Proof that bitcoin is needed, even by developed countries such as US of A - page 2.

AppliedOptimal

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Quote from: serjent05 on September 20, 2019, 08:08:35 AM

Quote from: AppliedOptimal on September 20, 2019, 07:52:53 AM

Ok, the title reads "Proof the USA needs bitcoin. When you have a single entity, in this case, the US government, running everything, they can do anything they want. True they lose some votes, but it is not a very good day-to-day checking mechanism on the economy. Many people do not understand the intricacies of the economy anyways.
This is similar to having taxi cabs only, versus cabs plus Uber Lyft, etc.
Monopoly is a horrible thing and the government has a monopoly on money at this point. Having bitcoin and other crypto breaks that monopoly apart. That is the sole reason they don't want bitcoin. They are afraid of it because they cannot control it.
You will probably tell your grandkids that money was printed on paper and you had to ask the government for it.

The idea of Bitcoin is great yes, but in the current situation, Bitcoin partially moves into being monopolized by certain number of individual with a huge stash of Bitcoin and a group of people who have that majority vote on its concensus (reason for forks). Yes, they(Bitcoin whales) cannot govern Bitcoin transaction or those who are holding BTC,but they can dictate the tempo of its market. Imagine a country's economy that can be easily crashed by only a number of individual from the other country.

As of the government does not want bitcoin because they cannot control it, I am in for that, but as a home owner, can you let someone from outsider govern your financial activity? Isn't this the reason why we hated the government? Probably same rule when it comes to government and bitcoin.

Monopoly in any form is just bad and I think we both agree on this point. That is why having a monopoly on value, in this case money, is bad. Competition=good monopoly= bad.
I also agree that a more balanced distribution would help matters on both crypto and Fiat. People have been complaining how a few individuals hold the top wealth in Fiat and it has been around for a very very long time. Crypto has been here since 2008, only 11 years. In time the distribution will be better I think. I don't have any evidence for it but things tend to get into more hands in time because whales will want to sell or spend what they have.

kryptqnick

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Yeah, what's truly bad about fiat is how it can be printed uncontrollably. The only thing that's supposed to stimulate the central banks not to do that is the risk of hyperinflation. But the temptation is so high! Especially if you're a country like the US that has a huge debt to other countries like China, and since your currency is the one many other currencies measure their value against, you feel like you will be safe no matter what. I think it's better to have volatility and be sure nobody's devaluating money in a centralized way than have a currency that seems stable but can actually explode anytime.

serjent05

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Quote from: AppliedOptimal on September 20, 2019, 07:52:53 AM

Ok, the title reads "Proof the USA needs bitcoin. When you have a single entity, in this case, the US government, running everything, they can do anything they want. True they lose some votes, but it is not a very good day-to-day checking mechanism on the economy. Many people do not understand the intricacies of the economy anyways.
This is similar to having taxi cabs only, versus cabs plus Uber Lyft, etc.
Monopoly is a horrible thing and the government has a monopoly on money at this point. Having bitcoin and other crypto breaks that monopoly apart. That is the sole reason they don't want bitcoin. They are afraid of it because they cannot control it.
You will probably tell your grandkids that money was printed on paper and you had to ask the government for it.

The idea of Bitcoin is great yes, but in the current situation, Bitcoin partially moves into being monopolized by certain number of individual with a huge stash of Bitcoin and a group of people who have that majority vote on its concensus (reason for forks). Yes, they(Bitcoin whales) cannot govern Bitcoin transaction or those who are holding BTC,but they can dictate the tempo of its market. Imagine a country's economy that can be easily crashed by only a number of individual from the other country.

As of the government does not want bitcoin because they cannot control it, I am in for that, but as a home owner, can you let someone from outsider govern your financial activity? Isn't this the reason why we hated the government? Probably same rule when it comes to government and bitcoin.

AppliedOptimal

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Quote from: serjent05 on September 20, 2019, 07:42:20 AM

Honestly I do not think Bitcoin is needed at its current state. I would like to ask, in what sense is Bitcoin needed? To preserve the value of money or what? If in case USA adopted Bitcoin, with its (Bitcoin) nature of distribution, the core of USA economy will be shaken. Imagine, using a currency where only a few individual have a huge stash of it. Worst it is not the country's government holding it but rather a small number of people in different nation. They can easily crash the economy of a country if these people who are holding huge stash of BTC decided to. And we don't want that to happen, do we?

Quote from: Flor1982 on September 19, 2019, 08:43:07 PM

The government support the Gold but if they do the math Bitcoin is the real gold because the supply is limited.

Lol, how could be Bitcoin be the real gold? Read : "Au is not BTC". Just because it has limited supply does not mean it can be the real gold.

