Hello, Im the Dev for No Limit Coin (NLC2) a cryptocurrency and we have announced we are launching a no-rake online poker platform. After year 1, we will implement a $1 per month sub fee. So we want to build a large base for this and you get to play for free any level. All we look for is you use the coin. Even private tables will be avail. USA and restricted countries will not have buy in games, but there will be free rolls. USA will have private games with a no rake model for play chips. Outside the USA and restricted countries will have no rake NLC2 buy in for micro to big limits. Cash, sit and go and tourneys. Johnny Chan is our spokesperson. Check out his commercial. https://youtu.be/JJtDXS8iuyo. The website is nolimitcoinpoker.com
On collusion we will have a KYC process for all players, this means that any game over $1 buy in will require you to register with an ID and a picture of you holding that ID. This is to eliminate collusion and know you are playing with a real person. So we tried to focus on the 2 main issues with online poker. Rake and collusion. I will check back to see any comments.
We also have a post related to this in the NLC2 blog.
Topic: Provably verified in online Poker! Is it possible? (Read 449 times)
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
There should be. It's just a matter of code, and likely any creative developer would be able to make one. There are so much possibilities in coding anyway, so I think it is 100% possible. The thing is that I don't think anyone would want to fund it. Online poker doesn't really pay well for owners, since it cost a lot to operate vs the profit margins they get on the games.
it's been proven to be honest.
because there they use a coding system that only certain people can make it all transparent,
because every card distribution also has its own sign,
and if indeed you are smart you can certainly know in every turn that goes on.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
There should be. It's just a matter of code, and likely any creative developer would be able to make one. There are so much possibilities in coding anyway, so I think it is 100% possible. The thing is that I don't think anyone would want to fund it. Online poker doesn't really pay well for owners, since it cost a lot to operate vs the profit margins they get on the games.
I've been playing online poker a very long time and I don't care what site I'm playing at or how transparent their RNG might be, when I go through streaks of unfavorable variance, there is always something in the back of my mind that says, "Rigged!" Then the tilt syndrome sets in and that distrust affects my decision making processes....so ---> if there were a means to insure the integrity of the game as a whole, I think that would be a good thing.
There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
I've been playing online poker a very long time and I don't care what site I'm playing at or how transparent their RNG might be, when I go through streaks of unfavorable variance, there is always something in the back of my mind that says, "Rigged!" Then the tilt syndrome sets in and that distrust affects my decision making processes....so ---> if there were a means to insure the integrity of the game as a whole, I think that would be a good thing.
There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
The reality may be that all professionals who are very few in gambling win at the expense of beginners and incompetent players. It seems to me that this has always been and will be so. There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
I've been playing online poker a very long time and I don't care what site I'm playing at or how transparent their RNG might be, when I go through streaks of unfavorable variance, there is always something in the back of my mind that says, "Rigged!" Then the tilt syndrome sets in and that distrust affects my decision making processes....so ---> if there were a means to insure the integrity of the game as a whole, I think that would be a good thing.
There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
There's this thought going around that maybe some of these sites are "rigging" the game to skew the odds in favor of the "underdogs" in order to maintain site traffic to generate rake and fees. In the past, poker sites recognized lower traffic as the "sharks" (regs) optimized their game and became extremely skilled at finding and attacking the "bums" (recs) which discouraged and limited the amount of time recreational players spent on the poker sites....so....the thought is that skewing the odds in favor of the recs slightly would keep them in the game longer, thereby, generating more rake and fees for these sites ---> that hasn't been proven but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggest it may be true.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Yes it is.
1 - you have to "provable randomly" shuffle the cards.
2 - you have to prove the cards were handed out in that shuffled order.
But you would have to find a really smart solution to make it "simple".
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
Nope, not always player with high cards wins on the poker, Poker really needs strategy because bluff is famous trick on that game. You can win even if you have the lowest card among the player on the table as long as you know how to right betting strategy and bluff somebody. Poker is not a game of high cards only but also in mental aspects.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Yes it is.
