Proposal to change Bitcoins hashing algorithm to Scrypt-Jane - page 2.

Pangia

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Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 10:38:16 AM

ASICs shouldn't bother anyone. A rig with 4 7970 GPUs can only get barely 4 GH/s and costs over $3000. Now, for $649, you can get a rig that gives you 4.5 GH/s. ASICs are so much cheaper, with the tradeoff of having only one purpose. Also, imagine how mad CPU miners were when GPU miners came out. Must have been infuriating. Advancement of technology will always happen. ASICs just happen to be the next step past GPUs. There will be something to pass up ASICs in something like 10 years. Just watch.

Can someone please provide a link to where you can purchase an ASIC for $649?
Thanks in advance.

Insu Dra

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Just let thread die, even if sha256 would be completely broken ... we would not have the hashing power required to takeover the chain with a new algorithm.

Kyune

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If you want to explore the benefits, issues and complications that arise with using scrypt-jane as the hashing algorithm, one place to look is the two active alt-coins currently doing so:

1) Yacoin, launched May 8. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annyac-yacoin-yet-another-altcoin-start-is-now-196196 and https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annyac-yacoin-ongoing-development-206577
2) Onecoin, launched yesterday. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annonc-onecoin-cpu-only-pools-opened-200177

mgio

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Quote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2013, 09:02:54 PM

Bitcoin cannot change hashing algorithms without a 'fork' as the current miners would never go for it. But new chains could benefit from a better algorithm and then the market will decide where to move the value.

Forking the blockchain like this would kill bitcoin at this point.

I know I would take all my money out of it.

Imagine you go to a store that accepts bitcoin only to find you are using the "wrong bitcoin".

If you hate the hashing algorithm so much, create an alt coin. Oh wait, there is already Litecoin and it's dying, lol.

I'm sorry you didn't think to order an ASIC early enough but all the butthurt GPU miners in the world are not going to be able to change Bitcoin's hashing algorithm.

And if bitcoin really did start using scrypt, people would just make ASICs to mine that way.

ASICs are a GOOD thing for bitcoin.

atariguy

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Quote from: happygeorge on June 14, 2013, 07:31:19 PM

Did you guys see this related Poll?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/asic-mining-will-force-some-protocol-change-rendering-1st-genasic-miners-useles-233420

it looks most people REALLY DON'T THINK SO! 65 Votes so far... I guess that is a pretty sizeable sample for BT

The existence of the poll just shows that people don't know what they're talking about.

atariguy

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Quote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2013, 08:38:13 PM

As long as changing the hashing algorithm is on the table, we might as well attempt to find the best one!

It's not.

Luciddd

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OP is mad he can't get rich easy, now wants to kill off all the people who worked hard and spent a lot of money into ASIC mining..

Um what?

Just no, take your greedy ass some where else.

bytemaster

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fractally

Bitcoin cannot change hashing algorithms without a 'fork' as the current miners would never go for it. But new chains could benefit from a better algorithm and then the market will decide where to move the value.

ranlo

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Quote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2013, 08:38:13 PM

I started a bounty for a better hashing algorithm that will keep things more decentralized: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bounty-next-generation-proof-of-work-algorithm-1-btc-1000-bitshare-234611

As long as changing the hashing algorithm is on the table, we might as well attempt to find the best one!

I really don't see changing the algorithm happening. Especially with how old Bitcoin is and its following right now...

bytemaster

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fractally

I started a bounty for a better hashing algorithm that will keep things more decentralized: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bounty-next-generation-proof-of-work-algorithm-1-btc-1000-bitshare-234611

As long as changing the hashing algorithm is on the table, we might as well attempt to find the best one!

ranlo

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Quote from: Elwar on June 14, 2013, 08:32:43 PM

Quote from: atariguy on June 14, 2013, 05:14:45 PM

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 10:38:16 AM

ASICs shouldn't bother anyone. A rig with 4 7970 GPUs can only get barely 4 GH/s and costs over $3000. Now, for $649, you can get a rig that gives you 4.5 GH/s. ASICs are so much cheaper, with the tradeoff of having only one purpose. Also, imagine how mad CPU miners were when GPU miners came out. Must have been infuriating. Advancement of technology will always happen. ASICs just happen to be the next step past GPUs. There will be something to pass up ASICs in something like 10 years. Just watch.

Until I can order an ASIC on Amazon and have it delivered the next day and for less money than the same hashpower in a GPU, that is purely hypothetical.

But this is where it will end up. Since there is not much more that can be done technology wise, in order to be competitive it's all about producing as many as possible at the cheapest cost.

I agree. I'm positive there are companies close to getting ASIC's ready to go mass produce that aren't going public yet because they are going to mine them until their profitability goes down. It doesn't make sense to think otherwise: if you can sell something for $300 or earn $200 a day off it, it's clear which path to take.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: atariguy on June 14, 2013, 05:14:45 PM

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 10:38:16 AM

ASICs shouldn't bother anyone. A rig with 4 7970 GPUs can only get barely 4 GH/s and costs over $3000. Now, for $649, you can get a rig that gives you 4.5 GH/s. ASICs are so much cheaper, with the tradeoff of having only one purpose. Also, imagine how mad CPU miners were when GPU miners came out. Must have been infuriating. Advancement of technology will always happen. ASICs just happen to be the next step past GPUs. There will be something to pass up ASICs in something like 10 years. Just watch.

Until I can order an ASIC on Amazon and have it delivered the next day and for less money than the same hashpower in a GPU, that is purely hypothetical.

But this is where it will end up. Since there is not much more that can be done technology wise, in order to be competitive it's all about producing as many as possible at the cheapest cost.

bbulker

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Enough with the "ASICS are bad mmmkay"

happygeorge

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In da Jungle!

Did you guys see this related Poll?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/asic-mining-will-force-some-protocol-change-rendering-1st-genasic-miners-useles-233420

it looks most people REALLY DON'T THINK SO! 65 Votes so far... I guess that is a pretty sizeable sample for BT

ranlo

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Quote from: illpoet on June 14, 2013, 06:30:56 PM

i think sha256 is what will keep bitcoin the gold standard vs litecoin the silver standard. I've noticed all the 100+ alt coins that have come out of the woodwork all seem to use scrypt. i guess thats bc anyone can mine your chain for a long period of time. the asic arms race has got a little crazy, and ithink its funny how its not playing out like everyone expected (i remember when any miner i'd talk to would say "gpu mining will be completely dead by november 2012). i've already made the switch to ltc with my gpu rigs but thats mostly bc i think litecoin is undervalued. oh well i guess only time will tell.

lol, people claim BTC mining is dead on GPU's all the time. For most people, though, it's still profitable. And it's arguably the safest coin to mine as well. If the crypto scene died down, BTC would be the last to fall.

illpoet

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i think sha256 is what will keep bitcoin the gold standard vs litecoin the silver standard. I've noticed all the 100+ alt coins that have come out of the woodwork all seem to use scrypt. i guess thats bc anyone can mine your chain for a long period of time. the asic arms race has got a little crazy, and ithink its funny how its not playing out like everyone expected (i remember when any miner i'd talk to would say "gpu mining will be completely dead by november 2012). i've already made the switch to ltc with my gpu rigs but thats mostly bc i think litecoin is undervalued. oh well i guess only time will tell.

ranlo

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Quote from: hak8or on June 14, 2013, 05:42:49 PM

Quote from: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 05:30:24 PM

This right here. I think changing BTC over to scrypt-jane would cause a massive issue with the system as a whole at this point. ASIC's would then be useless, as well as all the money invested in them, and that would cause a (likely large) exodus from the currency.

This, miners who invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars would be cheated out. They are the people who are willing to invest and risk large amounts of money into the bitcoin mining world. If you alienate them like this, due to having a finite supply of such people, less people will be mining, and there will be far fewer people willing to spend time and money to design new ASIC's for the alternative mining algorithm. We will have a very small hash rate for a very long time, the efficiency of mining will be low due to using GPU's, which will make it easier for an opposing party to bring it down.

I hadn't even considered the ability of attacking BTC with 51%'s due to a change like this. That in itself is a huge red flag.

hak8or

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Quote from: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 05:30:24 PM

This right here. I think changing BTC over to scrypt-jane would cause a massive issue with the system as a whole at this point. ASIC's would then be useless, as well as all the money invested in them, and that would cause a (likely large) exodus from the currency.

This, miners who invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars would be cheated out. They are the people who are willing to invest and risk large amounts of money into the bitcoin mining world. If you alienate them like this, due to having a finite supply of such people, less people will be mining, and there will be far fewer people willing to spend time and money to design new ASIC's for the alternative mining algorithm. We will have a very small hash rate for a very long time, the efficiency of mining will be low due to using GPU's, which will make it easier for an opposing party to bring it down.

ranlo

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Quote from: phantastisch on June 14, 2013, 09:15:39 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on June 14, 2013, 09:10:22 AM

This ASIC arms race has gotten out of hand. To give Bitcoin back to the majority of Bitcoiners I hereby propose to change the hashing algorithm to Scrpyt-Jane.

PS, yes I'm serious.

Only miners have voting power. You cannot change that.

This right here. I think changing BTC over to scrypt-jane would cause a massive issue with the system as a whole at this point. ASIC's would then be useless, as well as all the money invested in them, and that would cause a (likely large) exodus from the currency.

atariguy

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Quote from: SeanArce on June 14, 2013, 11:09:22 AM

Are gpu's still worth investing in if you get free electricity?

They're still worth it today even if you have to pay for electricity, but not if you have to also pay for the PC to put them in.

Topic: Proposal to change Bitcoins hashing algorithm to Scrypt-Jane - page 2. (Read 7266 times)