Topic: Professional trolls - page 2. (Read 3687 times)

So it appears accounts AdamWhite and TheDasher have been banned as they haven't posted anymore, but he has activated yet another account: DrkLvr_

Circumventing a ban by posting from another account, tsk tsk.

[/thread]

hm, I usually try to stay out of such nonsense, but since I really don't like double-standards: you do realize that you're trolling right now according to your own standards?

You guys have to know how wrong you are when I agree with Smooth.


Hell has officially frozen over.



~BCX~

I believe most people can see that pretty easily. There are certain disorders that can prevent that from happening and I feel if I continue this any longer I will catch one of those myself.

I don't think you can prove that most of the posts are simply to piss people off. Even if it does piss people off.

If someone posts simply to piss off people it is trolling. No need to move the goal posts to cheerleading or evaluating legitimacy of posts just because you can't argue that fact.

The problem with your argument is that a coin thread is not for "fans" of a team who are there to have fun. It is an open discussion of the the coin, including positives and negatives.

To make a specific example, there someone named "toknormal" on the Dash thread who consistently posts positive comments about Dash, often repetitive in nature on narrow perspectives such as (his take on) "monetary properties" or technical analysis usually showing a positive outlook (and likewise the same repetitive, often inaccurate, negative comments about competing coins). He does this often and posts in a similarly cheerleading manner almost every single day.

toknormal's, consistent, frequent positive posts about Dash on the Dash thread, often focusing on the same set of subtopics are no more or less legitimate than TheDasher's consistent, frequent negative posts about Dash on the Dash thread.

If you want to engage on a public forum, you don't get filter negative opinions just because "fans" might find it unpleasant to read them. Such fans can go elsewhere for a forum focused on feel-good cheerleading.

I didn't say there was.



I didn't say I think that.


What I said is that for example if there is a forum for Real Madrid fans, and a Barcelona fan joins the forum with a nick "RealSux", and posts 100 posts how Real Madrid sucks at football. Then one day there is a game that Real loses, and "RealSux" proceeds making a post "REAL LOST AGAIN". Now in isolation, that post might be true and appear as if it was a legit post, but everyone knows it's just plain trolling, nothing else. Pointing out that one post doesn't refute a fact that all his posts are trolling.

There is no such forum rule. The rule was quoted above: "obviously false nonsense"

If forum mods don't want to get involved in judging opinions and scams, do you really think they want to try take into account all the other posts from a user and infer agenda and intent to piss off people, which is largely subjective anyway? I guess it is possible but I seriously doubt it.

Even a post that in isolation wouldn't be trolling, can be trolling when taking into account all the other posts the user has been doing, not forgetting the agenda driven screenname. If the post is clearly made just in an attempt to piss off people, it is trolling.

When you try to apply pedantic logic and rules into everything you will easily make mistakes like that.

ok, Smooth. I'm really tired of talking with you. You are like a lawyer, always pointing the irrelevant to distract from the obvious.

Staff and members: read the stuff. That's all. Then act accordingly.  This kind of people (TheDasher) is garbage.

This kind of people are the cancer of Bitcointalk. Please do something.

It is a shame this conversation is not in spanish or catalan. It's like fighting with my right hand behind my back.

We both well know that not all -- as in 100% -- of his 229 posts are not out of line. I posted specific posts that are clearly not out of line. For example, expressing an opinion on predicted price action. If that is out of line then the lead developer of the coin doing the same thing is also out of line (in fact neither is).

It is important if you have a valid point to support that point with specific evidence.


If you want to claim that the account in question is posting obviously false nonsense (note the emphasis which is mprep's not mine) and that is not constructive opinion, info, or something else substantial that isn't off topic, then you are going to have to quote it specifically and document it as such.

1.- As I said, 229 posts attacking the same thread and the same topic. Not a single post outside it. Repeating the same over and over.

You know and I know. And the posts history is available:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thedasher-489877

This behaviour is ok or not? This guy should be banned after 229 posts? Let people read.

3.- You posted several quotes talking about a supposedly "scam". I did not. You are bringing the debate to the meta section. Not me. I talk about trolls.


This is about the accuracy and good or bad name of a project. A lot of work from a lot of people. This is the meta section and some people will read this debate.   

4.- I was answering a point someone said. Can I?

best, 

Please don't misquote. I didn't say that every single thing about his behavior is okay. I just suggested you should be more specific in terms reporting of actual posts. Rather than claiming "he's a professional troll" (paraphrasing perhaps) which you can't prove (in these sense of professional = paid) and probably isn't true.


Dozens may be overkill but you should cite specifics if you have them. As I demonstrated with quite a few posts all from the very first page of his history list (I didn't look any further than that), many of his posts are opinions and on-topic discussion and are not trolling. I also cited some posts that seem questionable to me.


That is entirely off topic for Meta. Please refrain. The truth or untruth of posts (including scamming and accusations of scamming) is explicitly not moderated.


