Putin tries to claim the North Pole.

EternalWingsofGod

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 10, 2015, 01:37:34 PM

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those

That will change with the global warming. It is estimated that by 2030, the Northern Sea Route will be navigable 9-months a year. This will greatly reduce the time duration for ships traveling from Europe to East Asia and vice versa. IMO, Russia is stepping up its presence in the Arctic, in order to secure the Northern Sea Route.

For example, the distance between Yokohama and Rotterdam is 17,913 km via the Suez canal, and 11,279 km via the Northern Sea Route.

Using this map its very clear that the Northwest Passage is in Canada's zone and passes by Alaska which probally wouldn't be to large an issue in sealanes.
The Northeast passage is in Russia's zone with Alaska / Russia in that narrow exit.

Who controls the pole will determine a lot about the midway sea route though especially where Sea Depth is important for safe passage through the channel.

A bit of humor on that note
http://www.outsideonline.com/1930301/fbis-top-secret-plan-defend-alaska-communists
Give a bunch of guns and gold to hearty, tattooed Alaskans, and turn them loose.

jayce

legendary

Activity: 2982

Merit: 1506

Pie Baking Contest: https://tinyurl.com/2s3z6dee

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Your naive ideas about politics warm my heart Kiss

Alaska was never sold to US, it was lended out by tsarist Russian empire, de jure different entity from Soviet Union and also different from modern day Russian Federation.

Could you give me any proof beside your conspiracy theory huh? I have read many articles that stated Russia sold Alaska to US. I think people here just the conspiracy theorists then.

Quote from: Harry Hood on August 10, 2015, 01:32:52 PM

Hahaha, according to your rationale then, the US can claim the Moon as its territory because it was the first country to step foot on it and plant a flag there! The North Pole is also near the territory of Canada, the US, Korea, Norway, Greenland, Iceland. So why don't these countries get a say in this decision? The North Pole is just a few miles north of each of these countries!

Dont you know those countries also try to claim some part of North Pole as their territory? Roll Eyes

And you should learn how to read map then! How can you say Korea is near with The North Pole. Your sense in politic just make me laugh. US can claim the moon, but why the hell they need it?

Possum577

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Loose lips sink sigs!

Quote from: RodeoX on August 10, 2015, 03:00:30 PM

This graphic kind of proves that Russia's point is relevant and not crazy. According to the laws of the sea they have a rightful claim (along with few other countries) to call the water "touching" the Pole part of the land of vodka and dilapidated Olympic venues! Ok, that was kind of rude but their claim doesn't seem nearly as crazy now to me as it did when I first read this post.

Do other countries get to appeal their attempt or even get a say in it?

Gronthaing

legendary

Activity: 1135

Merit: 1001

Quote from: OBAViJEST on August 10, 2015, 04:23:32 PM

Future headline:

Chechen penguins blew up two russian frigates passing through lomonosov strait, Russian forces amass near the north pole. Sources claim one penguin has ties with the FSB..

You're thinking of the south pole. There are no penguins in the north pole.

Quote from: OBAViJEST on August 10, 2015, 07:26:22 PM

Wait

What is the strategic value of claiming the north pole?

What sort of facilities would be installed? Radar? AA? Etc.

The north pole is rich in oil and other resources. Then there are the fees from trading ships passing through the territory. And we can't forget Santa also lives there.

notbatman

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1038

Smithers, release the Kraken.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 1219

Quote from: Harry Hood on August 10, 2015, 01:32:52 PM

The waters should remain international to all the free flow of trade.

None of the territorial seas are free for the cargo transporters. And also, the fee that the shipping companies need to pay for passing through the 8,000 km long Russian part of the Northern Sea Route is just a fraction of what Egypt and Panama charges for the 193 km long Suez Canal and the 77 km long Panama canal respectively.

First make the American and Canadian section of the Northern Sea Route free for the cargo transporters. Then we can talk about Russia.

OBAViJEST

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Wait

What is the strategic value of claiming the north pole?

What sort of facilities would be installed? Radar? AA? Etc.

White sugar

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Harry Hood on August 10, 2015, 01:32:52 PM

Quote from: jayce on August 10, 2015, 01:12:33 PM

I think Russia can claim North Pole, since the north pole is near from its territory, thats why Putin has a big chance to own it. And I think its not a big deal for US since Russia have sold Alaska for them.

Hahaha, according to your rationale then, the US can claim the Moon as its territory because it was the first country to step foot on it and plant a flag there! The North Pole is also near the territory of Canada, the US, Korea, Norway, Greenland, Iceland. So why don't these countries get a say in this decision? The North Pole is just a few miles north of each of these countries!

It's a huge deal, because as the ice melts new shipping lanes open which makes it easier to reach different Continents. It may also make new norther border cities become booming port cities. The waters should remain international to all the free flow of trade.

Is there any land at the North Pole (I don't believe there is)...?

Korea and Iceland near North Pole Huh

are you kidding or high?

And the argument about russian owning part of North Pole has nothing to do with they being the first to reach some territory

lumeire

legendary

Activity: 1848

Merit: 1009

Next-Gen Trade Racing Metaverse

Russia's claims are much more substantial than the Chinese claiming whole of West Philippine Sea

OBAViJEST

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Future headline:

Chechen penguins blew up two russian frigates passing through lomonosov strait, Russian forces amass near the north pole. Sources claim one penguin has ties with the FSB..

Snail2

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 10, 2015, 01:37:34 PM

For example, the distance between Yokohama and Rotterdam is 17,913 km via the Suez canal, and 11,279 km via the Northern Sea Route.

