Provably Fair Question | Bitcointalksearch.org

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: jamyr on June 11, 2021, 04:24:21 PM

Say a diceGame system requires you to input a client seed before it decide what serverhash it will pair with the client id you provided. Is it mere stupidity to be suspicious the site doesn't let you give them the client seed while they show a hash of their serverseed?

If a casino forces you to give them the raw client seed prior to them providing the hash of the server seed, they have the potential to calculate a server seed based on their desired outcome.

The above is a very serious problem if it does not allow you to chose a "high" or "low" outcome -- assuming a zero house edge, a gambler cannot choose between above 90 (for a high), or below 10 (for a low) (assuming a range out possible outcomes being between 0 and 100), on a 10x bet. If a gambler must bet that a roll will be above a threshold, for example, the casino can choose a seed in which the distribution of outcomes is below expected outcomes for the first n bets.

If a gambler has the option to choose between betting if the outcome will be above or below a threshold, and the gambler bets above or below on a truly random basis that is independent of his seed, the game will remain provably fair, however, it will result in bad optics, because most gamblers will not be truly random in their betting choices. If a casino is intending on being fair to gamblers, it will cost them nothing to disclose the server seed hash in advance, and it will eliminate a point of contraversary.

jamyr

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Quote from: Saint-loup on June 11, 2021, 05:29:22 PM

LOL Betking is really doing that? This is not how the provably fair scheme should work because the house can try several sever seeds until finding one giving a losing result with the player seed(and then hashing it and displaying it)

Yes it may look as simple as that but it is a little more complicated, players can change their payout and target etc.,, so very complicated, but since the site is running a bonus of total $35 but have to wager(80X) it in a specific multiplier which is (2X).

Quote from: fearfulcalm on June 11, 2021, 06:46:34 PM

they need to let you change your client seed anytime you want... and give you serverhash before and don't change it
in other cases, it can be manipulated by serverside

I'm not saying he did, but to leave a room for even more doubt would make him lose the one thing he have left, which is the fairness of his game.

Quote from: fromEmailWithDean

Also note that the provably fair dialog shows next hash now and was changed the other night. I had already said to you I was going to change it.

khaled0111

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In general and to avoid suspicion, the casino should give you the hash of the server seed before you enter your seed (client seed) as there is no valid reason preventing them from doing this.
If they don't then it's a red flag but doesn't necessarily mean they can cheat or manipulate the results in their favor. It depends on many other factors such as how their provably fair system works, how the game results are generated and the game it self.
In Dice games, for example, the casino doesn't know which multiplier you will choose and whether you are going to choose roll over or roll under. So even if they can determine the game result there is no guarantee it's going to be in their favor. The server seed hash must be visible before the game round begins, though

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: livingfree on June 11, 2021, 09:48:53 PM

Quote from: janggernaut on June 11, 2021, 06:07:18 PM

Does betking already back now? I knew it betking will be back as dean ever said on here long time ago betking will be back later but he didn't give any specific time when it will be re-launched.

I've checked the website and the data that appears there seems to be new and likely a test.

I can't tell those rollers are for real or they're just demographics that's made to test for their upcoming relaunch.

it seems only a test as it shows the player is rainbot. now, they are trying to get back but they should have used another domain name. that betking.io's reputation has been tarnished already. not a very good idea to just use the same name. but anyway, at least old players will be reminded about how they managed this site before. can they redeem themselves in this upcoming re-launch?
and also, i think this should be moved to gambling discussion board ?

Maus0728

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Quote from: jamyr on June 11, 2021, 05:18:53 PM

If you think this is suspicious enough, then you might want to avoid Betking.io not because of investment-related feedbacks but
because it require you to edit and save your clientseed before you are given a hash of the serverseed.

Based on my understanding of verifying seeds! I think this is kind of a red flag because technically the server seed is generated by their server and is hashed using the SHA-256 algorithm before it will be given to their user and before the player changed or input his "Client seed."

There is even a previous scam accusation with betking.
[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/betkingio-relaunch-uncensored-betking-scam-thread-5287553

livingfree

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Quote from: janggernaut on June 11, 2021, 06:07:18 PM

Does betking already back now? I knew it betking will be back as dean ever said on here long time ago betking will be back later but he didn't give any specific time when it will be re-launched.

I've checked the website and the data that appears there seems to be new and likely a test.

I can't tell those rollers are for real or they're just demographics that's made to test for their upcoming relaunch.

fearfulcalm

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Quote from: jamyr on June 11, 2021, 04:24:21 PM

Say a diceGame system requires you to input a client seed before it decide what serverhash it will pair with the client id you provided. Is it mere stupidity to be suspicious the site doesn't let you give them the client seed while they show a hash of their serverseed?

they need to let you change your client seed anytime you want... and give you serverhash before and don't change it
in other cases, it can be manipulated by serverside

janggernaut

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Does betking already back now? I knew it betking will be back as dean ever said on here long time ago betking will be back later but he didn't give any specific time when it will be re-launched.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: jamyr on June 11, 2021, 05:18:53 PM

If you think this is suspicious enough, then you might want to avoid Betking.io not because of investment-related feedbacks but
because it require you to edit and save your clientseed before you are given a hash of the serverseed.

LOL Betking is really doing that? This is not how the provably fair scheme should work because the house can try several sever seeds until finding one giving a losing result with the player seed(and then hashing it and displaying it)

jamyr

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If you think this is suspicious enough, then you might want to avoid Betking.io not because of investment-related feedbacks but
because it require you to edit and save your clientseed before you are given a hash of the serverseed.

Quote

. .
Also note that the provably fair dialog shows next hash now and was changed the other night. I had already said to you I was going to change it.

jamyr

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<------

Say a diceGame system requires you to input a client seed before it decide what serverhash it will pair with the client id you provided. Is it mere stupidity to be suspicious the site doesn't let you give them the client seed while they show a hash of their serverseed?

Topic: Provably Fair Question (Read 178 times)