Topic: proof bitcointalk will do anything for bfl scammers (Read 2298 times)

Well , he did reimburse...
But this has scared me.
There will be a limit to the amount he can reimburse , I should probably leave it for blockchain.

So, you see an ad for miners on a forum. You're new to bitcoin, and know nothing about bitcoin mining, but can see it costs several thousand dollars.

You then click on that ad, and are led to a website promising you wildly high returns, with no effort, just a bit of capital expenditure.

You see that anything you order won't be shipped yet. You also are again reminded of the price.

Despite being reminded of the several thousand pounds it costs for this magical machine that prints money, you make no effort to even Google the company, buy bitcoins blindly, without knowing anything about them, so you can buy one. You immediately pay, again, without doing even the slightest bit of searching.

If that situation applies to anyone, well, a fool and his money...

Maybe.... ;-)

Everyone makes mistakes I suppose, its a shame people don't pay more attention to what I say though because however unbelievable the things I say, they are true...

Queen of UK, of Netherlands, Rothschild's, Rockefeller's are all men behind the curtain and need hanging for global crimes and genocide. Its time to root out this evil blood from the human race before they finish agenda 21!

Agenda 21 is how they are going kill us all off and its well in motion now.

Again though, people will say I'm crazy, people may say I'm mad, but that doesn't change the fact that what I say is true!

Down with the cockroaches ;-)

P.S - your forgiven xian01, just rooting out the cockroaches

  ... and so I've now been told. Can you move on now and give it a rest ?

 I honestly have no recollection of whatever slight I've committed towards you to be the recipient of so much vitriol.

 It seems I owe you an apology as well.

 If I could offer some advice, I might recommend turning down the intensity of your rhetoric here. Your noise:signal is confusing to take in and decode.

Told you so! And you abused me!

TOLD YOU SO! You trashed me on the butterfly web site too. Some people can't see the woods for the trees though, sorry, most people!

Anyways, where josh the dirty cockroach! He's gone quiet lately the dirty little spunk bubble. He truely as no moral compass and neither did bfl, what ever happened to the old bint Jody at butterfly labs, did she ever wake up to what a load of bullshit she was being fed by CEO/coo cockroaches or is she apart of the scam too?

Some people just can't use there own brains they were given! And just allow them to be taken away! Which is why the world is where it is! Fucked!

 Excuse me ? I'm the troll ?

 If it's not clear to you that I turned a complete 180 on my support of Butterfly Labs, then there is absolutely no way to reason with you.

 Maybe it was obvious to you. Some of us took a little bit longer to get the memo, and are, sadly, trusting people who had that trust abused and broken in the most duplicitous and malicious manner possible.

Xian01 - the worlds biggest hipocrit who was backing up bfl even when it was obvious to the rest of the world it was scam! Get back under your rock troll, your just as much in the wrong has cockroach josh and thermoflask!

Where's the cock roach? As he ran to the woods yet before someone gets him! He really should be looking over his shoulder everyday from now on! Seriously, everyone at bfl too because you have pissed so many people off I'm surprised he's still breathing as it is. Cockroaches are hard to kill though apparently!

Thermoflask not defending himself either? Bet it was him who deleted my comment because he's josh's bum buddy. Josh loves going on a picnic with his thermoflask

In my experience, upgrading software is not at all a sure-fire way to increase security.  Often enough it is counterproductive in this respect.


Ya, that was one of the more amusing things I've seen lately.

I didn't even bother to change my password after either hack.  I'd probably just have to do it again later on after the next one, and if someone obtains it from the hash (unlikely) the worst they can do is pretend to be me.  Then I obtain plausible deniability for my ravings.  What's not to love!

Obviously I don't share either usernames or passwords on any site, and certainly not one like bitcointalk.org.

'Reading it somewhere', and especially if that somewhere was linked to bitcointalk.org, is of questionable value when it comes to understanding reality.

Theymos might have produced some sort of verifiable accounting, but I've not paid much attention.  It's not terribly important to me, and I figure that if he wants to pocket it or distribute it among his friends, that's exactly what he'll do.

For my part, I've never made any contribution to bitcointalk.org.  Partly this is because for a while at least there seemed to be a trend of people being 'donors' mostly for the purposes of using it as a confidence inspiring ruse targeting newbies.  Also, though, because there are a lot of other valuable and worthwhile efforts in the ecosystem which are less well funded.  And which rely on more honorable methods of funding as well.

well i thought the forum is not owned by a single person? I believe I read it somewhere that the money that goes to the forum is for community benefit... "ONLY"...

 IMO, the first thing people should do here on these forums is delete the trust inheritance, and build their own network of trust starting from zero.

 The default trust list is... interesting.

@Bullionado

One man's rampant hate is another man's constructive criticism.

In my opinion, newbies are best served by being strongly warned not to blindly trust anything, and especially not anything on bitcointalk.org.

You can learn a lot here, and probably make some good contacts.  As another guy said, there are a lot of people here who have good ethics and are trustworthy.  Even those who are not often have valuable information.  But it takes time and effort to sort things out.

For all the 'hate' that Thermos has drawn, or outwardly appears to have, he did try to implement a trust system.  I'm not sure how effective it is at this time or how much potential it has for effectiveness as it ages, but it seems like a worthwhile experiment at least.

I formally apologize for using such a broad brush.  Even I don't believe it fully, and I know plenty of genuine Libertarians who have decent ethics and who I trust completely.

Didn't you yourself say that your perception was influenced by officially displayed ads on this site?  I know that that made some impression on me before I wised up.

I cannot blame anyone for missing certain things in the vast sea of garbage here on Bitcointalk.  That said, complaints about BFL are so pervasive and convincing that nobody who is paying any attention at all should have missed them and got drawn into deeper research.