1 - you have to "provable randomly" shuffle the cards.
2 - you have to prove the cards were handed out in that shuffled order.
But you would have to find a really smart solution to make it "simple".
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
Nope, not always player with high cards wins on the poker, Poker really needs strategy because bluff is famous trick on that game. You can win even if you have the lowest card among the player on the table as long as you know how to right betting strategy and bluff somebody. Poker is not a game of high cards only but also in mental aspects.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Yes it is.
1 - you have to "provable randomly" shuffle the cards.
2 - you have to prove the cards were handed out in that shuffled order.
But you would have to find a really smart solution to make it "simple".
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It is possible but I just don't like that idea. I want to hide my hand and show it when I want to as a part of strategy, with provably fair everyone could easily check if someone bluffed or not and use that info. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Besides, provably fair system in texas holdem is meaningless, you will never know is it "real provably fair system" or is it "rigged provably fair system", for example you get KK, your opponent gets AA and flop shows KKA - one person will go all in other will call, one will lose and house will earn big rake. You will never prove was it rigged or not, even thought it was provably fair.
These are some of the same concerns they had back in the day when poker began to become popular on television which lead to the big poker boom. A lot of players were concerned with the card cams installed on the tables; however, the advantages of the system outweighed the potential liabilities and the players adjusted their game ---> sometimes advertising a bluff is a good thing. And, if a poker client were built upon a DECENTRALIZED blockchain then there is no "house" to rig the game, right?
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It is possible but I just don't like that idea. I want to hide my hand and show it when I want to as a part of strategy, with provably fair everyone could easily check if someone bluffed or not and use that info. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Besides, provably fair system in texas holdem is meaningless, you will never know is it "real provably fair system" or is it "rigged provably fair system", for example you get KK, your opponent gets AA and flop shows KKA - one person will go all in other will call, one will lose and house will earn big rake. You will never prove was it rigged or not, even thought it was provably fair.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Then how do you intend to play the online poker if it is going to be transparent ?I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Cause the only way to make it transparent is to verify the card shuffling isn't it and except there is a very smart program that can be trusted or written to do the shuffling and rely totally on the fact that it is doing a fair job, I do not see any other way.
Cards are not fair. I play live poker and believe when I say cards are not fair. Poker sites use programs to shuffle cards, are they probably fair I believe they are because they are earning money from rake, they shuffle cards and deal to players, for some its good hand for others bad, as long as people play site is earning.
You can't judge poker just from your experience, I had bad weeks with poker, when I couldn't win nothing, if I start to talk you can't believe what stories I have to tell, but there are good weeks too. Poker is a card game and you can never trust cards, play a lot like I did and you will see miracles in live and online poker, its same for me.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If a smart contract were implemented that could record the shuffle and the distribution of cards on the blockchain then that could solve the transparency concerns. In fact, if a blockchain can be created specifically with a poker client in mind, then there are a variety of possible solutions that can be attained---> I am waiting for it ---> it will come because it's a no brainer!
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Then how do you intend to play the online poker if it is going to be transparent ?I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Cause the only way to make it transparent is to verify the card shuffling isn't it and except there is a very smart program that can be trusted or written to do the shuffling and rely totally on the fact that it is doing a fair job, I do not see any other way.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
[/quote]
What you told is the only way of finding the game cards given are correct or not , only the Hash Function way can give you the transparency and fair system working of cards drawn
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If you're talking about playing against a bot operated by an online casino site, much like when you're playing blackjack it's of course possible. I've seen and played online poker against a provably fair bot more than once. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If we're talking about playing other people it's impossible, because the provably fair system only verifies seeds by making sure that the house "roll" stays anonymous to both sides and isn't changed until the player sees it on his screen.
In a poker game people don't roll, they choose cards themselves. The only way a casino could cheat in a pvp poker game is by watching your hand and revealing it to other players who would be planted casino employees.
