Proposed Bill Would Give Americans $2,000 A Month Until Economy Recovers

exstasie

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Quote from: DooMAD on July 17, 2020, 09:54:41 AM

Quote from: exstasie on July 17, 2020, 04:56:25 AM

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

But there are some economic arguments suggesting that chasing growth for the sake of growth is a pointless exercise.

Ultimately, we have to ask which is of greater importance:

That some big, arbitrary number is slightly bigger than it was last year?
Or that the economy actually serves the purpose of supporting the people and businesses within that economy?

Output is directly related to wage levels, unemployment levels. Stagnant growth means falling wages, rising unemployment, etc. Not exactly an ideal situation for the population. Real wages in Japan are down 13% since 1997, if you can believe that. That's jaw dropping to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)#Effects

I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about Austrian vs. Keynesian economics here. That requires a much deeper dive. I'm just talking about the immediate economic effects of a "lost decade" scenario.

DooMAD

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Quote from: exstasie on July 17, 2020, 04:56:25 AM

Quote from: abhiseshakana on July 15, 2020, 09:44:46 AM

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties.

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

But there are some economic arguments suggesting that chasing growth for the sake of growth is a pointless exercise.

Ultimately, we have to ask which is of greater importance:

That some big, arbitrary number is slightly bigger than it was last year?
Or that the economy actually serves the purpose of supporting the people and businesses within that economy?

exstasie

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Quote from: abhiseshakana on July 15, 2020, 09:44:46 AM

Quote from: exstasie on July 14, 2020, 02:21:49 AM

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties.

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

Vod

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UBI is the future, but I don't believe governments can afford it for a billion people in America yet. :/

Governments are still reliant on blanket taxes - so any payments would be temporary. To move to permanent UBI, the government needs to move to service fees and profit - make the people who USE the services pay for them (roads, school, etc).

Casdinyard

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That was good to hear that a proposed bill to give out $2,000 as financial assistance for people affected by covid-19 pandemic will be implemented once it is passed as a bill. But that would still undergo a long term of process because knowing America to have the most number of cases which means most number of affected people as well and that only means many people are in need to be assisted by $2,000 for the next few months until their economy recovers. That was good to hear but seems impossible to make happen especially when it comes to funds. Imagine a lot of people might be just dependent on that financial aid because a lot of people are jobless as of the moment because of the implementing community quarantine.

The idea was good but the implementation seems to be impossible. Well, if there would be amendment with regards to the content of the proposed bill which would target only those that are directly affected and poorest of the poor, it might be possible to narrow down the number of people that is needed to be given by the financial assistance just like what our government did in our country. If that's the case, maybe it could be possible.

btc78

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Quote from: thesmallgod on July 14, 2020, 07:02:09 AM

Considering the numbers of people soliciting for money on gofundme in recent time to feed their family, I do not see anything wrong with it and I'm very sure the united state is abreast and capable of handling the cons of printing fiat to mitigate the effect of this global pandemic. If this go through, it could be another crypto rally as it has been noticed before that a lot of Americans use their stimulus package to buy crypto specifically on coinbase

Sure it is, because America is the most devastated country today as the infections are growing and the death toll continues to rise.

So basically people of US need funds to support their living until the pandemic totally stops and the job back to normal.

But of course they must check if the one who claims are legit and not just those people who's living in the street because of drug addictions .

yhiaali3

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I heard that the US government was giving 1,000$ at the beginning of the spread of the Corona virus, and now they have increased this aid to 2,000$. This sounds good at first sight, but as unemployment, turmoil, and the deterioration of the American economy increase, will the US government be able to pay more of this aid to the increasing numbers of unemployed?
Another matter, as the number of the unemployed increases, the American economy will stop slowly and the resources of the state treasury will be greatly reduced. Will the American government be able to continue to do so for a long time?

Argoo

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Quote from: mu_enrico on April 16, 2020, 12:49:09 PM

Well, whether this $2,000 will be granted or not, the $2.2 trillion CARES Act is still there. It's our opportunity to see if the mainstream economists are correct about printing money as a means to avoid recession/depression. The logic should be simple, that is the government must pay its debt. They may or may not get away with this recession, but this decision will backfire them at some point in the future, except if people will be so rich so that they can pay high taxes.

