Topic: PSA: 'Bitcoins' in Ripple are not Bitcoins. They are not real, can be seized. - page 5. (Read 8444 times)
May 15, 2013, 05:56:46 PM
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May 15, 2013, 05:31:03 PM
...then you're in exactly the SAME situation as if MtGox (or BTC24, or BTC-e, or...) gets their wallets/accounts seized, hacked or anything else. This has happened multiple times and continues to happen.
Bitcoin is a system where you can store something that has 0 value and that is given any value beyond that by trading and user trust.
Ripple is a system where you can trade tokens of any value BUT you need to trust others with that. That's the same as with sending BTC to any other address that you don't have the private key to, for example an exchange, Satoshi's Dice, BitPay...
Bitcoin is a system where you can store something that has 0 value and that is given any value beyond that by trading and user trust.
Ripple is a system where you can trade tokens of any value BUT you need to trust others with that. That's the same as with sending BTC to any other address that you don't have the private key to, for example an exchange, Satoshi's Dice, BitPay...
May 15, 2013, 05:27:57 PM
Correct. In the Ripple system, Ripples are the superior asset for their lack of counterparty risk. Furthermore, they are inherently valuable for maintaining account balances and conducting transactions.
Ripple is set up as a parasitic system that takes advantage of Bitcoiner's naivety advertising "decentralized exchanges" to then suck off the blood of its host and kill it with time. Because Bitcoiners don't understand the above, they believe Ripple will complement it, but in reality, it will only do so for a short amount of time until there is no more reason not to switch to Ripple's internal XRP currency.
Ripple is set up as a parasitic system that takes advantage of Bitcoiner's naivety advertising "decentralized exchanges" to then suck off the blood of its host and kill it with time. Because Bitcoiners don't understand the above, they believe Ripple will complement it, but in reality, it will only do so for a short amount of time until there is no more reason not to switch to Ripple's internal XRP currency.
May 15, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Now, let's say (heck, don't need to say, it is going to happen) the DHS investigates the 'gateways' for the same crime and they seize USD and BTC holdings.
All the users that kept currencies on the ripple network just lost money. Whereas if you had btc in your wallet...
All the users that kept currencies on the ripple network just lost money. Whereas if you had btc in your wallet...
May 15, 2013, 05:16:48 PM
I'm no big fan of Ripple but a faked screenshot (Takes about 8 seconds to edit the HTML) proves nothing
The screenshot isn't fake. Anyone can create their own IOUs and issue them to anyone willing to hold them. In the screenshot, there are two accounts involved. One is the issuer and the other is the recipient. In order to achieve that balance the recipient first has to extend trust in the amount of a trillion BTC IOUs to the issuer. Then he logs into the issuer's account using the client and sends the recipient a trillion BTC IOUs.
The recipient will show a positive one trillion balance, while the issuer shows a negative one trillion BTC balance.
This isn't a particularly useful example because the "issuer" is not acting in good faith. Bitstamp, Weexchange, and soon more gateways exist which ARE acting in good faith (you can send and receive fiat and cryptocurrencies with Bitstamp).
If you want to see all of the gateways and how many IOUs they have each emitted, visit https://ripplecharts.com/
Here you can see Bitstamp has issued $213,772.71 of US dollar IOUs. This means they should have at least this much money on deposit in their business bank account.
May 15, 2013, 05:09:29 PM
Well, trust someone else for even just 1000 BTC from Bitstamp, I dare you! 
Creating own IOUs is just like creating your own Bitcoin block chain - as long as nobody else uses it, you can just enjoy your numbers.
Creating own IOUs is just like creating your own Bitcoin block chain - as long as nobody else uses it, you can just enjoy your numbers.
May 15, 2013, 04:55:06 PM
I'm no big fan of Ripple but a faked screenshot (Takes about 8 seconds to edit the HTML) proves nothing
Screenshot is not faked, you can see 1 trillion BTC in the ledger. May 15, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Ripple is what you'll feel when their servers get pwned.
Exactly. I wouldnt leave a dime on this "network." If this latest incident shows us anything, its the extreme utility of Bitcoin's decentralization.