Ok, the title reads "Proof the USA needs bitcoin. When you have a single entity, in this case, the US government, running everything, they can do anything they want. True they lose some votes, but it is not a very good day-to-day checking mechanism on the economy. Many people do not understand the intricacies of the economy anyways.
This is similar to having taxi cabs only, versus cabs plus Uber Lyft, etc.
Monopoly is a horrible thing and the government has a monopoly on money at this point. Having bitcoin and other crypto breaks that monopoly apart. That is the sole reason they don't want bitcoin. They are afraid of it because they cannot control it.
You will probably tell your grandkids that money was printed on paper and you had to ask the government for it.

serjent05

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Honestly I do not think Bitcoin is needed at its current state. I would like to ask, in what sense is Bitcoin needed? To preserve the value of money or what? If in case USA adopted Bitcoin, with its (Bitcoin) nature of distribution, the core of USA economy will be shaken. Imagine, using a currency where only a few individual have a huge stash of it. Worst it is not the country's government holding it but rather a small number of people in different nation. They can easily crash the economy of a country if these people who are holding huge stash of BTC decided to. And we don't want that to happen, do we?

Quote from: Flor1982 on September 19, 2019, 08:43:07 PM

The government support the Gold but if they do the math Bitcoin is the real gold because the supply is limited.

Lol, how could be Bitcoin be the real gold? Read : "Au is not BTC". Just because it has limited supply does not mean it can be the real gold.

fullhdpixel

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I am quite surprised at this news, how the US could have ever thought of printing money when they know the effect of it on their country, they don’t care anyway, and they don’t even care of the effect of that on their fiat because if they do, they would not have printed such high amount.

Well I agree with you that we need bitcoin, bitcoin has limited supply and this is what satoshi aim to achieve, to stop all these baseless over printing if money. How I wish that US could accept to use bitcoin as their second money even if they will not completely disregard fiat because if its usefulness to those uneducated people that would find it hard to use cryptocurrency because of its internet base technology, but it is actually meant to serve as alternative which is what I expect the US to have looked into being the giant of the world.

AppliedOptimal

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Quote from: franky1 on September 19, 2019, 03:15:58 PM

$75mill... thats small

the UK 'creates' wll over £90mill every year, and thats just the government 'loan' let alone the commercial banks activities

It is not 75 Million!!! Here, check out what I wrote in the original post please:

Quote

According to this news source, this time, the USA printed an unprecedented amount of money, 75 Billion dollars! Yes, that is with a B and not with an M.

Flor1982

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The government support the Gold but if they do the math Bitcoin is the real gold because the supply is limited.
World population by 2050 is approximately 10 Billion
Amount of actual Bitcoin is just 21 Million
We could guess of how much is the future price value when we slowly approach that year.

Ayiranorea

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The inflation percentage will never be the same every year, maybe this gets maintained or till the ruling party is in power. Even if the inflation level go high it'll be kept hidden to show that they're wealthy to the outer world. Over the next ten years we can experience big change on the inflation level as there is direct printing of money by USA and China. Bitcoin being limited, even if the president or any other entity tries the supply is fixed. This will surely help with reducing the inflation rate of the country using bitcoin in a planned way.

FlightyPouch

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Quote from: Prettyme on September 19, 2019, 05:00:37 PM

Yes you're right. It's just like US helping bitcoin to patronize by people because of their wrong moves. But as you said it yet the time for bitcoin to replace fiat because a lot of people still don't have any idea about cryptos. And I'm also hoping that that bitcoin price will go up soon.

They are not helping bitcoin to be more popular, they are doing it for themselves and not for that reason. It is been done for years, and when a crypto currency, pumps the price, they will be saying that its price is been made out of thin air, yet they make billions of fiats. People might hate fiat but the status of bitcoin and other crypto currency wi stay the same.

Prettyme

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Quote from: Mandoy on September 18, 2019, 08:28:24 AM

One possible reason why bitcoin was made is because of the non-transparent and over printing of US dollars. This could be one of the reason why some people are starting to join into the cryptocurrency world and use bitcoin. But it is still too early for bitcoin to replace bitcoin since the world is not ready yet. One day when there will be another global economic recession due to the overprinting of US dollars a big number of the populace will be migrating into bitcoin.