In the second line of your last paragraph you addressed the core of my my question, but the question remains the same, how to know that you are not playing against a casino who is seeing your cards and acting accordingly. Is their any simple solution to that so that this process become TRANSPARENT
and verifiable?
According to some, cheating in poker can be detected if you play long enough:
An understanding of game play and betting patterns will allow an observant player to realize when this form of rigging might be taking place.
In fact, this is exactly what happened during a tournament at Absolute Poker back in 2007, when observant players questioned the tournament winner's game play and instigated an investigation which led to the uncovering of a scandal in which online players were cheated out of up to $1 million.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
Sorry but you are misunderstanding what I said, what he says is different and his terms aren't appropriate and if he means about verifiable then that should be and it shouldn't be transparent. I understand on what you have said about the cards should be given in order and will be constant, no change at all. This is good and this can secure every sit players that there's no suspicious thing that's happening.
OK, I re-read the OP and see he used both "transparent" and "verifiable" words in his post.
So you were correct. My apologies for accusation.
@OP Transparent poker game makes no sense. I can only assume you have used inappropriate wording.
@Yadstiker, transparency it's not literally a cheating for me but when you are one of the players it's a disadvantage right? You can see the cards of your opponents and your opponents knows your cards too. It's unfair and maybe there is something that OP wants to declare but he can't express it properly.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
What's wrong currently most sites have probably fair mark and it can be verified , you can try to create poker on ether smart contract I'm not any sort if coder but doing so would mean everything is fair and can be viewed by anyone by the smart contract. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If you're talking about playing against a bot operated by an online casino site, much like when you're playing blackjack it's of course possible. I've seen and played online poker against a provably fair bot more than once. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If we're talking about playing other people it's impossible, because the provably fair system only verifies seeds by making sure that the house "roll" stays anonymous to both sides and isn't changed until the player sees it on his screen.
In a poker game people don't roll, they choose cards themselves. The only way a casino could cheat in a pvp poker game is by watching your hand and revealing it to other players who would be planted casino employees.
In the second line of your last paragraph you addressed the core of my my question, but the question remains the same, how to know that you are not playing against a casino who is seeing your cards and acting accordingly. Is their any simple solution to that so that this process become TRANSPARENT
and verifiable?
Hi guys,
I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If you're talking about playing against a bot operated by an online casino site, much like when you're playing blackjack it's of course possible. I've seen and played online poker against a provably fair bot more than once. I have a serious question about the process of randomization in card shuffling in online poker.
Is there any solution for it to make it 100% transparent and verifiable and simple at the same time as well? Please share any innovative idea if you have any.
If we're talking about playing other people it's impossible, because the provably fair system only verifies seeds by making sure that the house "roll" stays anonymous to both sides and isn't changed until the player sees it on his screen.
In a poker game people don't roll, they choose cards themselves. The only way a casino could cheat in a pvp poker game is by watching your hand and revealing it to other players who would be planted casino employees.
It's not even called a solution if you are going to make 100% transparency when playing online poker. I guess there's no use and it's not even an innovative idea. The idea of playing poker will be useless and for sure many will forget this game online if all the cards are transparent to each other, everyone will be folding their cards and will just quit the game later on because there's no use of playing it.
I don't think you know how provably fair systems works. (sorry if Im wrong)
The thing is you dont need to show cards to each other. All you need is to make sure "the cards order was given at game start and has not changed during the game".
This can be achieved by using "hash functions".
IMO by transparent he means: to be verifiable
Sorry but you are misunderstanding what I said, what he says is different and his terms aren't appropriate and if he means about verifiable then that should be and it shouldn't be transparent. I understand on what you have said about the cards should be given in order and will be constant, no change at all. This is good and this can secure every sit players that there's no suspicious thing that's happening.
OK, I re-read the OP and see he used both "transparent" and "verifiable" words in his post.
So you were correct. My apologies for accusation.
@OP Transparent poker game makes no sense. I can only assume you have used inappropriate wording.
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