Beyond the fact that OpenCoin is a for profit private company with paid shills on BitcoinTalk, the currency (XRP) being issued and controlled by a few individuals and not mined, and the undeniable fact that interest free debt is worth less in real, quantifiable terms than the amounts it represents.
May 15, 2013, 01:45:24 PM
Ripple is what you'll feel when their servers get pwned.
May 15, 2013, 01:27:29 PM
I'm no big fan of Ripple but a faked screenshot (Takes about 8 seconds to edit the HTML) proves nothing
May 15, 2013, 01:04:42 PM
2013.
People still taking Ripple seriously.
Lolwut.
People still taking Ripple seriously.
Lolwut.
Ripple still a great way of transfering funds quickly.
May 15, 2013, 11:16:37 AM
2013.
People still taking Ripple seriously.
Lolwut.
People still taking Ripple seriously.
Lolwut.
May 15, 2013, 10:22:10 AM
Think of Ripple, not as a currency, but as an accounting system and it will become much easier to understand.
May 15, 2013, 08:10:47 AM
Only trust gateways that are worth trusting. When sending USD, BTC, Credit Card numbers, Social security numbers, etc to a gateway such as MtGox, BTC-E, BitcoinStore.com, Amazon.com, Citibank, you must trust them to be good stewards of your BTC / USD / Credit Card / Data / Products.
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Local banks are government insured.
oh
also highly regulated.
May 15, 2013, 08:08:08 AM
Only trust gateways that are worth trusting. When sending USD, BTC, Credit Card numbers, Social security numbers, etc to a gateway such as MtGox, BTC-E, BitcoinStore.com, Amazon.com, Citibank, you must trust them to be good stewards of your BTC / USD / Credit Card / Data / Products.
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Local banks are government insured.
oh
May 15, 2013, 08:02:38 AM
Only trust gateways that are worth trusting. When sending USD, BTC, Credit Card numbers, Social security numbers, etc to a gateway such as MtGox, BTC-E, BitcoinStore.com, Amazon.com, Citibank, you must trust them to be good stewards of your BTC / USD / Credit Card / Data / Products.
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
Local banks are government insured.
May 15, 2013, 08:00:36 AM
Right, you shouldn't keep a lot of Bitcoins as IOUs in Ripple. However, there's nothing wrong with keeping a minimal amount there, only what's necessary for creating and exchanging IOUs for products or services from merchants. Let's not ignore Ripple's utility for offloading some of the transaction volume from the block chain.
May 15, 2013, 07:54:14 AM
It doesn't have to be malicious by the gateway.
What if the gateway loses all the bitcoins through a natural disaster and a poor back up strategy?
Only trust gateways that are worth trusting. When sending USD, BTC, Credit Card numbers, Social security numbers, etc to a gateway such as MtGox, BTC-E, BitcoinStore.com, Amazon.com, Citibank, you must trust them to be good stewards of your BTC / USD / Credit Card / Data / Products.
Why do you see gateways in ripple differently from a local bank, retaurant, amazon, etc?
May 15, 2013, 07:49:26 AM
Yeah the whole IOU thing does make me a bit hesitant to embrace ripple more fully. I'm not sure if this is a drawback,but it's definitely a concern.
May 15, 2013, 07:30:59 AM
Ripple was designed to be a decentralized currency, however at the current stage it is centralized. Core network rules were changed at a whim - see the lowered requirements for XRP balances to actually use Ripple.
This would be like Gavin introducing 20 million new coins to Bitcoin, and no, no miner is going to adopt that. Reducing XRP requirements creates new XRPs that may be used in the economy, inflating the currency.
This would be like Gavin introducing 20 million new coins to Bitcoin, and no, no miner is going to adopt that. Reducing XRP requirements creates new XRPs that may be used in the economy, inflating the currency.
Let's not bicker. Let's wait it out - 6 more months - and then resume this conversation.
Perhaps you were not aware that Bitcoin was released in an open source state? It's not unfair to expect the same thing from a competitor.
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