Proposal for Alternative Decimal Notation for Crypto Currencies

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

(LOL. Thanks vingaard for your imaginative feedback)

If this is any consolation to the community, I am also almost done on the subject Grin

I like to bring wild ideas to the table... sometime it turns into something good, sometimes not.

Might be one of these cases going nowhere.

At least the thread did not degenerate in a "my coin needs less zeros than yours" battle Cheesy

vingaard

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1011

Quote from: DrGoose on August 02, 2013, 05:06:57 AM

Quote from: Aaed on August 02, 2013, 04:54:35 AM

Your right captain.

But when I see this kind of page: http://middlecoin.com/
I still think something could be done to make it easier/faster to read.

@DrGoose
1.5|98 = 1.0000098
It makes me feel I got 1.5 coin but I actually have only 1.0

.
When you read fast, it could be disappointing.

I agree... it is just confusing for >= 1

What if we use instead the ASCII of small numbers in a circle (or parenthesis for older 7-bits ASCII)?

0.013 -> (1)13 -> ①13 0.0013 -> (2)13 -> ②13 1.0013 -> 1.(2)13 -> 1.②13

Where (n) would still read as "n zeros"

I like the graphic version that simply feel like a "zero" with a multiplier inside.

Just food for thought.

And all this is easier than scientific notation?... OMG!!!

Then I propose other nomenclature...

You have to put Grin

if you have zeros in the left side of the comma (because they are high numbers and those numbers make me happy)

You have to put Angry

if you have zeros in the right side of the comma (because they are lower numbers and those numbers make me unhappy)

and after I propose to use the roman numbers... so... for example:

17000 --> XVII III

0.0005 --> V III

Definitly I think it would be easier for everyone if all people try to use them

(I promise this is my last participation in this post)

Be happy with your system...

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: Aaed on August 02, 2013, 04:54:35 AM

Your right captain.

But when I see this kind of page: http://middlecoin.com/
I still think something could be done to make it easier/faster to read.

@DrGoose
1.5|98 = 1.0000098
It makes me feel I got 1.5 coin but I actually have only 1.0

.
When you read fast, it could be disappointing.

I agree... it is just confusing for >= 1

What if we use instead the ASCII of small numbers in a circle (or parenthesis for older 7-bits ASCII)?

0.013 -> (1)13 -> ①13 0.0013 -> (2)13 -> ②13 1.0013 -> 1.(2)13 -> 1.②13

Where (n) would still read as "n zeros"

I like the graphic version that simply feel like a "zero" with a multiplier inside.

Just food for thought.

Aaed

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

You're right captain.

But when I see this kind of page: http://middlecoin.com/
I still think something could be done to make it easier/faster to read.

@DrGoose
1.5|98 = 1.0000098
It makes me feel I got 1.5 coin but I actually have only 1.0

.
When you read fast, it could be disappointing.

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: Aaed on August 02, 2013, 04:02:40 AM

I like the idea but I gave it a try and it's not so obvious to do the do basic math quickly with it...

I'm also a bit confused.
You say 3|13 is 0.00013
Then digitalindustry says |13 is like 1|13 which should be 0.013?
So what's 0.13 now?

And if you get 1.0098 coins (1 coin + 2|98), how do you write it in a short way?

Thanks for giving it some thought.

I will just cover the OP proposal here. digitalindustry proposal differ a bit and I would prefer each to be discuss in their own thread to avoid confusion.

0.13 -> 0|13 (but I would just use 0.13 on a website) 0.013 -> 1|13 0.0013 -> 2|13
and so on...

1.0098 -> 1.2|98 (read as-is: 1 dot 2 zeros 98) but frankly I would not use a "point zero notation" for 1 and above. Might be too much to digest.

For CoinBuzz:
320.0000012 -> 320.5|12 (320 dot 5 zeros 12). Working but not pretty.

captainfuture

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

no, not really.

how u would write with m and k this?
123456789,123456789 ?

i would write
123 456 789,123 456 789

Aaed

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: captainfuture on August 02, 2013, 04:05:36 AM

do u use scientific notations with big numbers?
NO
u write 1 000 000 000

I do no agree with that. We usually use k's or m's (1 000 = 1k) to make it easier don't we?

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: captainfuture on August 02, 2013, 04:05:36 AM

just write 0.000 013
and we dont need this notifications

do u use scientific notations with big numbers?
NO
u write 1 000 000 000

so why we need that on small numbers?

You might be right, adding spaces might be just enough to solve the readability issue. As a bonus, it facilitate to see the milli/micro boundaries.

CoinBuzz

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

While i think scientific notation needs some mental on-the-fly calculation to understand that number, your notation is easier.

But one question:

What about this number 320.0000012 ?
How Someone should write it with your notation?

captainfuture

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

just write 0.000 013
and we dont need this notifications

do u use scientific notations with big numbers?
NO
u write 1 000 000 000

so why we need that on small numbers?

Aaed

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

I like the idea but I gave it a try and it's not so obvious to do the do basic math quickly with it...

I'm also a bit confused.
You say 3|13 is 0.00013
Then digitalindustry says |13 is like 1|13 which should be 0.013?
So what's 0.13 now?

And if you get 1.0098 coins (1 coin + 2|98), how do you write it in a short way?

digitalindustry

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

‘Try to be nice’

Quote from: DrGoose on August 02, 2013, 03:41:53 AM

Quote from: bitx64 on August 02, 2013, 02:13:41 AM

This all seems ok on first glance, but now try to do some very basic math, such as addition and subtraction.
Quick what's 5|221 + 3|5?

