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Topic: PSA: Do NOT buy Bitfury BF1 USB Miner - It will not ROI. - page 2. (Read 5211 times)

full member
Activity: 557
Merit: 101
12 months + for ROI is NOT reasonable!

 Traditional investors would disagree with you.

What he meant to say is that 12 months for ROI, risk-adjusted for difficulty increases, is NOT reasonable.

Finally someone understands that returns have to be adjusted for risk!
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Fourth richest fictional character
Thank you for warning

My attempt to find a piece of existing! (not "will be available in N months") hardware/chip, that can keep up with current rise in difficulty has failed. I used http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
Because of huge risk and 0 liquidity and loss of value involved with mining equipment, I like to see at least 30% ROI in 6 months. (did you see, how I used ROI!)


Now, this funny use of ROI.

LOL, "12 months for ROI" ummm. what? "It will not ROI"? Really? WTF that even means?

How about "12 months for USD"? Sounds idiotic? How about "It will not euro"?  LOL
This is not how ROI is used. ROI is metric. You need a number like 10% or 50% or 10 BTC etc.

Code:
"return on investment (%) = (Net profit / Investment) × 100%" or  "return on investment = gain from investment/ cost of investment" 

You do not say "I have ROI in 12 months", you say "I break even in 12 months".
"I had 12% ROI in 1 months" is fine but "I had ROI in 1 month"



ROI can be used in the context your used OR in the context everyone else is using, including me.

Saying, 12 months to get ROI, is short for saying, it will take me 12 months to get 100% ROI.
You can focus on symantics, I'll focus on the big picture Wink
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1058
Next Generation Web3 Casino
Are these actually up for sale with delivery right now? Or is this talking about pre orders?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
idi0ts who part their hard earned money/btc for Bitfury BF1 USB Miner will soon get hemorROIdes from receiving ass-pounding.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
Thank you for warning

My attempt to find a piece of existing! (not "will be available in N months") hardware/chip, that can keep up with current rise in difficulty has failed. I used http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
Because of huge risk and 0 liquidity and loss of value involved with mining equipment, I like to see at least 30% ROI in 6 months. (did you see, how I used ROI!)


Now, this funny use of ROI.

LOL, "12 months for ROI" ummm. what? "It will not ROI"? Really? WTF that even means?

How about "12 months for USD"? Sounds idiotic? How about "It will not euro"?  LOL
This is not how ROI is used. ROI is metric. You need a number like 10% or 50% or 10 BTC etc.

Code:
"return on investment (%) = (Net profit / Investment) × 100%" or  "return on investment = gain from investment/ cost of investment" 

You do not say "I have ROI in 12 months", you say "I break even in 12 months".
"I had 12% ROI in 1 months" is fine but "I had ROI in 1 month"

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Fourth richest fictional character
12 months + for ROI is NOT reasonable!

 Traditional investors would disagree with you.


What kind of investors would they be? Foolish investors? They might be happier investing in CD's at the bank and getting 2-3%.

Anyway you cut it, 12 months for ROI is stupid. At least with CD's you have your principle at the end. With mining, your principle (the hardware) slowly disappears as time goes on and difficulty increases. At the end of 12 months, your principle is gone!


EXPLAIN HOW THAT IS REASONABLE?!  Huh
legendary
Activity: 3094
Merit: 2239
I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)
They will only price hardware at the price the market will bare, and right now, a lot of you are basically bending over saying "I'll pay whatever you want as long as it has ASIC chips! No matter if it might not / may barely break even!"

Enough!  Angry
Sorry, Bitcoin mining is a queen's race. People are not good at spotting that.

Human nature.

C
legendary
Activity: 3094
Merit: 2239
I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)
I'm serious: One way to fix the whole ROI thing is to use the miners for extra work loads that can generate profit.

Like water heating. So who is going to take an old copper hot water solar panel, affix 100 block erupters, and sell it to someone to use to heat their household water and mine bitcoins in the background?

Bitcoin space heaters? How about a Bitcoin oven for the kitchen?

C
full member
Activity: 476
Merit: 100
12 months + for ROI is NOT reasonable!

 Traditional investors would disagree with you.

What he meant to say is that 12 months for ROI, risk-adjusted for difficulty increases, is NOT reasonable.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
12 months + for ROI is NOT reasonable!

 Traditional investors would disagree with you.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Fourth richest fictional character
Stop the madness people!

If you stop buying hardware with unreasonable ROI, manufacturers will be forced to lower their unreasonable pricing.

