Public online auction for confiscated BTC tomorrow 25 Sep 2019

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: HeRetiK on October 01, 2019, 05:42:09 AM

Quote from: boris2470 on October 01, 2019, 01:33:58 AM

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

governments are the best damn money launderers on earth---steal a criminal's coins, polish them up, and sell them at a premium. rinse/repeat. the police have turned asset forfeiture into an industry at this point. why not bring it to crypto?

Quote from: yoseph on October 01, 2019, 07:39:57 AM

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

if you get coins in a government auction, those coins have been issued a clean bill of health---literally endorsed by the government. compare that with coins freshly withdrawn from a darknet market, which could be flagged by any exchange you send them to.

which coins seem dirty and which ones seem clean?

HeRetiK

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Quote from: yoseph on October 01, 2019, 07:39:57 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on October 01, 2019, 05:42:09 AM

Quote from: boris2470 on October 01, 2019, 01:33:58 AM

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

Coins are "dirty" when blockchain-analysis show that they've come from a questionable source (eg. a known darknet marketplace wallet or a scammer's address). That means that if you try to sell these coins at an exchange that follows KYC / AML procedures you run at risk to have your account frozen or to have local law enforcement knocking at your door. You're likely to have to explain the source of funds which might not end well for you (assuming you're connected to the associated crimes).

These coins become "clean" in that you now have a good explanation why these coins are linked to crime -- they were confiscated and you bought them at an auction as officially sanctioned by the government.

Of course that's an oversimplification of a complicated issue (ie. fungibility), but that's the gist of it.

yoseph

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Quote from: HeRetiK on October 01, 2019, 05:42:09 AM

Quote from: boris2470 on October 01, 2019, 01:33:58 AM

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

I fail to see how auctioning the supposed dirty bitcoin's makes them clean, shouldn't they just be sold like any commodity instead of going through all this hassle since its the money they want eventually and I wonder if they are going to be sold at a reduced pricing since its "dirty" in the first place.

gentlemand

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This is different from something like silk road coins with multiple known and tainted addresses from tons of users.

If I remember rightly these were phished coins and few exchanges or law enforcement types will know or care about the addresses.

It's small time stuff.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: boris2470 on October 01, 2019, 01:33:58 AM

I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

Since the coins have been confiscated they are by definition "dirty", otherwise I guess they wouldn't have had the legal basis for seizing these coins (unless we're talking bankruptcy cases)

Either way you'll be able to prove that you've bought the coins at the auction, making them "clean".

Kinda silly, isn't it.

boris2470

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I'm more interested in whether Bitcoins that are sold at auctions are 'dirty'? As I understand it, these coins are seized from scammers or something like that

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: gentlemand on September 30, 2019, 07:41:58 PM

Report here - https://micky.com.au/uk-police-make-out-like-bandits-in-bitcoin-auction/

7500 bids from across the world and it's saying that on average it achieved above market rates.

that doesn't surprise me, even with the 15% commission. i think there are investors willing to pay a significant premium for "government sanctioned" coins. that's certainly the impression i got when draper outbid everyone on every single lot in the first USMS auction---he must have paid a hefty premium.

similar to virgin coins, the fungibility of "government sanctioned" coins is beyond doubt.

gentlemand

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Report here - https://micky.com.au/uk-police-make-out-like-bandits-in-bitcoin-auction/

7500 bids from across the world and it's saying that on average it achieved above market rates. I don't really recall that being the case but I did miss a few of them as they ended.

gentlemand

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Did anyone see what the alts went for? Results aren't available if you weren't there to see the sale end. The Zcash was over market value too but nowhere near the BSV.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: buwaytress on September 26, 2019, 06:45:28 AM

They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

it has already crashed. i would say they are ultra lucky that it happened and they are buying it at this rate instead of 15-20% higher. so in reality the discount they are getting is about 30% to 45% right now. there is no room left for crash and even if it happens, the price is bound towards $10k+ soon enough. i don't think someone participating in this kind of auction is going to look for quick profit. a short wait and they nearly double their money.

gentlemand

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Quote from: buwaytress on September 26, 2019, 06:45:28 AM

About 15 mins to go and the prices for 1 BTC are generally in the GBP 5600 range, which, after the 15% premium comes up to GBP 6440. Cheapest deal on Localbitcoins now is GBP 7100.

It's almost surely the same person probably since 0.5 BTC 2 BTC and 0.25 BTC lots are almost exactly at the same value.

Still, almost 10% discount on current prices. They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

The ones that have finished made £6400 ish for most with premium, with the odd blip. Not bad. I wonder how rapidly you get them. I cannae wait to see what the BSV achieves. Someone's going to outraged.

buwaytress

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About 15 mins to go and the prices for 1 BTC are generally in the GBP 5600 range, which, after the 15% premium comes up to GBP 6440. Cheapest deal on Localbitcoins now is GBP 7100.

It's almost surely the same person probably since 0.5 BTC 2 BTC and 0.25 BTC lots are almost exactly at the same value.

Still, almost 10% discount on current prices. They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

So now I know.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: buwaytress on September 24, 2019, 02:20:22 AM

On behalf of the UK government: https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?salecode=192398
GBP 500 deposit, passport/ID verification, proof of address, and you can bid on lots starting at 0.25 BTC.

No reserves, no limits.

I've always wondered how much people buy crypto at auctions for, and why police didn't simply just sell them. After 15% commission, the bitcoin must be going for max 80% of average price. Anyone know any info on this?