--- re to other post ---

As for BFL, I know for a fact that they proudly proclaimed things that they had to have known were flat out lies with respect to timing and development/manufacturing progress at least.  I also know for a fact that they used extraordinarily deceptive strategies on their sales page because I marched all the way through them without getting any indication that had I sent money, I'd be waiting for many months before I saw any hardware.  If ever.

This alone make BFL total shit-bag scum in my book.

Ya, some people may have eventually made money, but how much more would they have made if they had bought honestly promoted gear and mined it rather than sitting around with their thumbs up their ass for six months waiting for gear which was obsolete by the time it arrived?  Or just sat on BTC (my strategy)?

Even if some people did end up making money hashing with BTC gear, it was a result of valuations of BTC in the marketplace and BFL had exactly zero to do with that.

If people will allow themselves to be scammed, then I have no sympathy for them; it is in your every interest and your complete burden to ensure the company you're buying from is competent and just.  There are no guarantees, no matter who you're trading with.

The ads, if anything, should be a black hole of money for BFL if people actually did this and consequently refused to buy from them, and I hope the losses that ensue for failing to be cautious encourages them to be so.  This is what you get in a free market; you have to be able to filter the good from the bad, and if BFL is not a good company to buy from (as has been stated numerous times in the Bitcoin community), then the ads should not be a bother to the informed person.  The ads will thus naturally go away once BFL no longer profits from them; the fact that they're still there says there's still changes to be made in the community's behavior.

People don't seem to understand, that the Admins of this site don't necessarily find BFL to be a scam company... This has been debated over and over. While you think BFL is a scam, those that were lucky enough to get their BFL products early, and made a ton of coin may feel differently. Its pretty obvious that BFL is horribly run, and they are incompetent when it comes to meeting deadlines, however had they been a flat out, black and white scam case, they would have shipped nothing at all, and ran off with their customer's money after 6 months of missed deadlines when everyone had already cut their losses and figured it was a scam.

I don't know how I personally feel about BFL, its really a gray area. I think they have mistreated their customers, but at the same time, its impossible to say that they are a complete scam because they have shipped product. While they have missed deadline after deadline, there was never anything in their terms that said, YOU WILL MAKE A ROI. If it was a guarenteed thing, they wouldn't be selling hardware in the first place, and just mining with it. It should have been their first priority to help their customers as much as possible, which they obviously have not done, however that just makes them guilty of bad business practice, not being a scam.

The argument that people have that Theymos is being corrupted by BFL's advertising money is incredibly stupid. First off, there was a month stretch where BFL purchased no advertising. Second, I did the calculation before, had BFL not been involved in the auction process, the Auctions would have yielded an average of .19 BTC less per week. And third, Theymos does not get the advertising money... While the staff does get paid about 15% of the advertising revenue per month, that .19 BTC X 4 Weeks = .76 BTC. Split between 40 staff members, do you really think Theymos or any of the staff would really be corrupted by .02 BTC? I mean, suuuuure if BFL wanted to pay an additional 100 BTC to the staff to talk nicely about their product, there would be an argument there, however I really realllllly highly doubt that Theymos or the rest of the staff would sell out for an additional .02 BTC.

 Sure, people who invested in BFL FPGA's profited years ago. It cannot be argued that the BFL we've seen since their ASIC rollout is a different, more malicious company than when they were manufacturing FPGA's. It just so happens that this is about the time a certain new COO took the helm.

 The point is, yes, you can regulate adverts very easily; Ignore bids from people who have low trust, or have incensed the community enough to the level out outrage we see with BFL. Personally, if I was running a forum, and some belligerent troll such as our favorite COO wanted to throw money at me to advertise, while simultaneously shitting all over the community he wants to advertise on, I would turn him away, rudely, on principle. I would be embarrassed to allow them to advertise in my community.

 It's called "Having a moral compass", and Theymos' is clearly broken beyond repair.

 This is why this community is such a brutal dichotomy. On one hand, you have people with a sense of decency, morality, and ethics facing-off against fraudsters, criminals, and dishonest actors.

 Meanwhile, the unscrupulous landlord is profiteering all the way to the bank while his tenants get fleeced and burned.

 Shameful place Thermos has let this place become.

 Don't think I've ever "virtually met" a person running forums displaying such utter disregard and lack of integrity.

 It's disgusting.

My interpretation of Libertarian business philosophy is that if one person end up with money that used to be in another person's pocket, it basically does not matter how it happened (absent overt violence in most cases to be a bit more fair about it.)  The fact that it happened at all is sufficient evidence to prove one party superior in some way to the other and thus the migration of value is simply natural market forces at work.  And the biggest failure would be to time things inappropriately such that more money could have been made by being more patient.

I seem to remember you, Goat, taking some actions to try to make your customer's whole at your own expense when things blew up (although again I did not study things in detail.)  This is why I was a little bit confused about whether you were a true Libertarian (like our friend Theymos.)  Of course such a seemingly noble instinct could very well be simply a setup for future operations, but somehow I just didn't sense that this was the case.  Maybe I'm just to much of a fan-boy or something.

 - edit:  BTW, my interpretation has been developed in part by watching, however casually, the GLBSE and pirate@40 stuff as it went down.

I didn't really pay much attention to either GLBSE or pirate@40's thing.  I thought that pretty much everyone knew the latter was a ponzi and was going to crater eventually.  GLBSE seemed to me like a political pipe-dream with extreme risk and without much future.  Neither of them seemed like very compelling things to put much effort into and I don't really recall what was advertised where.

Anyway, both the 6k BTC, and the high valuations there-of are relatively newer developments.  It's always possible that ~thermos would see it in the interest of both the community and his own soul to make appropriate use of the authority that fate has delivered to his lap regardless of whatever past actions/in-actions may have transpired.