Topic: Proposal Ethereum as the layer 2 to Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 619 times)

OP, you can build on Bitcoin anything you want, no matter how good or stupid, as long as it doesn't alter, or needs to alter the consensus layer.

I've already proposed a similar system in the past, I even developed it to the point of being to make card payments in Bitcoin. I almost had it ready for demo at Coinfest 2016 and the general concensus (on here at least at the time) was that Bitcoin is fine as it is and there's little need for a faster confirmation time. I'm still developing for Bitcoin but my focus has moved onto a new payment system based on Ethereum tokens (and not another coin with an ICO to raise funds)

I don't think so. If the blockchain can fail (meaning if an invalid block generated. It will die for those who consider it invalid). And it requires a single entity to control the chain. It's obviously centralized. But some applications don't require it to be open and public. This doesn't mean it should be permission based.
Immutability can help multiple users make sure either blockchain will fail or confirmation goes through. Still the main chain (bitcoin) can re-org and change the history of private chain.

Edit:
By this i meant. "This doesn't mean it should be permission based." => Still that blockchain can use bitcoin's code as Its base.

By private blockchain i mean, The ownership is private. It doesn't prevent the blockchain to get validated and used by other users.

Private blockchains and immutability are exclusive, you can't have both. Ethereum's DAO debacle is a prime example of what happens to immutability when certain parties have too much power within an ecosystem.

Rootstock (now RSK) seems to offer what you need. It's a merge-mined federated Bitcoin sidechain, compatible to Ethereum. Check www.rsk.co

Prominent use-case of Ethereum is to create a new currency with new rules like ICO's. Decentralization is a myth remained in most discussions.

There's need for two important features in these currencies.

1. All participants should be able to validate the integrity of the ledger.
2. Ledger should be resistant to changes. Ultimate goal = immutable ledger

Instead of Ethereum I like the idea of each currency have their own blockchain with the above features.
In example of ICO's. All of them have issuer (owner). So it being public (mining/staking based) Doesn't make sense.
Also maintaining staking/mining based consensus is expensive.
Running a privately owned blockchain is the way to go.  And in this thread i did talk about how we can implement this feature in bitcoin in such a way to it would be very efficient to run (less expensive).
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/private-blockchains-connected-to-bitcoins-pow-5120606

Your proposal assumes that scaling of Ethereum is a done deal. However Buterin's declaration about 100000 transactions per second is not quite enough, proofs are needed as well.

I think there is no need.

It's possible to implement smartcontracts and some others ethereum capabilities to bitcoin
Not all of ethereum capabilities, but the most important ones.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying but... I don't think that this is how any of this works. You can't just graft one blockchain onto another to get the best of both worlds. Especially not in the way described.

If you're really interested in how to get separate blockchains to benefit from one another look into atomic cross chain swaps of what the future of cryptocurrency may entail.

bitcoin as a decentralized and immutable cryptocurrency does not really math with others that are both centralized and mutable so you can't really combine it with something like ethereum. besides if smart contracts is all you want, we already have second layers that can do that in a lot better manner. check out RootStock for instance.

Imagine an entity that would take btc into a multi sig wallet and then wrap it onto eth. The idea might seem unneeded but think about what it would enable. Companies could use the btc network for high value transfers or storage but otherwise most would be kept in the wrapped state. We then port all btc services to running on eth and just using btc chain for issuance. This allows us to have both a highly flexible environment for dapps and a way to reduce the verification needed and block size for btc. We immediately allow Bitcoin access to the world's biggest platform for the world's most decentralised currency. This would make eth the l2 for btc. Btc transactions would go from 10m to 15s and we can utilize projects like plasma and zk rollup for instant micro transactions or fully anonymous btc transactions. This would require no hard fork to btc at all. The funds for the tokn issuance and holding btc could be a multisig spread through large players in the space through a consortium with players such as  Coinbase, Kraken or even governments being part to help them to have a reason to embrace blockchain and cryptocurrency by letting them feel like they have a say without giving up power to them. We can make Bitcoin be the best currency on top of the best platform with the most choice.