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

Anyone interested?

Wow, this is another one angle I am reading things would want to understand the rationale because what this means is that they have reduced bitcoin to a commodity and its funny. Just like an event that I have about coins as money in the past which was minted from gold. People then prefer to sell the gold for more money rather than using the coin as money. In this case, I don't see how someone would want to bid higher knowing the current price of btc that can be bought in open market without the hassles of ID and deposit and if bid is low, how someone cannot make immediate profit by selling in the open market. The impact in the market is my concern that the dumping would not further crash the already bleeding price of crypto. But lets look on the bright side as this is publicity in the long run although losses in the short term.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: gentlemand on September 25, 2019, 08:13:29 AM

Quote from: DeathAngel on September 24, 2019, 10:04:04 AM

Look at the guy on the right, jerk looks like something out of Lord Of The Rings.

He might well be reading this. You just needlessly hurt his feelings.

He might be right in a way. Many actors (including some of the hobbits) in LOTR were British.

I hate the word "confiscated". It has this "legally stolen" vibe.

Usually, coins bought at auctions fetch higher prices than the current exchange rate. People who buy in bulk usually don't care. I mean yesterday we were at 9k now were at 8 so what's the real price? Somewhere in between? If I had the money to buy 10 BTC right now I probably wouldn't care if I were to buy them at 8.5 or 9k USD. At some point in time, be it a month or a year, it's going to be worth more than 10k. Poor people are just unable to freeze money for so long, but for the rich it's just another chess piece on the board.

gentlemand

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Quote from: kryptqnick on September 25, 2019, 12:35:15 PM

The auction sounds very weird to me. I understand that since Bitcoin is not legal tender in Great Britain, it's probably not as strange to the officials, but I see it as an attempt of selling money at a different price. Imagine if they confiscated 500 EUR and then made an auction in USD to see who is willing to pay how much for it. It's ridiculous, Bitcoin has its market price and it should not be worth way more or way less.

Eh?

It's just the same as every other public auction. They farm it out to the auction house and receive whatever money they get. That's how it is for anything they recover from criminals.

If buyers are stupid enough to pay more than the market rate then no one's stopping them and no one's forcing them. It's entirely their fault for bidding. The government won't care.

kryptqnick

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The auction sounds very weird to me. I understand that since Bitcoin is not legal tender in Great Britain, it's probably not as strange to the officials, but I see it as an attempt of selling money at a different price. Imagine if they confiscated 500 EUR and then made an auction in USD to see who is willing to pay how much for it. It's ridiculous, Bitcoin has its market price and it should not be worth way more or way less. And all those formal requirements don't make the auction particularly attractive. Not to mention that it kind of does not feel right to receive the very same money that criminals use. I mean, of course, we can receive and send this money without knowing it but buying it knowing for sure about the dirty transaction history is not something I'd do.

gentlemand

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That 0.1 BSV is now £99. 1 whole BSV bought in a real market is £68.

Do you think they'll let me make a late entry on there with what I've got left of it?

For the alts at least there may well be some highly comical prices.

virasisog

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Quote from: Mbitr on September 24, 2019, 07:17:30 AM

I think this auction is available to a worldwide audience. After doing a bit of research, they did an auction in January of this year, details -

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/news/wilsons-auctions-launches-uk-s-first-seized-cryptocurrency-auction/

I can’t believe they know much about crypto currencies , but it will be interesting to see what happens and if anyone on the forum gets involved, please let us know how your experience was.

This is the first time i heard something like this, and as i read the article this is a first also in UK
But having this auction happen by the authorities obviously is catching the attention of their locals and international as well

gentlemand

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Quote from: DeathAngel on September 24, 2019, 10:04:04 AM

Look at the guy on the right, jerk looks like something out of Lord Of The Rings.

He might well be reading this. You just needlessly hurt his feelings.

Quote from: Kakmakr on September 25, 2019, 08:12:15 AM

We cannot deny that bitcoins are slowly but surely attracting a lot of bad elements, because of it's anonymity features. I hope a hoarder will buy these coins and not someone that is just going to buy it and immediately sell it for a profit. Roll Eyes

My guess is that there won't be any short term profit in this. It's going to be bid up beyond the market cost because some won't be thinking about the buyer's premium and others won't bother to check the current market price.

That 0.1 BSV is already only a quid or two off market value with the premium included.

The median on the front page is about £4300 for each bitcoin another 23 hours or so to go.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: HeRetiK on September 24, 2019, 03:41:16 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on September 24, 2019, 02:20:22 AM

Would have participated if not for the lot size. Can't afford to bid for 0.25 BTC plus the deposit!

There's also a Lot at 0.1028 BSV Grin

maybe just go for that one!

Any sources on where these coins came from? Have there been any major Darknet market busts in the UK lately? Or are we looking at the Queen's secret stash and she's become tired of hodling? Wink

I watched a new documentary on UK law enforcement and the most expensive items they auctioned on that auction was bitcoins that were recovered. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-49342397 I cannot remember what it was called, but they found it in a drug dealers house with a lot of other expensive items.

We cannot deny that bitcoins are slowly but surely attracting a lot of bad elements, because of it's anonymity features. I hope a hoarder will buy these coins and not someone that is just going to buy it and immediately sell it for a profit. Roll Eyes

See there are some Alt coins too...

Topic: Public online auction for confiscated BTC tomorrow 25 Sep 2019 (Read 348 times)