Topic: Public Discussion - escrow dispute - soniq & MikeMike (Read 3599 times)

Looks like you done you best here given the circumstances Dan, always with integrity...

At this point, the only thing I'm still waiting for is the bitcoin address that each party wants their bitcoins sent to.

MikeMike,

I am truly sorry for your loss.  I realize that in such a situation, there isn't much interest in dealing with a long running dispute such as this.  Unfortunately, we've reached a situation where negotiations no longer seem to be productive.

As indicated in the quotes below, I have now received agreement from both parties on a settlement.  I will release escrow to both parties as soon as they provide me a bitcoin address to send the funds to.



For clarification, escrow will be released as follows:

• 19.2 BTC released to a bitcoin address provided by soniq
• 4.2 BTC released to a bitcoin address provided by MikeMike

Danny/Soniq,

As I have made you aware by PM I've had a complicated death in my immediate Family.

I see we won't receive any compensation for the 4-miners being delivered late
though Soniq and I had a personal arrangement it was not put into the Escrow Agreement
and Soniq will not reply to my numerous emails/PM's to address this matter.

Soniq did agree to a payment of 4.8BTC or 4.2BTC I believe for the 5th late terraminer.

Given no recourse and it being clear that's better than this we will accept the 4.8BTC or 4.2BTC agreed upon arrangement.
Which ever it is go with it if it's not too late...

I want to get it over and move on.

Though I'd still like to know what's going on with our Jupiter GB payouts that we never received nor any of the NMC
that was mined that's now near worthless and I can only hope that Soniq won't retaliate and hold this against us
thereby never making good for those Jupiter GB payouts and NMC payout.

Sincerely,
MM

Assuming that I get confirmation from MikeMike of these delivery dates, I calculate compensation for late delivery of 1 unit as follows:

1.6 TH/s miner
May 1 - 11 difficulty = 8000872135.9681635
May 12 - 23 difficulty = 8853416309.1278
May 24 - 27 difficulty = 10455720138.484837

Average calculated expected income at each difficulty:
May 1 - 11: 0.10058073 per day X 11 days = 1.10638803 BTC
May 12 - 23: 0.09089104 per day X 12 days = 1.09069248 BTC
May 24 - 27: 0.07697233 per day X 4 days = 0.3078893 BTC

(income generated calculated as the average of the values reported by the following three websites: alloscomp.com, bitcoinx.com, and coinwarz.com)

1.10638803+1.09069248+0.3078893 = 2.50496981 BTC

As such, MikeMike is due 2.50496981 BTC refunded from escrow as compensation for late delivery.

The remainder of escrow will be released to soniq.

I'll wait 48 hours to see if there are any facts or relevant details that I am missing. If nothing new comes to light, then escrow will be released as indicated.

If any one has any objections to this resolution, or any reason why this decision violates the original escrow agreement, they need to post the associated information in this thread before Thursday, 2014-08-14 23:59 CDT (UTC-5:00).

Due to delivery problems, the two parties spent the past three months attempting to re-negotiate their agreement. They appear to have reached an impasse. I've been asked to release escrow according to the original agreement. I received the following message today from soniq:


The original agreement required compensation to the buyer for late delivery.  I have therefore sent the following message to both parties and am waiting on a response:

Fault doesn't matter.

Equipment was paid for.  Equipment was delivered late.

There is an escrow agreement in place that specifies what happens in this situation.

The parties are welcome to re-negotiate the terms of their agreement if they like, but if they choose not to, I'll release the escrow according to the original agreement as best I can.

Soniq is shady safe to assume he is at fault

Regarding this particular transaction, I'll continue to hold the funds in escrow until one of the following occurs:

• Soniq and MikeMike both inform me that they have reached a new agreement on how the funds in escrow should be released
• Soniq demands that the original escrow agreement be enforced without renegotiating
• MikeMike demands that the original escrow agreement be enforced without renegotiating

Thx Danny. 
Can we ask you to put a reasonable deadline on Soniq to respond?  In case he does not, we can pick up on future plans from there.

As an escrow provider, I am doing what I can to enforce the original agreement between MikeMike and Soniq (regardless of how any of us feel about soniq's ability to honor his commitments).  The whole purpose of escrow is to allow individuals to do business without needing to concern themselves very much with the ability of the counterparty to honor commitments.

Both parties are welcome to renegotiate the terms of the agreement if they wish to do so.  If they BOTH tell me that they've reached a new agreement, I'll release escrow according to the new agreement.  If either of them refuse to renegotiate, then the original terms will be enforced.  Up until now, lack of communication from Soniq has made it impossible to determine if he was willing to renegotiate or not.  As long as MikeMike was willing to continue to try, and Soniq did not specifically demand release according to the original terms, I've been willing to continue to hold escrow and wait to see.

Saying that they are negotiating is a rather generous and kind way of describing what has actually been happening.

I've heard absolutely nothing from Soniq for over a month until today, and MikeMike has patiently been repeatedly sending emails and PMs to Soniq while receiving very little response (if any).

Thank you for comprehensive feedback Danny.