Of course, for the US government to print a few trillion dollars is not a big deal. All the same, their dollars, without any collateral, diverge around the world and are even in demand. If other states do this, inflation will quickly ruin their economies. Therefore, Americans are now in a more privileged position.

abhiseshakana

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Quote from: exstasie on July 14, 2020, 02:21:49 AM

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties. Besides that, despite the large American debt, the multistreaming income is large and the foreign exchange reserves are still large. Also at a time like this it is necessary to closely observe what the real money owner does, like Warren Buffet when Berkshire Hathaway sold the majority of his shares in Q1 and chose to hold cash (which is outside the habits of those who hold shares for a long time).

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/69-trillion-of-world-debt-in-one-infographic/

plvbob0070

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But the question is, until when? We never know when will their economy recovers since the U.S. is highly affected by the pandemic with over 3 million confirmed cases. Perhaps, the government can easily give $2,000 financial assistance per month but how long would it last?

I'm not against helping their citizens knowing that a lot of people already lost their jobs because of this virus. Our government also did this kind of help, but not until now. Also, if they would take action on implementing strict protocols to protect their people, they can decrease the number of cases. Giving financial aid is a good move, but working on handling the pandemic to flatten the curve is a better action while there is still no vaccine.

STT

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The virus will carry on for the rest of this year at least I think, the danger is not known whether it mutates further and poses an annual reoccurring event where a constant threat to all could be possible. THats the worst outcome but the best is a vaccine available to some by year end and only next year is maybe for most.

The 2k a month on top of other debt means more QE, it could be a bigger threat to produce more debt and take that stance rather then just modifying all business to reduce contact which is the only real cure for now.

Taskford

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If the government it then why not? it can help their citizen to not struggle especially majority lose their job by this pandemic and I really had a confidence that America can afford it since they are rich country and I'm sure they have reserves for this kind of situation.

Let's hope this pandemic will end soonest so that we can end up the misery of the people who got affected by the crisis.

thesmallgod

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Considering the numbers of people soliciting for money on gofundme in recent time to feed their family, I do not see anything wrong with it and I'm very sure the united state is abreast and capable of handling the cons of printing fiat to mitigate the effect of this global pandemic. If this go through, it could be another crypto rally as it has been noticed before that a lot of Americans use their stimulus package to buy crypto specifically on coinbase

cheezcarls

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I would like to share on what is happening on my country (The Philippines) when it comes for the government to provide assistance to the low-income households. Since the start of the lockdown (or Enhanced Community Quarantine or ECQ in short), the government provided financial assistance to the low-income households of just between $120 to $160 per month, which is only good for basic needs as a third-world country.

But now that our city have lesser restrictions and slowly recovering, there’s no need for us to receive financial assistance (unless if circumstances happen like virus getting out of control, we could get another financial assistance again).

I’m just surprised that since the start of the COVID-19 restrictions in the country, the American government hasn’t provided $2,000 financial assistance to their citizens (which is still under consideration) as their businesses and jobs are affected by the pandemic.

Restarting the economy is the only way to get back on track provided that the citizens must adhere to the minimum health standards such as face masks, proper hygiene, social distancing, etc. Look at New Zealand right now, they’ve succeeded in controlling the virus and social distancing has been lifted after no more new cases for so many weeks.

exstasie

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Quote from: hunter7519 on July 12, 2020, 08:14:12 AM

The proposal is still under consideration, but I strongly doubt it will happen.

Then again, I strongly doubted the initial $1200 payment was going to happen, but it totally did.

It’s not as bad an idea as it seems at first appearance. It’s expensive, sure, but this is effectively a world war (it will kill a world war’s worth of people and every nation is fighting the enemy together, because we all collectively have no choice), so the appropriate question is not “is this more expensive than your average Tuesday” but more “is this more expensive than World War II was?”

