Topic: Provision for increasing available merit every year by some amount (Read 383 times)

Have felt that too many times

Of course we are not a judge of our own actions so we cant say whether our own posts are merit worthy or not. And not everyone here myself included come from a programming or technological background that we can post in those sections of the forum where merit is generously given to tech helpers and shiny coin collectors.
But then I managed to rank up to Leg from Hero since the system started but my mileage has reduced over the years now.

I know we can go back to the old argument that some sections of the forum have more Noise than Signal and thus sources avoid them. But then is there any solution to this?

There's enough merit to go around OP, what needs to increase is the quality posts and topics that are being posted on the forum daily but that's a different problem too as there's a limited amount of things that many of us can talk about and would be considered as a good topic, no way around that. Maybe if you're having a problem with your merit acquisition, it's a you problem now and not the system anymore, have you looked inwards recently? Checked your post history and see how you've been doing in terms of interactions and such? Might want to evaluate the topics that you're participating too as that could be a factor why they don't give you merits.

There's obviously been lack of merit sources because I don't think many old posters are that bad in their posting and activities in this forum.
It's a good idea and should be done so as to make the place more lively with newbies and old members motivated to improve on quality of their post.

At least persons who have made more posts with fewer merits should not be in same place with newbies just joining some days back, with fewer post but with same merit, if not more on the average.

You are on point, friend, the forum is increasing and not decreasing, so this is practical. If the merit sources and the allocated merits are not increasing, I wonder how it would be generously extended to the deserving posts. No wonder people are increasingly complaining these days about the dwindling merit sharing. I've never thought towards your angle though, except for the need to create more merits sources which has never yielded since.

I hope something is done about this to encourage the good posters and also help those who are still ranking up to get there on time.

Gathering some very simple preliminary data from BPIP, and assuming that the calculus has been the same throughout all datapoint readings, these are some numbers that help get some insights into the matter:

Today:         56.767 active profiles ('.' is a thousands separator)
19/01/2024: 52.758 active profiles
28/11/2023: 51.661 active profiles
24/09/2023: 51.439 active profiles
31/03/2023: 54.618 active profiles
28/01/2023: 55.754 active profiles
21/01/2022: 91.112 active profiles
28/01/2021: 257.463 active profiles
26/04/2020: 116.163 active profiles

I’ve gathered the data from TheWayBackMachine, with a 2 month window for recent months, and a roughly yearly window from there back. Though there is a logical increase since September 2023 (10% aprox.), the current mark of active members is similar to early 2023, and way less than prior yearly readings. The data seems to suggest that the forum is less active really as years go by, which, at a macro level, doesn’t vouch for the need for an overall Merit increase (if things were to run roughly the same year to year). At micro levels though, we’d probably find gaps to cover, patterns to rethink (i.e. Merit/post being awarded), etc.

Note that BPIP considers a profile to be active if it has logged-in over the past 3 months (regardless of the actual posting activity it has undergone). The stat can be rigged by bot accounts simply logging into the forum. It would likely be better to see the data based on the number of accounts that actually post in a given timeframe for a more comprehensive approach.

Most of the points you raised in this reply , I agree with. But you did not touch the main issue I raised with reason. That is more members are joining the forum and that is the reason why merits should be increased every year. Do you feel this need is currently being addressed in some other way I am missing ?

Cause you get merited on a daily?.. so you assume it's easy to everyone? You've been here for a long time now and you've probably got a high profile -- not because anyone else isn't putting in the work -- but because yours may have been relatively essential prior to the time you started off...  Remember, people have different ways to justify things; my posting pattern might be garbage to you but to another, it's all they ever wanted.
I DON'T KNOW MANNNN! honestly! Do I make garbage post ? That's a lie ofcourse! The whole thing lies in their discretion - whether or not you gonna get merited.

---

Huh? Excessively?

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

It sounds like you're saying that inflation is needed for a growing society.  

I personally don't like the whole merit sources thing but understand that it would get abused if it were fairly distributed to everyone.  I digress...

There is a certain level of inflation built into the system naturally, as people can send merits to others just by earning them (and amounts are raised if all merits are used).  I think your comment assumes that merit doesn't get recycled, but it does and quite heavily among certain subsets of users on these boards.  Due to these fundamentals, I would assume that merit numbers will continue to grow.  The only way it doesn't is if merit sources aren't distributing all their merits, which I am guilty of.