In addition to the shorter distance in the near future the northern trade routes going to be the safe places as the arab countries around the Suez canal and the Red Sea are getting more and more unstable. We should open a bitcoin casino and brothel somewhere there on one of the unclaimed patches

.

RodeoX

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1147

The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:40:22 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 10, 2015, 01:37:34 PM

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those

That will change with the global warming. It is estimated that by 2030, the Northern Sea Route will be navigable 9-months a year. This will greatly reduce the time duration for ships traveling from Europe to East Asia and vice versa. IMO, Russia is stepping up its presence in the Arctic, in order to secure the Northern Sea Route.

For example, the distance between Yokohama and Rotterdam is 17,913 km via the Suez canal, and 11,279 km via the Northern Sea Route.

If you are right, that would only leverage position of Russians further in the future, once the control over the area is established. That will be simply unacceptable for western establishment.

Some western powers might not like it, but they already agreed to it. The Arctic is being divided up by many nations according to the "rules of the Sea" laid out over 30 years ago. At that time many did not want to believe the data about the warming of the planet. Now there is absolutely no question among scientists that the north pole is going to melt away and open the arctic to navigation.

Sourgummies

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Never ending parties are what Im into.

Believe China and India are in the mix as well as observers but most likely want to get deeper into the mix.

Sourgummies

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Never ending parties are what Im into.

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Quote from: jayce on August 10, 2015, 01:12:33 PM

I think Russia can claim North Pole, since the north pole is near from its territory, thats why Putin has a big chance to own it. And I think its not a big deal for US since Russia have sold Alaska for them.

Your naive ideas about politics warm my heart Kiss

Alaska was never sold to US, it was lended out by tsarist Russian empire, de jure different entity from Soviet Union and also different from modern day Russian Federation.

Of course, United States will have problems with it, as it has problems with any country that follows independent policies on its own.

However, I doubt US is currently capable to deal with artic expansion of Russians. Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those, they also have capability to modernize old nuclear mega-submarines (Typhoons) into submersible freighters. Currently floating nuclear power station is also being build.

Find it interesting that you see the land transfer as a loan. Do you have a link to back up that claim? March 30, 1867 was the date that I know of and it was due to the British ruling the seas at the time and cutting off Alaska from the rest of Russia. Tensions where high over the Crimea War,but I may be off in my thinking.

Okurkabinladin

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 506

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 10, 2015, 01:37:34 PM

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those

That will change with the global warming. It is estimated that by 2030, the Northern Sea Route will be navigable 9-months a year. This will greatly reduce the time duration for ships traveling from Europe to East Asia and vice versa. IMO, Russia is stepping up its presence in the Arctic, in order to secure the Northern Sea Route.

For example, the distance between Yokohama and Rotterdam is 17,913 km via the Suez canal, and 11,279 km via the Northern Sea Route.

If you are right, that would only leverage position of Russians further in the future, once the control over the area is established. That will be simply unacceptable for western establishment.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 1219

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on August 10, 2015, 01:23:42 PM

Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those

That will change with the global warming. It is estimated that by 2030, the Northern Sea Route will be navigable 9-months a year. This will greatly reduce the time duration for ships traveling from Europe to East Asia and vice versa. IMO, Russia is stepping up its presence in the Arctic, in order to secure the Northern Sea Route.

For example, the distance between Yokohama and Rotterdam is 17,913 km via the Suez canal, and 11,279 km via the Northern Sea Route.

Harry Hood

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: jayce on August 10, 2015, 01:12:33 PM

I think Russia can claim North Pole, since the north pole is near from its territory, thats why Putin has a big chance to own it. And I think its not a big deal for US since Russia have sold Alaska for them.

Hahaha, according to your rationale then, the US can claim the Moon as its territory because it was the first country to step foot on it and plant a flag there! The North Pole is also near the territory of Canada, the US, Korea, Norway, Greenland, Iceland. So why don't these countries get a say in this decision? The North Pole is just a few miles north of each of these countries!

It's a huge deal, because as the ice melts new shipping lanes open which makes it easier to reach different Continents. It may also make new norther border cities become booming port cities. The waters should remain international to all the free flow of trade.

Is there any land at the North Pole (I don't believe there is)...?

Okurkabinladin

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 506

Quote from: jayce on August 10, 2015, 01:12:33 PM

I think Russia can claim North Pole, since the north pole is near from its territory, thats why Putin has a big chance to own it. And I think its not a big deal for US since Russia have sold Alaska for them.

Your naive ideas about politics warm my heart Kiss

Alaska was never sold to US, it was lended out by tsarist Russian empire, de jure different entity from Soviet Union and also different from modern day Russian Federation.

Of course, United States will have problems with it, as it has problems with any country that follows independent policies on its own.

However, I doubt US is currently capable to deal with artic expansion of Russians. Only ships that are capable of sustainable operation in arctic are nuclear icebreakers. US has only one, while Russians maintain or build more than dozen of those, they also have capability to modernize old nuclear mega-submarines (Typhoons) into submersible freighters. Currently floating nuclear power station is also being build.

jayce

legendary

Activity: 2982

Merit: 1506

Pie Baking Contest: https://tinyurl.com/2s3z6dee

I think Russia can claim North Pole, since the north pole is near from its territory, thats why Putin has a big chance to own it. And I think its not a big deal for US since Russia have sold Alaska for them.

RodeoX

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1147

The revolution will be monetized!

My understanding is that this claim has legal merit. The rules of the sea developed in the 1980's allow nations to define their sea territories by their continental shelf. Russia's claim is consistent with these agreements. Some may try to equate this with the land grab in Ukraine, but this is very different.

Topic: Putin tries to claim the North Pole. (Read 1198 times)