during the creation of the 2fa wallet),
then try to contact them using that email explaining that you've lost the seed phrase but have access to the wallet and email.
I've seen successful recoveries using this method before.
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