Proof that Crime isn't Why they Hate Bitcoin.

CyberKuro

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over:: like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class, Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

VPN and proxies are different with bitcoin, those has different features such as bitcoin could use to send huge amount of money under the radar and untraceable if people do it properly. Some people from may hate it because decentralized digital currency and can not be controlled but mostly people who judge it as bad thing because they just know that bitcoin being used by criminals to do transactions and money laundering, simply because lack of information.

btccashacc

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over:: like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class, Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

I must confess that freedom is the main reason why do they hate bitcoin, something that they can't control. It is clear that Bitcoin is just a currency like dollar, euro, etc and people always have control over their money whether to do good things or some criminal activities. When they mentioned bitcoin in a bad way all I can see they're just jealous but they especially the government always looking for a way to control it which is too impossible, the simplest thing that they can do is only regulate it.

Pettuh4

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Quote from: gamerfan on June 30, 2017, 02:26:51 PM

I don't think governments, banks and other powerful entities really hate Bitcoin, because it is just an investment tool...why should they be afraid of it? No reason. Indeed Bitcoin could become just another asset to make them become even richer.

Yes but they hate it because it is able to transfer funds globally and anonymously and bad people can use it to fund illegal projects without being found out. This is where the hatred basically comes from and not from the investment potential of Bitcoin.

gamerfan

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I don't think governments, banks and other powerful entities really hate Bitcoin, because it is just an investment tool...why should they be afraid of it? No reason. Indeed Bitcoin could become just another asset to make them become even richer.

ss890

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 29, 2017, 09:31:14 AM

Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over:: like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class, Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

Tools that bring freedom are a double edged sword, because with freedom then you are free to do bad things too. So the only way out is to consider the pros and cons and I think it's clear that the pros are better than cons.

For example in Venezuela with their corrupt government ruining everyone's lives bitcoin is very useful and crucial. If other governments wanted to ban it, then they would ruin it for them too.

Yeah it's true, the story of double edged sword. I think freedom is good thing but there are those kind of people who use it in bad way which should be restricted. Now if we were able to vanish the crime from us then we could have settled better lives in this world. So it seems it's not possible to do it with bitcoin as well. No identity to know whose who? Then this trouble has to be there and one can just avoid it.

iamTom123

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Right now, Bitcoin has not yet reached the very mainstream of our society and business and this can be the reason why many people have wrong perceptions and association with this digital currency. By the time that the smoke is cleared, people will have a balanced view towards the coin.

Crimes have been on the side of humanity ever since we can remember. Now, the tools that they are using is not actually the main issue because as far as the currency is concerned they could have used the dollar or any fiat money. Granted that Bitcoin has become the most convenient for hackers to use as payment mode for their shenanigans but it should not elevate the whole situation into the "destroy that Bitcoin' kind of thinking.

olushakes

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over:: like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class, Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

The reason issue they have against bitcoin and hiding under the issue of crime is because they cannot exercise control and the fact that their own revenue cannot be guaranteed if they allow bitcoin free hand and the moment the money is not coming to finance the machineries of government then government cease to exist. With all the policies in place all over countries, have they been able to stop crime but looking into stopping bitcoin I am the moment they find their interest protected with bitcoin, they will give it free hand.

Kprawn

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Quote from: Hydrogen on June 29, 2017, 05:26:35 PM

Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be fair, LE (law enforcement) and intelligence agencies (like CIA, NSA, FBI) own & run a lot of proxies and VPN's.

TOR could be moreso what you're looking for.

Although it could be said that intelligence has been trying to find ways to monitor TOR as well if they haven't already.

They already infiltrated Tor too, because they run many exit nodes. If you look at the tools that were leaked, then we are in bigger trouble than

most people have even considered yet. I just accepted that they OWN our data and if you stay away from criminal activities, then you should be

fairly safe from prosecution. Huh

mk4

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Quote from: xFiber on June 29, 2017, 06:03:26 PM

Yea you're right. Right now the main excuse is terrorism. That's also why prepaid phone cards are slowly but surely getting banned. Because it's nearly untraceable.

Are they really close to getting banned? Any sources?

I think prepaid phone cards can be traceable through signal and through the phone itself(not the sim card). But yea, this easy solution for criminals to get past this is to buy very cheap mobile phones and just get rid of the phone after like every transaction and get a new one after. Cheesy

hardtime

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Well crime is going to be one of the easy ones for people to point to, and it's also one of the easy ones that the news can touch on to be able to get people scared of adopting Bitcoin. I'd actually appluad them for doing it, as they're pointing to peoples worst fears (getting them views) and then tying it in with Bitcoin to be able to keep their banker overlords and owners happy and powerful. Though I and many others on this forum probably do know that the reason governments and bankers hate Bitcoin is going to be that they're heeding control of their power to someone else, something that they would never want to do.