I've skimmed through this thread to see if there was anything relating to existing sources getting more sMerits but didn't see anything (and I could have missed it).  My monthly allocation seems to have been upped in the past month or two, but I'm not sure exactly what I was getting to begin with or after I begged for more.

OP actually brings up a valid concern so long as membership here keeps growing (and as long as newcomers make merit-worthy posts, which often isn't the case).  I'd never considered merits in the context of an expanding user base before--but it obviously hasn't been too much of a problem, as there haven't been nearly as many merit begging threads, or threads in Meta about merits in general, as there used to be.  So for now there doesn't appear to be an issue with the merits being circulated or the performance of the merit sources.  The latter I have to make an assumption about since Theymos hasn't ever discussed how he thinks sources are doing.

I don't think if there is some quota of merits that the admin has set to release in the market (forum), but I do know that the way of releasing new merits in the forum is via merit sources and local merit sources. They are given some specific amount of merits by the admin to be shared among other members of the forum. And you can check those merits on merits sources ID if searched on BPIP because it will show only the merits that they have earned not the ones that they have got from the admin.

Well, I think there is no quota because many members apply for merit sources, and the admin selects very few, so keeping this factor in mind, I can say even if the admin has set some quota at the start of the year, he/she won't be able to follow that quota because many people apply for merit source and local merit sources, so the quota can exceed the need. If you are struggling with getting merits, then I suggest you to share valuable posts, besides that, earning merits is not a hard task (Look who is saying it, who doesn't earn merits that much now hehe).

No, I stick to mostly the same boards as before, and have roughly the same number of posts as before with usual activity. Maybe it's a good thing that the merits end up somewhere else, especially if those who need them for ranking get them. Thanks for breaking the dry spell, although it would be interesting to see how long it would last - maybe I would set some new record without merit with daily activity - maybe next month

We can't Know if something of this already existsed or not since someone like me and you aren't a merit source, but I've seen occasions whereby some merits sources apply for increase in their merit bank allocation for each month to increase and I think Theymos granted some, this also calls for more attention needed to be given to all already existing merit source applications, since the forum is increasing yearly in numbers and the merit sources are not as much as they were before or year back, so I will go for the two, increasing the merit monthly allocation for those that needed such and reviewing merit source applications.

Newcomers don't need to worry about getting (Merits), as long as they are able to make appropriate and worthy posts, of course they will get whatever achievements, their efforts and posts will be appreciated, some of the members above have explained this for you.

The problem is, don't make posts like this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/arhipova-2084932, it is not rewarded with achievements, even though every day there are more than 2 million new entrants registering here.

@LoyceV, you have provided an overview of the increase (Merit), in essence the achievement is never reduced for newcomers, as long as they show good posting quality.

Source merits and MS's are adjusted by Theymos when he thinks there is a need for it, but other than that, non-MS's have to earn their own Smerits through their posts and give it to posts they think are of good quality. The admin is not going to make provisions of "Smerits" for new users who are joining the forum, Bitcointalk is a forum for Bitcoin discussion and other whatnots, thus newbies should start off without worrying about merits and when they eventually start making quality posts, they are going to earn merits from MS's and other users.

There could be 1 million newbies joining each day, the problem is, do they make 1 million merit worthy posts?
Also, why would newbie be straight interested in merit from day one, wasn't this whole thing about learning, contributing and not aiming for a rank that allows you a signature?  


Or maybe you're lurking in different areas lately? I had a feeling lately I'm encountering less a few of the usuals despite when checking they are still quite active, you're not the only one from the old gang I thought was taking a break. Also, I just broke your dry spell  , I've turned into a merit hoarder, sometimes I even forget this thing exists.

In order to not being abuse there's a limitations of sMerit counts received by the merit source here in our community and they will circulate that by giving for those quality post and thread anywhere as long as they understand . Yes you are right that mate every day there are many accounts got registered but not all of those are purely newbies some of them are have enough knowledge about cryptocurrency and Bitcoins and start sharing their knowledge. So the merit source will review his/her account and once founded that users are knowledge by creating a quality thread then some users give their sMerits for that account.

Not just because new members are joining, but also because some merit sources are inactive and recently the most active one - Leo left.

If only it is being circulated. Some merit sources have very high standards of giving out merits and some give to only their friends. Merits hardly reach an average unpopular user. So, the smerits supplied by theymos is higher than the one circulated.