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

Quote from: hunter7519 on July 12, 2020, 08:14:12 AM

It seems reasonably obvious to me that if you order people not to work, you must also provide them a way to feed their families.

You cannot do one without the other or there will be riots, and not without justification.

Well that's why the Republicans are pushing for incentives on the supply side like a back-to-work bonus, payroll tax cuts, etc. They can't keep doling out entitlements and preaching fiscal responsibility with a straight face.

The ongoing payment thing will never pass the Senate. I think we'll see a compromise in the form of another $1,200 payment, just like the first one. That'll be it until and unless things reach crisis levels again.

Salauddin1994

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It is almost impossible for Americans to pay 2,000 a month until the economy recovers, given that each country's economy is currently in a state of disarray. Since most of the countries in the world trade in dollars. That is why America is dominating all other countries economically. He is imposing economic sanctions on any country if he wants. It is a tool of America's economic warfare, through which he cripples his disliked country. The Iranian country of Persia is the latest victim of the sanctions.

Yatsan

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It seems like that bill will still undergo a very long process knowing USA, they have lots of bills and cases that are still hanging so the possibility of that bill to pass is still too far to happen and it might take long that the pandemic was already over it is still remain a proposed bill. Added by the fact that it is quite impossible to fund $2,000 to the beneficiaries affected by the pandemic until the economy recovers.

We all know that all affected countries around the globe are undergoing financial crisis and that was all because of economic declination brought by this covid-19 pandemic. $2,000 was already a big amount and USA was a real big country that it would take tons of money to fund all the Americans until such time that the economy will recover. If that proposed bill will pass, it will be a great help for the people but still the big question is how could it be possible to fund that amount? and when will the proposed bill will be passed as a bill? It is still an underlying question.

But actually such thing of providing financial aid to those who are directly affected by the pandemic have already been done here in the country where I reside. I just don't know if USA can carry out doing the same thing being a country having a big population.

justdimin

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In USA? Are you guys crazy? Whoever put this out as a bill has literally no idea who controls the senate and doesn't have a clue about republicans and corporate democrats. I mean this is the type of thing that wouldn't pass but not only wouldn't pass, but would require a lot of work to be in even voting. They only allowed that 1.200 check once and that was with giving out hundreds of billions of dollars in bail out to companies and gave this 1.2k small amount to each person so they wouldn't care about the huge bail out to companies.

Now you are telling us that government should give 2k and help out people who are in dire need of it? They would give out 10 trillion dollars to banks and their buddy companies before they give 100 billion to people who need money, that is how terrible politicians are.

DooMAD

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Quote from: dejuan on July 13, 2020, 07:48:14 AM

the fact it is discussed shows craziness of US

Except it's not crazy in the slightest. Other countries actually went ahead and implemented similar schemes. Just look at their neighbours to the north as an example. Arguably, their economy is doing much better than the US as a result.

The crazy part is where so many people equate such policies with Communism because they are so heavily indoctrinated to believe such stupid things.

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Quote from: fiulpro on July 13, 2020, 07:34:19 AM

There is a reason why its still proposed and not yet evaluated and in action , there is no way that everyone can receive 2000$ per month till the economy recovers. When they don't even have enough to buy masks and PPE for the Frontline workers?

I think they have the budget to buy those essentials like face mask, however, Trump is not recognising or if he did, it is late already as the US suffers worst than expected. He was even seen wearing face mask for the first time and it's a good sign that he is taking the matter seriously now.

Quote from: fiulpro on July 13, 2020, 07:34:19 AM

This is absurd and they are mocking the whole system itself . We don't have any idea when this corona pandemic will subside but we do know one thing and that is *it is not going anywhere for a year or two* , how do they expect to pay 2000$ per person , per month for millions of them out there ? This is what a scam means .
They would either burn their whole economy down or make false promises and become the laughing stock of the whole nation , both of them is pretty sad . Don't give people false promises when you are just cooking up a recipe for self destruction of the economy yourself.

But I would agree that $2K is not sustainable in the long run specially if there is no cure in the next 1-2 years.

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