i saw another topic by "Baryom" the owner of Bitsler casino who was talking about the same thing. there were some pretty good arguments and also some solutions there. you may want to take a look at that topic.
edit: here is the link to that topic i was talking about if anyone was interested: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitsler-invest-1787647
Topic: Provably Fair for investors - page 2. (Read 715 times)
You guys are really missing the point, there's no way to detect such scam, some operators might have been doing it for some time and no one even suspected a thing. For example. casino is doing really well, lets say 10% per month, and then owner decides to rob his investors, so he creates some fake wins, but he takes only half of the monthly profit, so investors still have 5% and are quite happy with it. Also casino owners could lure investors with a big promised profit share percentage, like 80-90%, but then constantly create fake wins to effectively lower it to something like 60-70%.
Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
On the first place, Gambling never get fair to us, because it is gambling, gambling only needs money and doesn't care whether we have lost so much bitcoin on them, they don't care as long as they earn money from every player that gambles to them. But behind in all of this, we still risk our bitcoin hoping that it would grow and we could make profit when we are going to invest to a gambling site, maybe what you have said is true that Gambling sites are just faking the players win so that they could steal the investors funds, but we don't have any proofs about it.
So, if we are suspecting that the gambling sites are doing this to us every time that we invest to them, then the only option that we have to avoid such thing is not to invest to them anymore, because there is no more reason for us to invest since they are just cheating on us, and just using our money for their own good, and it is not fair.
Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
Possible, but what do casino operators gain for these acts? This will just lost a lot of investors if they pull this kind of scheme. I don't know how to protect one's investor, but it is the risk that they take when they put money on gambling sites.
Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
It is indeed possible but as an investor myself i don't think about this because before i invest i already know every risk that my investment can go. Besides you will not invest in a site that you don't trust.
Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
Theres a possibility that casino owners would do such act because investors doesnt really have access on those seeds on each roll and possibilities of making fake accounts and winnings would really be there but i think they wont do such act because if they do that thing investors would lost its trust to the house and with that it makes a bad reputation and other potential investors wont invest on your site because some investors do lose their investment. The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.
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