This seems to be what is happening. Some merit sources don't even bother. I don't blame them because they are not paid for it. It is not a job and some of them didn't even ask for it or applied for it. Yet, there are few ones trying their best to distribute merits and even by creating merit earning threads.

It is a choice for earned smerits but somehow more than a choice for merit sources.

I agree with this. You don't get to know if the merit distribution is easily flowing if you are not a quality poster because you can make a hundred posts and not get merited up to twenty and you'd think there are no merits in circulation. Although if it's from the angle of giving newbies merit, it would seem as if Theymos is looking for an incentive to keep them here. Just like a user said, there are those who register and still leave, some for failing the rules, others for reasons best known to them.
 If a newbie is being registered, that's not a criteria to disburse merits, its not like some giveaway thread or airdrop stuff.

I'm not going to prove anything, so although I don't know where all these distributed merits end up, I haven't received a single one for some time - which leads me to the conclusion that I don't write "good posts" or that most MS ignore me

And roughtly the same amount as sent by Merit sources can "trickle down" to other users to send.

In the past 8 weeks, 43568 sMerit was sent:

That translates to about 23600 sMerit per month. I don't know how many of those came from Merit sources, but it's far from the maximum.

Of course, there's also this:
Either way, Merit isn't scarce. Good posts are. Prove me wrong!

You don't seem to explain what you really want correctly, is it for individual users or the merit sources? For the merit sources, I think that two things are constantly changing behind the scenes, and they are the DT status and the merits allocations. The two are being upgraded and downgraded for users at some time, so what you might be asking is being fixed.

However, do not forget that adding merits to the ones the merit sources are getting monthly doesn't and will not change the merits reaching you, the forum's current system will make sure of that, except that those who have been getting it before will get it even more. The only thing that can make a huge change is a complete overhauling of it.

People join the forum and there are other members leave the forum. I can't say the In is bigger than Out or oppositely.

Merit is dropped to merit sources every month and the forum does not lack of merit for distribution. What needs is quality of post and quality posts will get merit, non quality posts will not get merit.

If a poster makes many non quality posts and don't get any merit, it does not mean the forum does not have enough merit for distribution.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources

The last collective update to the list of merit sources was about two or three years ago, and since then this list has been updated case by case and I think the last update was last December, when Symmetrick/Ratimov stopped posting.
Over the past year, a number of sources have been added or removed, but as I mentioned, it is case by case.
If you think there is a problem with the distribution of Merit in a particular board, you can obtain more statistics and post them here. I believe that merit sources will help (at least I am willing to cooperate)

After looking at the stats created by DdmrDdmr, there's a decline on the last month, previously it's stays around 5K-ish. There were few merit sources inactives, passed away, or any other personal reasons that could be the reason why the merit is declining, but I believe the forum didn't lack of sMerit.

It's because there are not many posts deserved to be merited because most of the posts I read on the last month always discuss about DCA and price predictions that has been discussed multiple times. Although there's an another reason that some users tend to give merit on their gangs, locals, friends etc.



https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/ddmrddmr/viz/BitcointalkMeritDashboard/GlobalSummary

Merit is adjusted when there is a major drop in the amount of meeit shared, not just because "new people" keep coming in as even more people are leaving/being less active. For example, in 2023 total number of posts dropped by almost 30% compared to the year before, while number of merit shared remained pretty much the same, which means its even easier than before to get merit.

The only time when theymos adjust this is when he notices major drop in the amount of merit shared and that number has been pretty consistent for the last few years.

I don't know how much total smerit is being auto-generated for merit sources, but if you combine all the smerit together, both the merit source and the ones the members earn, and half of it is brought in as sendable, I think it should be more than enough to serve the community. 
 
Even if the admin decides to increase the number for the source on a daily basis, it's left to the source to either distribute it or not; if it's being stored in one place, then the purpose for it won't be served.
 
Giving merit out to someone is just a choice and not a compulsory action, but still, I don't see the point in holding back merit in any way. If you see posts that deserve merit, you don't need to be a source before you can merit them. 

The forum admin increases spendable merits to some existing merits sources from time to time on request or depending on how active the merit source has been. Other times new merit sources are approved but this doesn't happen every day or every week. We have to wait until he acts again. I think that time is about to happen.

Theymos is giving certain amount of smerits to merit sources every month. Merit sources can send some of the smerits to quality posts.

Is there a provision for increasing available merit every year by some amount? This is needed because new members are also joining the forum daily and thus the available merits quantity should be adjusted accordingly.