I'm afraid Larry might have intentionally dropped his responsibilities around the forums.  We have two Skype groups of 43 people in a Jupiter GB and 19 people in a CoinTerra GB and although we can see Larry is still online in Skype, he is not responding to any messages or PMs via Skype from anyone.  

I am just curious as to when last either you or MikeMike has heard anything from him?

We have very concerned GB members.  It might be time to consider alternative plans in the event Larry does not respond promptly.

Thx again for all the efforts and being patient in the midst of this controversy.
    

a little off topic, but nice to see soniq can negotiate getting his funds but fail to inform his multiple group guys what the feck is going on and where their money is 

MikeMike and Soniq have attempted to re-negotiate.

Due to limited communication from Soniq, this renegotiation has taken a long time and has not yet been resolved.

It was determined by MikeMike that the 5th unit that originally did not arrive, was no longer desired.

20 days later it showed up anyhow.

MikeMike doesn't want it any longer due to it not being delivered as required in the original agreement and wants a refund for the payment originally sent for it.  Soniq wants 7 BTC for it even though he was told weeks before it's arrival that it was no longer wanted.  Soniq has not yet provided a shipping address to send it back to him.

There is still disagreement about the 0.06 BTC that were apparently due to MikeMike from a previous unresolved transaction, and which supposedly Soniq agreed to apply to this transaction.

Soniq appears to be ignoring any request for compensation for late delivery on the first 4 units and isn't even participating in any conversation about it.

I'll continue to wait for MikeMike and Soniq to complete their negotiations.  If they inform me that they are unable to come to an agreement, I'll enforce the original agreement in as fair a way as I can within the specified constraints.  This will require computing how much the 5th miner should have been able to mine during the 20 days MikeMike was waiting for delivery.

Here are some of the disgruntled GB threads that can be argued as cause:
[GB]Terraminer IV #5, Coinsortium
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278460.new;topicseen#new
[Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=226319.780
[Closed][GB] KNCminer Jupiter #21 Sold [Added to 8 TH/s Jupiter Pool]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242878.new#new

In the latest thread there is a suggestion to hand the issue over to a law firm.  Maybe Danny could mail Larry's details to them if he does not want to realease it publicly.

To be honest I don't think he should release that information due to the fact that would be unprofessional as an escrow who is suppose to be 3rd party. Unless it is for a cause that is supported by factual evidence or in a case with law enforcement is involved (along with valid claims) then it should be released.

Hi Danny
Given the controversy around soniq's disappearance as admin from multiple GB's e.g.:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278460.new;topicseen#new
can we reasonably request a public release of any personal information you or John K might have of soniq in order for legal recourse to be pursued?

I've reviewed the escrow agreement again.  I don't see anything in the agreement that would allow me to refund the 0.06 BTC balance due from prior to the transaction. I also don't see anything in the agreement that would allow me to compensate MikeMike for the 4 items that were delivered after Monday, but before Thursday.

I realize that this is a frustrating situation for MikeMike, but I have to enforce the agreement that I have as impartially and accurately as I can.

I recognize that he expected delivery on Monday, and that he expected compensation for any delivery that occurred after Monday. Unfortunately this was not made clear prior to the transaction, and I never received agreement from sonic on this.

In the communications between MikeMike and sonic that I've seen, there is nothing about MikeMike receiving any of the balance that was due to him prior to the transaction.  Everything indicated that entire balance was being applied to the purchase.  Therefore, it is already accounted for in the refund and products that MikeMike receives.

MikeMike will receive a full refund of 7.8 BTC for the unit that was not delivered.

I have received 2 different addresses from MikeMike at 2 different times for his refund.  As soon as MikeMike clarifies which address to use, I'll send the 7.8 BTC refund.

I have not received any address from soniq for his funds.  I will continue to hold his payment in escrow until he contacts me with a bitcoin address.

This was mentioned multiple times in the escrow agreement. There is nothing I can do about that now.


I did, and you agreed to it. See your original escrow agreement.  Here are the relevant details:


Because neither of you indicated an expected delivery date when you requested the escrow agreement.  I chose a date that made sense based on escrows I've held in the past. At that time you had not yet indicated that you would be paying for expedited delivery.  Once you chose to pay for expedited delivery, you needed to get agreement from soniq about a change in compensation deadline, and you both needed to inform me that you agreed to change the deadline. See your original escrow agreement.  I made the process for changing requirements as clear as I possibly could. Here are the relevant details:


I frequently hold escrows where someone demands delivery before a particualr deadline, but pays for delivery sooner.  When you want it, and when you need it are not always the same thing.


Please do.  Please also send me the exact amount that you paid for the shipping on those two units.  To properly calculate whether you are due a refund of prior balance due, I need to know exactly how much of that prior balance due soniq agreed to apply to which units.


There are no details in the escrow agreement indicating compensation for faulty equipment.  Your options are:

• Return the unit to soniq and request a refund
• Keep the unit and work with Cointerra to get it repaired or replaced
• Negotiate with soniq and arrange an agreement for compensation

Since you have already been mining with this unit for almost 3 weeks, it is quickly getting to be unreasonable to be requesting a full refund on the unit.