12 months + for ROI is NOT reasonable!

You do know that the hardware is basically trash after that time, right? And this won't be an easy resell like GPU's since these are one-purpose miners.




They will only price hardware at the price the market will bare, and right now, a lot of you are basically bending over saying "I'll pay whatever you want as long as it has ASIC chips! No matter if it might not / may barely break even!"

Enough!  Angry
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000

It isn't their fault that mining is currently unprofitable unless you throw down a big heap of investment capital up front. The units cost what they cost to produce, end of story. If you don't like it then don't buy any. There is no need for a flame thread because you can't comprehend this.

I sort of welcome good flame threads don't you? This one not sure where it is going considering the conversation here was already happening in the sales thread... I wonder why anyone would want to distract people away from there?
full member
Activity: 476
Merit: 100
This seems like a pretty unfair topic. I know you are just trying to warn potential buyers who haven't done their homework, but really...

"Do NOT buy any ASIC miner if you are looking for a guaranteed ROI" - FTFY
There is probably a lot of truth to that, ASICs are not looking profitable atm. unless you can get them for about $20/GH/s or less delivered in the next month or two. The net hash got very close to 1 PH/s this week, probably pass it in the next peak.


I'm not even sure the 400 GH October BitFury units will ever ROI in BTC at 20$/GH if they don't ship until late October. There seem to be very few ASICs mining purchases right now that look reasonable.

Exactly.  ASIC Mining has been a fiasco ever since Avalon Batch #2 was delayed.
- BFL,
- Avalon Chip orders & Batch #3.
- Friedcat/AM Blades & USB Eruptors.

Millions of dollars have been lost by consumers to these companies.  It is a complete fiasco. I am doing the entire community a service for calling out overpriced hardware.

- I am helping consumers from losing large amounts of money
- I am helping companies from being sued by consumers who are pissed about losing large amounts of money
- I am helping companies price their products accordingly so that they can create a healthy bitcoin economy.

I now urge Big Picture Mining to post a PSA to all other contract manufacturer who are buying BitFury chips that they are totally overpriced and not to buy them.

We have to go all the way up the foodchain to the chip manufacturers if we want to continue to have decentralized mining.  Otherwise no consumers will ever buy hardware again, and mining will be centralized in the hands of a few manufacturers.

Want to do the right thing for Bitcoin and to keep the network safe? Then say no to overpriced hardware and spread the word.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
www.DonateMedia.org

It isn't their fault that mining is currently unprofitable unless you throw down a big heap of investment capital up front. The units cost what they cost to produce, end of story. If you don't like it then don't buy any. There is no need for a flame thread because you can't comprehend this.





full member
Activity: 557
Merit: 101
This seems like a pretty unfair topic. I know you are just trying to warn potential buyers who haven't done their homework, but really...

"Do NOT buy any ASIC miner if you are looking for a guaranteed ROI" - FTFY

More like, only buy these if you want a guaranteed loss!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
One can always solo mine and hope that variance is to your benefit.  Though I think most folks lack the patience to wait months for a block.

You have faith...

Wink
legendary
Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
I don't think any product will achieve a lot more than break-even. It's quite the opposite, we have to hope it will break-even ever.
Why? -> No manufactor will sell any kind of money printing machine if they expects more gain from using themselve. Their selling price is what they expect to mine with + a bit more.

Bitfury delivered more or less in time but they are quite the same! We are just lucky we got 2 h-boards instead of 1 because of their failure. If we got just one single h-board (25 GH/s) nobody will have a chance to achieve break-even ever.
There are 2 winners only: manufactors and resellers
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007

Why don't you let people do what they want with their money? If they have more than 18 or 21 years everyone is free to take their own decisions as they wish
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
One can always solo mine and hope that variance is to your benefit.  Though I think most folks lack the patience to wait months for a block.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
This seems like a pretty unfair topic. I know you are just trying to warn potential buyers who haven't done their homework, but really...

"Do NOT buy any ASIC miner if you are looking for a guaranteed ROI" - FTFY
There is probably a lot of truth to that, ASICs are not looking profitable atm. unless you can get them for about $20/GH/s or less delivered in the next month or two. The net hash got very close to 1 PH/s this week, probably pass it in the next peak.


I'm not even sure the 400 GH October BitFury units will ever ROI in BTC at 20$/GH if they don't ship until late October. There seem to be very few ASICs mining purchases right now that look reasonable.
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