Yes you're right. It's just like US helping bitcoin to patronize by people because of their wrong moves. But as you said it yet the time for bitcoin to replace fiat because a lot of people still don't have any idea about cryptos. And I'm also hoping that that bitcoin price will go up soon.

blueteam09

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Cash is turning into a tool to control the government's economy, misusing it will put the country at risk of inflation and turn the economy into a chaotic fat. I think using Bitcoin will be the best solution for all of us, Bitcoin cannot create more and that eliminates the possibility that inflation may appear.

franky1

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$75mill... thats small

the UK 'creates' wll over £90mill every year, and thats just the government 'loan' let alone the commercial banks activities

ahmadakbari

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Quote from: AppliedOptimal on September 19, 2019, 01:37:27 PM

The discussion seems to be evolving towards inflation rates. When I was talking about inflation, my point was that countries have been printing money, which is complementing inflation and reducing the FIAT, paper money's worth.

I got what you meant. You are right.
I read the replies to your topic. Some people believe that as 2% inflation rate is not high, there is no problem. They don't pay attention to the fact that the gevernment can print money as much as they want and there is no guarantee that the inflation rate will be 2% next year. They will print money whenver they want and the value of papers that people have doesn't matter to them.
The main problem is that we should try hard to earn something that can be easily printed by governments.

AppliedOptimal

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The discussion seems to be evolving towards inflation rates. When I was talking about inflation, my point was that countries have been printing money, which is complementing inflation and reducing the FIAT, paper money's worth.
There are stronger indications now that FED has been injecting this money again and again.
This Thursday has become the third day in a row!
Business Insider has reported that the FED has injected $203 billion this week alone.

The market where banks borrow from each other is called the repo market. This money was related to repo market and the Federal Reserve bailed out a bank!
The major problem with this money injection is that the Fed did not reveal which bank it was saving. When you have transparency problems, it means there may be more bailing out money, and it can keep coming.

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Quote from: bitmover on September 18, 2019, 09:58:35 AM

I don't think a small inflation such as 2% is a problem, as long as there is a place to keep your money safe from that (like 2% interest rates)

This is true, but when central bank rate-cutting puts interest rates near 0% or even below, banks stop paying interest to savers. There are lots of US savings accounts that pay 2-2.5% APY right now, but from 2008-2015 the target rate was at 0.00–0.25%.

Over that same period of time, prices inflated 19%! It feels like highway robbery.

ahmadakbari

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Bitcoin is 100% needed and the main reason is exactly what the OP said.
There are many other countries with much higher inflation rate. Many of third world countries print money for giving back the money people store in banks. These countries print money and people never find out how much they are printing. In these countries people store their money in the banks and they have nothing other than some numbers shown in their account. "Bitcoin is the solution."

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Quote from: bitmover on September 18, 2019, 09:58:35 AM

I don't think a small inflation such as 2% is a problem, as long as there is a place to keep your money safe from that (like 2% interest rates)

In the UK at least less than 1% of risk free savings products are capable of beating inflation, and of that 1% you have to lock up the money for several years which may eat the gains anyway. That definitely did not used to be the case 10 or more years ago.

It's a different world now and it's probably remaining that way. If you don't want your money to be corroded into nothing they're going to make you work for it.

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Quote from: bitmover on September 18, 2019, 09:58:35 AM

I don't think a small inflation such as 2% is a problem, as long as there is a place to keep your money safe from that (like 2% interest rates)

I was reading recently about deflation problems (this is what bitcoin will be facing soon, as many bitcoins are lost forever and very few created)

Deflation is problematic and it may aggravate recessions.

Sure. For the 30 minute research I've done in the past, 2% seems to be the sort of preferred number for inflation. The question though is, how long can they sustain the 2% inflation? How can we make sure it will be 2% forever? We can't. Though it's a lot less unlikely for the US to have higher inflation compared to some 3rd world country, it's just a matter of 'when' as far as I know.

Also, I don't think the deflationary nature of bitcoin would actually be harmful. I don't expect a huge majority of people to have money on bitcoin for SoV purposes anyway, just like not a lot of people have money in gold right now.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though, I definitely need to do a lot more reading on economics.

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Quote from: AppliedOptimal on September 18, 2019, 07:06:03 AM

FIAT, as everyone knows, can be printed out of thin air. They used to back it with gold, but they gave that up some fifty years ago. Real inflation is about 1 percent in Europe and USA but they increase that to about 2-2.5 percent by printing some money every year.
According to this news source, this time, the USA printed an unprecedented amount of money, 75 Billion dollars! Yes, that is with a B and not with an M.

Bitcoin has a limited supply and cannot be governed by governments or presidents. That is why they are afraid of it!

Bitcoins can't be printed, but the perceived supply could be inflated by fractional reserve banking. In the years to come, banks will be dealing with bitcoins -- deposits, lending and what not -- so that's likely to happen.

Topic: Proof that bitcoin is needed, even by developed countries such as US of A - page 2. (Read 581 times)