Also off topic for Meta unless you can cite specific violations of forum rules. Competition and criticism between coins and otherwise is not moderated.

You think the behaviour of "the Dasher" and others is ok, and I think is not. As I said, It is no necessary to debate any longer. This is an open forum and anyone can check the thread and the profiles to decide.

I can quote dozens of trolling posts, some in only one day published by "The Dasher", "Adam" or "Icebreaker". You are a long time reader of the thread and you know this is true.

BTW.- As you mentioned several times about the supposedly DASH "scam". Let me post some links to clarify some facts for the newcomers (we talked one milion times about it in the past, and will be talking about it in the future, don't worry)

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162


Sadly, this is true.  Some people I mentioned are very well known supporters of other coins, coins which are in direct competition of DASH.

First of all there is certainly no FUD when the posts are clearly factual as the one I quoted was.

I'm not saying I like their style and you know that while I'm also critical of Dash at times, I don't express it in the same manner, but I also don't believe that critical posts are inherently trolling. To allow that argument means that any coin can shut down legitimate criticism by reporting it as trolling, and the rules already state that scams and accusations of scamming are explicitly not moderated.

Some of the particular posts may be. If you can pick out particular posts that go beyond criticism to to trolling then point them out. I pointed out one post from the top of that poster's history that was clearly factual, critical and not trolling in my opinion, but you may disagree of course.

As far as a the number of posts, I think you have to consider the popularity and overall level of discussion of the coin generally. A high profile coin with 5000 pages of activity may get a lot more criticism, legitimately, than a smaller one. But bombing the thread and useless frequent bumps is not okay either. If there is stuff too-frequently being posted without new on-topic content then that is a valid complaint. Point it out, specifically.




Here are a few posts that express an opinion. They appear to be original comments, not repetitive posts:



On the other hand there are some posts that may well be trolling. This one I don't understand the image (not quoting the big image here):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12819872

These I'm not sure about. They are opinion, but clearly hostile and perhaps intended to evoke a negative emotional response:

You should also consider that there might be personal conflicts of interest involved. IMO this is more common than being paid (directly or indirectly) to troll here.

@smooth

I want to ask just one question Smooth; do you think the behaviour of the guy who is controlling "the Dasher" is ok? It is correct to have an account only to FUD and TROLL a project?

And yes, what "the Dasher", "AdamWhite", "Icebreaker", etc (not you) is the worse kind of trolling I ever saw in a forum. And I am 39 years old, I began with an Spectrum 48k. So imagine. 

This is not a legitimate concern or discussion. These people repeat the same topic (accusation, joke, etc) 5-6 times in our thread the same day for months. The same topic! Without discussion. Just to troll. 

It is no necessary to belive what I say, anyone can check:

"Icebreaker" latest posts:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/icebreaker-17501

"AdamWhite" latest posts:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adamwhite-216500

Here in the META subforum I asked the people and mods to check "The Dasher", because 229 posts all related (even the name is) with the Dash currency is really a not very common experience. All the posts trolling or fudding the main thread or threads about DASH in the alt section. This is a perfect example of the behaviour I want to denunce.

"The Dasher" latest posts:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thedasher-489877

The problem is not the topic, it is ok to disagree and say it loud. I think this is good. The problem is to repeat the same 5,6 times a day for months.

And yes this is trolling. And I want to know who is the owner of "the Dasher" account, because I think this guy deserves a permament BAN from Bitcointalk.

(surpringsly, after my accusations in the META section these people are very quiet. The history button and the "latest posts" is still available)


I presented some facts, let's other Bitcoiners and mods decide what's ok or not.

What has made conversation on your thread impossible is largely that people from your community (including I think you but I'm not sure) respond to on-topic criticism of Dash not with on-topic support of Dash, but by discussing personalities (including purported doxing), criticizing other coins, conspiracy theories of "paid trolls", etc. all of which is off-topic and explicitly against the forum rules to be discussed there.

That isn't even a judgement call -- off topic posts on a thread are not allowed -- while your claim of "professional" trolls is made with no evidence whatsoever, and somehow the culture of the Dash thread has come to define negative posts, even if entirely substantive and on-topic as to Dash, as "trolling". That is incorrect and you can't expect the moderators to take a position on one side of the debate over the merits of any particular coin.

Moderators can, and do (because I see many of the posts get deleted) go through page after page of the Dash thread and see that in many cases the vast majority of the posts do not discuss Dash at all, either positively or negatively. (Most of those are from supporters of Dash, but I don't really expect moderators to keep track of who is a supporter and who is not.) That is clearly out of line.

tldr police your own.

EDIT: I don't disagree that some individual posts may veer into trolling and those can be legitimately reported as Spoetnik said. That's true for virtually every single thread on this forum. If you think there isn't a lot of trolling everywhere on this forum you need to look around a bit. But many of that poster's posts are just on-topic criticism and it is inappropriate for any coin to expect forum mods censor that (even if it weren't accurate, since accuracy,  opinions, and accusations of scamming are explicitly NOT moderated). Example: