***Sarcasm here******
We try and convince counterparty people to follow in the footsteps of Ripple and Bitshares
and combine the total amount of coins from CP and Mastercoin(minus jr of course)
Now with more total coins and XCP price we should see the marketcap explode higher. It worked for ripple and bitshares..
Topic: Proposal to Fork Mastercoin and Burn a portion of JR's immense stash. - page 4. (Read 10017 times)
November 30, 2014, 12:20:16 PM
November 30, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
Another idea is we could potentially move Mastercoin to a SideChain, which might be an interesting idea.
November 30, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
When you say forking do you mean to hand over the control of the project to an entirely different team ?
It's not that mastercoin is broken or something, their main problem as far as I can tell is really bad PR, and the fact that JR is bag holding and selling off his stash instead taking care of PR and building a strong community.
There were some bullshit projects published by Judith (which from what I see is the only voice mastercoin has to the public and she is just posting nonsense things like "ohh look another post by mastercoin i'm so exited".. ) , are any of them actually worth something ? When it comes to mastercoin, I don't know if it's a new dead project or a multi-million ipo..
It's not that mastercoin is broken or something, their main problem as far as I can tell is really bad PR, and the fact that JR is bag holding and selling off his stash instead taking care of PR and building a strong community.
There were some bullshit projects published by Judith (which from what I see is the only voice mastercoin has to the public and she is just posting nonsense things like "ohh look another post by mastercoin i'm so exited".. ) , are any of them actually worth something ? When it comes to mastercoin, I don't know if it's a new dead project or a multi-million ipo..
Ideally- members of the current 'team' could be convinced to come with us, although to be honest- I am totally in the dark about who is actually working on Mastercoin these days. Mostly everything is Judith in "biz-dev' and I gotta agree with you- some of those are some crazy bullshit projects. Some so bullshit it is embarrassing that they are even listed on the website as 'accomplishments'. You could start a lemonade stand at this point, take MSC and be listed in the "great things are happening with Mastercoin" updates.
But I don't want to be too harsh with Judith, at least she's reaching out and staying active. Or, well, keeping the lights on at least. If it wasn't for her we wouldn't hear anything from them.
November 30, 2014, 12:08:17 PM
I think the original problem was that they immediately had to setup the foundation and create all this bureaucratic bullshit when they should have been a small nimble coding attack force. The mastercoin foundation is too SLOW whereas Robby's team is fast and nimble.
The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.
I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?
1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0
The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.
I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?
1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0
This was my initial thought.
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2. We could convince JR or force through threat of burning our coins and leaving, to significantly reduce his own stash by self burning them to a more reasonable level.
This could also be a compromise, although I'm not sure if it would re-ignite a community enough to get people back onboard, or pull new people in. We could potentially sell this coins in a new crowdsale where the money raised would not go to JR or the existing foundation. But then of course....who does the money go to? That's a box of snakes for sure.
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3. We burn to a counterparty clone.
It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?
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4. We burn to a new (uncreated) bitcoin 2.0 platform
I'm not personally up for that, as there's enough of these going around. Although we could 'restart' mastercoin from zero.
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5. We just leave and let mastercoin die and fade to oblivioin, and accept the losses.
Well this is certainly the road we are on now, and as an original Exodus investor that would be sad to see- especially considering Maidsafe is built on Mastercoin.
November 30, 2014, 12:02:27 PM
I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead 
Sry english hope can understand my point...
Sry english hope can understand my point... Create some counterparty asset and burn msc for it ? Is that a joke ? MSC's market cap is currently at 4500BTC what would hold it's value over counterparty? (nothing..)
I mean burn Maidsafe coins and give same amount NewMaidsafe coins under counterparty.
You are forgetting that Maidsafe has a decent amount of Mastercoins, I don't think they would just throw them away if they move to CP..
But at the same time- they are as worthless as ever, and if Mastercoin dies, they have a pretty big liability on their hands anyway. They would be better off moving forward with what BTC they have and writing off the MSC coins. At the moment any possible value of MSC is basically propped up on the potential of their project.
November 30, 2014, 11:30:03 AM
I think the original problem was that they immediately had to setup the foundation and create all this bureaucratic bullshit when they should have been a small nimble coding attack force. The mastercoin foundation is too SLOW whereas Robby's team is fast and nimble.
The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.
I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?
1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0
2. We could convince JR or force through threat of burning our coins and leaving, to significantly reduce his own stash by self burning them to a more reasonable level.
3. We burn to a counterparty clone.
4. We burn to a new (uncreated) bitcoin 2.0 platform
5. We just leave and let mastercoin die and fade to oblivioin, and accept the losses.
The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.
I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?
1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0
2. We could convince JR or force through threat of burning our coins and leaving, to significantly reduce his own stash by self burning them to a more reasonable level.
3. We burn to a counterparty clone.
4. We burn to a new (uncreated) bitcoin 2.0 platform
5. We just leave and let mastercoin die and fade to oblivioin, and accept the losses.
November 30, 2014, 11:21:25 AM
crazy_rabbit thank you for bringing this up.
I kinda feel lied to by the mastercoin people. At the beginning there was much talk about things like decentralized markets, and many other wonderful features.
In fact mastercoin was to ALWAYS have the advantage over any technology as they had the first mover advantage and the WILL to change and absorb new things the competitors are doing. But the problem lies in not what they say but what they do.
JR you and the Foundation should be fired for how you have treated the protocol.
I see the only alternative we have is to jump ship by burning our mastercoins/maidsafe to another chain. This way we leave JRs coins alone to play by themsleves. And to prevent JR from jumping with, we simply ban his coins addresses.
Then maybe when serious people like CIYAM bring serious proposals they don't get ignored because JR got his feelings hurt at bitcointalk.
I kinda feel lied to by the mastercoin people. At the beginning there was much talk about things like decentralized markets, and many other wonderful features.
In fact mastercoin was to ALWAYS have the advantage over any technology as they had the first mover advantage and the WILL to change and absorb new things the competitors are doing. But the problem lies in not what they say but what they do.
JR you and the Foundation should be fired for how you have treated the protocol.
I see the only alternative we have is to jump ship by burning our mastercoins/maidsafe to another chain. This way we leave JRs coins alone to play by themsleves. And to prevent JR from jumping with, we simply ban his coins addresses.
Then maybe when serious people like CIYAM bring serious proposals they don't get ignored because JR got his feelings hurt at bitcointalk.
November 30, 2014, 11:20:39 AM
Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
FYI, that precedent has already been set by Québecoin: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annqbc-quebecoin-x11-dgw-forked-new-macwinlinux-wallets-708702
Granted that the invalidated coins were not part of the dev's personal holdings - they were earmarked for a five-stage airdrop - but there was some suspicion on that count.
November 30, 2014, 10:57:17 AM
I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead Sry english hope can understand my point...
Sry english hope can understand my point... Create some counterparty asset and burn msc for it ? Is that a joke ? MSC's market cap is currently at 4500BTC what would hold it's value over counterparty? (nothing..)
I mean burn Maidsafe coins and give same amount NewMaidsafe coins under counterparty.
You are forgetting that Maidsafe has a decent amount of Mastercoins, I don't think they would just throw them away if they move to CP..
November 30, 2014, 10:53:26 AM
I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead Sry english hope can understand my point...
Sry english hope can understand my point... Create some counterparty asset and burn msc for it ? Is that a joke ? MSC's market cap is currently at 4500BTC what would hold it's value over counterparty? (nothing..)
I mean burn Maidsafe coins and give same amount NewMaidsafe coins under counterparty.
November 30, 2014, 10:45:19 AM
I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead Sry english hope can understand my point...
Sry english hope can understand my point... Create some counterparty asset and burn msc for it ? Is that a joke ? MSC's market cap is currently at 4500BTC what would hold it's value over counterparty? (nothing..)
November 30, 2014, 10:38:35 AM
When you say forking do you mean to hand over the control of the project to an entirely different team ?
It's not that mastercoin is broken or something, their main problem as far as I can tell is really bad PR, and the fact that JR is bag holding and selling off his stash instead taking care of PR and building a strong community.
There were some bullshit projects published by Judith (which from what I see is the only voice mastercoin has to the public and she is just posting nonsense things like "ohh look another post by mastercoin i'm so exited".. ) , are any of them actually worth something ? When it comes to mastercoin, I don't know if it's a new dead project or a multi-million ipo..
It's not that mastercoin is broken or something, their main problem as far as I can tell is really bad PR, and the fact that JR is bag holding and selling off his stash instead taking care of PR and building a strong community.
There were some bullshit projects published by Judith (which from what I see is the only voice mastercoin has to the public and she is just posting nonsense things like "ohh look another post by mastercoin i'm so exited".. ) , are any of them actually worth something ? When it comes to mastercoin, I don't know if it's a new dead project or a multi-million ipo..
November 30, 2014, 10:21:35 AM
I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead Sry english hope can understand my point...
Sry english hope can understand my point... November 30, 2014, 09:52:59 AM
This seems more like desperation than a good idea. I have seen many people holding bags asking for their dead coin to be revived and/or forked but it never works that way.
Desperation/good idea, probably a mix of both. Having been hanging out here since 2011 I've seen plenty of projects be revived + forked with good and bad results. It all depends on why and how you do it.
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This was earlier in the year but I think the reason Mastercoin got a bad reputation was this big IPO and the fact that you would had made more money off Doge and NXT if you had bought those two in their first weeks.
Doge and NXT are separate things entirely and don't contribute anything of value back to Bitcoin. Mastercoin got involved to improve bitcoin, not create entirely new blockchains.
November 30, 2014, 08:41:08 AM
This seems more like desperation than a good idea. I have seen many people holding bags asking for their dead coin to be revived and/or forked but it never works that way.
This was earlier in the year but I think the reason Mastercoin got a bad reputation was this big IPO and the fact that you would had made more money off Doge and NXT if you had bought those two in their first weeks.
This was earlier in the year but I think the reason Mastercoin got a bad reputation was this big IPO and the fact that you would had made more money off Doge and NXT if you had bought those two in their first weeks.
November 30, 2014, 08:30:58 AM
Are there any other high profile projects that would suffer from leaving things as is in addition to maidsafe? The handling of mastercoin has been a lesson in what not to do but I don't know if forking to a mastercoin 2.0 is the right way especially since it appears now to be easy enough to port over to other protocols such as counterparty or etherium.
November 30, 2014, 08:14:42 AM
Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
+1I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
and you will probably lose support from the exchange (however, I don't know anything about this kind of cryptocurrencies... so may-be in your case, since it is a lot more centralized...).
I and a few others attempted to fork talkcoin because the original dev was scamming the rest of us, the exchange didn't want to side with us as it was seen as an aggressive take over.
So you might just destroy the coin and end up with something nobody supports...
True, but I think few people would argue it could get too much worse than it already is. And possibly JR might see a compromise to rebuild the community.....maybe.....
November 30, 2014, 08:12:35 AM
Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
I'm of the mind that this is the most sensible advice.
Why instigate developing further, something which has already failed?
If the options are:
fork it and burn the stash
leave it and let that stash continue to have no value
i'd say the latter is the best option. Let it die.
We can't just let it die- MaidSafe is delineated with Mastercoin. That's a big multi-million dollar project, so we can't just let that die. BUT if nothing of value happens, it does endanger Maidsafe in that once an opportunity comes along to actually get out of Maidsafe because of lack of faith in Mastercoin, then people might abandon it in droves- which would be bad for an otherwise great project.
November 30, 2014, 08:11:04 AM
Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
+1I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
and you will probably lose support from the exchange (however, I don't know anything about this kind of cryptocurrencies... so may-be in your case, since it is a lot more centralized...).
I and a few others attempted to fork talkcoin because the original dev was scamming the rest of us, the exchange didn't want to side with us as it was seen as an aggressive take over.
So you might just destroy the coin and end up with something nobody supports...
November 30, 2014, 08:05:12 AM
Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.
I'm of the mind that this is the most sensible advice.
Why instigate developing further, something which has already failed?
If the options are:
fork it and burn the stash
leave it and let that stash continue to have no value
i'd say the latter is the best option. Let it die.
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