Anegg

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over:: like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class, Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

Your point is correct, but there are still people who are opposed to Bitcoin due to its anonymity, while for VPNs people have become accustomed to them. You forgot to compare 2 things, Bitcoin and VPNs are totally different. Bitcoin is a payment method, while a VPN can only hide your activity and do illegal stuff. But when you pay for the illegal stuff, people are then opposed to bitcoin. Even though people say cash is more anonymous, that is only so if you are within a distance of the person you are paying.

Every currency has problems, but that is no excuse to not use it.

xFiber

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Yea you're right. Right now the main excuse is terrorism. That's also why prepaid phone cards are slowly but surely getting banned. Because it's nearly untraceable.

OROBTC

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Quote from: Hydrogen on June 29, 2017, 05:26:35 PM

Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be fair, LE (law enforcement) and intelligence agencies (like CIA, NSA, FBI) own & run a lot of proxies and VPN's.

TOR could be moreso what you're looking for.

Although it could be said that intelligence has been trying to find ways to monitor TOR as well if they haven't already.

And THAT ^^^ is what I have been trying to learn more about.

Perhaps the next great career choice for a young person (college age) might be to getting a PhD is Cryptography and/or similar applied math.

Finding (and proving) unbreakable cryptography would be a HUGE thing.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

To be fair, LE (law enforcement) and intelligence agencies (like CIA, NSA, FBI) own & run a lot of proxies and VPN's.

TOR could be moreso what you're looking for.

Although it could be said that intelligence has been trying to find ways to monitor TOR as well if they haven't already.

ImHash

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No one hates bitcoin, no one hates weak and poor you just made that up, hating bitcoin is like hating the internet or computer, bitcoin is nothing but lines of code written by man, it does whatever the code says and it has no mind of it's own, people usually hate on living beings because they can talk and have opinions of their own, they can oppose them or harm them that's why they hate them.

Josef27

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Quote from: Baofeng on June 29, 2017, 02:25:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Actually, bitcoin isn't best asset, currency or commodity to be used as crime tool because bitcoin nature is pseudonymous where anyone can track your bitcoin movement as long as they know your bitcoin addresses, unless you use trusted bitcoin mixer. Furthermore, government could compare bitcoin movement/addresses with regulated bitcoin services and know the owner of the bitcoin.
Those people who critic bitcoin either don't know how bitcoin works, hates bitcoin or both of them.

Exactly. they thought they can get away with crimes using bitcoin. But they don't know that bitcoin is pseudo anonymous. And it a government agency wants to track you it will be easy because its like following a paper trail. So you can't get away with it. You will see a lot of news people being tracked by their bitcoin address.

This is all about to change, anyone will be able to make there transactions anonymous pretty soon with all the new privacy chains coming online. Heck I've thought about doing it if the BTC fees weren't so high right now.

Baofeng

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Actually, bitcoin isn't best asset, currency or commodity to be used as crime tool because bitcoin nature is pseudonymous where anyone can track your bitcoin movement as long as they know your bitcoin addresses, unless you use trusted bitcoin mixer. Furthermore, government could compare bitcoin movement/addresses with regulated bitcoin services and know the owner of the bitcoin.
Those people who critic bitcoin either don't know how bitcoin works, hates bitcoin or both of them.

Exactly. they thought they can get away with crimes using bitcoin. But they don't know that bitcoin is pseudo anonymous. And it a government agency wants to track you it will be easy because its like following a paper trail. So you can't get away with it. You will see a lot of news people being tracked by their bitcoin address.

cryp24x

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Quote from: mobnepal on June 29, 2017, 12:49:23 PM

Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

Are you sure about this? How VPN and proxies can provide same capability like bitcoin Shocked

I think you should read about them once again, bitcoin sole propose was not only to provide anonymity. It was designed to give total financial freedom and privacy which we can't get when using any of vpns, proxy or tor network.

That is what my question too. How could VPN and proxies have the same capability as Bitcoin, I have not heard any news people using VPN and Proxy as payment to buy them goods. And Bitcoin does not offer a good anonymity either since all transaction were publicly displayed. I agree that he needs to review the features of this three things. (Bitcoin, VPN, Proxy)

mobnepal

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Quote from: Ucy on June 29, 2017, 09:22:48 AM

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.

Are you sure about this? How VPN and proxies can provide same capability like bitcoin Shocked

I think you should read about them once again, bitcoin sole propose was not only to provide anonymity. It was designed to give total financial freedom and privacy which we can't get when using any of vpns, proxy or tor network.

OROBTC

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...

I have no idea of the capabilities of the intelligence agencies re Bitcoin as well as VPNs and proxies.

I certainly would very much welcome informed discussion of these topics.

But, whether any of BTC, VPNs, or proxies are broken to me does not make that much difference (although I would much prefer my privacy), these tools allow you to be shielded against almost ALL OTHER THREATS than the government. Except Microsoft if the rumors are true about the Win 10 Keystroke Logger....

* * *

Also, it's probably good to note that there is something called "The Firehose Problem", if "they" are collecting everything (and storing it in Utah at the data center), that is a LOT of data. I presume that only the highest threats to .gov would be examined closely...

Topic: Proof that Crime isn't Why they Hate Bitcoin. (Read 1044 times)