Not intended for doing quick mental math... the intent is to shorten the representation on a web page and get the "order of magnitude" at a first glance.

When needed, it is very easy to convert to decimal. You do not need to count with your fingers the 5 zeroes on the web page (or was it 6?) to enter 5 zeroes on a calculator.

+1 and of course , those that wish to continue using scientific or good old 5 or 6 zeros 00000, keep doing that .

As I said it's easy to see the instance where it's just

z4 z5 z7 z8

Or

The good Drs

|5 |6 |3 |7

As this would represent

1z4 1z5 1z7 1z8

Or the like on the Drs method , ...

as when pricing something the nominal objective is to make a profit and the owner would likely just round up to the nearest 1 along the closest agreed market line.

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: bitx64 on August 02, 2013, 02:13:41 AM

This all seems ok on first glance, but now try to do some very basic math, such as addition and subtraction.
Quick what's 5|221 + 3|5?

Not intended for doing quick mental math... the intent is to shorten the representation on a web page and get the "order of magnitude" at a first glance.

When needed, it is very easy to convert to decimal. You do not need to count with your fingers the 5 zeros on the web page (or was it 6?) to enter 5 zeros on a calculator.

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: n4ru on August 02, 2013, 01:31:21 AM

Stop.

Both of you just reinvented scientific notation.

Sort of... but it is more like a simple run-length encoding compression of the zeros adapted to a specific purpose.

0.00000012 Coins

is abbreviated to

6|12 Coins

I doubt people prefer reading/typing/buying something like:

1.2e-7 Coins

Case in point, scientific notation is widely known, yet, it is not used by web sites to solve the problem stated in the OP.

Sometimes reinvention is good
===================
Why twitter did not use URLs for their user accounts? It is because they needed something shorter to keep the tweet practical. They were just reinventing the URLs for their specific purpose and it did end up well. Now the meaning of "@someone" or "#subject" is widely understood, but was a total mystery ~7 years ago.

Asking the mobile generation to deal with a bunch of hallucinating zeros or the scientific notation might be an obstacle (IMHO).

bitx64

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

This all seems ok on first glance, but now try to do some very basic math, such as addition and subtraction.
Quick what's 5|221 + 3|5?

n4ru

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: digitalindustry on August 01, 2013, 11:31:46 PM

Quote from: DrGoose on August 01, 2013, 11:02:01 PM

Quote from: AgentME on August 01, 2013, 10:41:23 PM

Why make up a notation when scientific notation already exists and is well understood by everyone?

I had the same question before coming up with this proposal, and... it did raise another question:

if scientific notation is the solution, then why it is not already in use by crypto exchanges and web sites etc...?

It seems that scientific notation might not come natural to most.

===

Wild Guess: The negative sign in the scientific notation might also be a turn off when used in a currency value... people have feelings Wink

Dr goose

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/introducing-the-digitalindustry-one-z-zero-pricing-standard-1z0-264143

Is this one of those strange cosmic entanglements , or , did I see the future and take your idea ?

If so I apologise for the latter , I see a good idea in the future I like to bring it forward. Well back , actually sideways .

I like the " people have feelings " .

Stop.

Both of you just reinvented scientific notation.

dudeami

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: vingaard on August 02, 2013, 12:41:48 AM

I can't understand people re-invented what it is already invented (Scientific Notation)...

So... now I want to propose another change... I will measure the longitude in carrots instead of meters and the weight in elephants instead of kg... welcome to a World without I.S. (International System of units)!!!

Ahhh... and I propose to change all binary system by a ternary numeral system because of the holy trinity.

Anyway... good luck with your proposal, but I will not use it (I like the old fashion scientific notation) Wink

Edit: I agree with you, I'm still upset the US uses inches and pounds, but this won't change soon. Also, teaching people scientific notation (if they didn't learn it in school already) would help everywhere, not just with cryptocurrency. Making some new notation will also make new comers feel confused, as it might deter them if they see a bunch of 6|4 or 4z6 around not.

digitalindustry

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

‘Try to be nice’

Quote from: DrGoose on August 02, 2013, 01:01:54 AM

Quote from: vingaard on August 02, 2013, 12:41:48 AM

...
Anyway... good luck with your proposal, but I will not use it (I like the old fashion scientific notation) Wink

Thanks for the feedback.

It is obviously not intended as a general purpose replacement to the decimal and scientific notation.

Nobody use the scientific notation either in the context of our problem with lengthy decimal numbers, yet everyone knows about scientific notation... so something else might have a shot at it... but it will need all the luck you have to offer

DR Goose i like your proposal - i expect a merger of the two - so in this respect i think you have added invaluably and essentially to the information stream in this regard .

perhaps more so than I the common future thief .

DrGoose

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

Quote from: vingaard on August 02, 2013, 12:41:48 AM

...
Anyway... good luck with your proposal, but I will not use it (I like the old fashion scientific notation) Wink

Thanks for the feedback.

It is obviously not intended as a general purpose replacement to the decimal and scientific notation.

Nobody use the scientific notation in the context of crypto currency, yet everyone knows about scientific notation... so something else might have a shot at it... but it will need all the luck you have to offer

vingaard

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1011

I can't understand people re-invented what it is already invented (Scientific Notation)...

So... now I want to propose another change... I will measure the longitude in carrots instead of meters and the weight in elephants instead of kg... welcome to a World without I.S. (International System of units)!!!

Ahhh... and I propose to change all binary system by a ternary numeral system because of the holy trinity.

Anyway... good luck with your proposal, but I will not use it (I like the old fashion scientific notation) Wink

Topic: Proposal for Alternative Decimal Notation for Crypto Currencies (Read 2003 times)