Topic: Qualcomm funds startup to use Bitcoin for Internet of Things (Read 5541 times)
I'm skeptical of that claim of 16nm considering most consumer devices aren't even at that scale. But if it even has a remote merit I can't see how 21inc could compete.
I hear you, but we are not talking about anything this powerful... Built-in IC could hash at 1GH and consume less than 0.5W, and with new tech around the corner to be even faster and more efficient. Now, multiply this by millions of smart devices around the world and you have one powerful decentralized network. IBM, CISCO, WHIRLPOOL, etc can now create their own mining pools those devices will hash to and get extra stream of revenue, perhaps sharing some with their customers. I just do not see anything technologically unreachable here I guess.
That only works out if 21inc can ensure providing the most efficient Bitcoin ASIC in the long run, if at any point the competition catches up it's over for them.
I don't even think it would work in the short run because as I recall the competition is already pretty close to the latest production node at 28nm. Thinking that they surpass the competition by a significant margin is unrealistic imho.
So what's left is a level playing field where electricity costs make up more then half of the value of mined Bitcoins in the latest design. I already posted about the economics of scale, meaning that in principle a dedicated larger Bitcoin miner will always be more efficient than a small hybrid design.
But lets say they pull a rabbit out of their hat and arrive at >2gh/w wall plug efficacy. How long do you think would it take the competition to catch up and even surpass them? How can they hope to remain providing the most efficient design considering the economics of scale? Keep in mind that, right now the break even point for new mining hardware is close to 8 years. (If price and difficulty stays the same)
I thought 21 was developing application layer for those smart devices or ICs (Qualcomm in particular). I really do not know what kind of hardware is in the pipeline but judging by KnC they are already on the way to 16nm with 0.07 / GH efficiency (ref: https://www.knccloud.com/blog/archive)
I hear you, but we are not talking about anything this powerful... Built-in IC could hash at 1GH and consume less than 0.5W, and with new tech around the corner to be even faster and more efficient. Now, multiply this by millions of smart devices around the world and you have one powerful decentralized network. IBM, CISCO, WHIRLPOOL, etc can now create their own mining pools those devices will hash to and get extra stream of revenue, perhaps sharing some with their customers. I just do not see anything technologically unreachable here I guess.
That only works out if 21inc can ensure providing the most efficient Bitcoin ASIC in the long run, if at any point the competition catches up it's over for them.
I don't even think it would work in the short run because as I recall the competition is already pretty close to the latest production node at 28nm. Thinking that they surpass the competition by a significant margin is unrealistic imho.
So what's left is a level playing field where electricity costs make up more then half of the value of mined Bitcoins in the latest design. I already posted about the economics of scale, meaning that in principle a dedicated larger Bitcoin miner will always be more efficient than a small hybrid design.
But lets say they pull a rabbit out of their hat and arrive at >2gh/w wall plug efficacy. How long do you think would it take the competition to catch up and even surpass them? How can they hope to remain providing the most efficient design considering the economics of scale? Keep in mind that, right now the break even point for new mining hardware is close to 8 years. (If price and difficulty stays the same)
Loool
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
That's really... awful? I'm finding it hard to believe that article.
Toasters are probably a bit of a stretch but I do see micro miners / Bitcoin nodes being built-in on some home smart devices that already have CPUs and wi-fi controllers. Why not?
Cuz it has to be a dedicated ASIC on the SOC which would compete with silicon area of the rest of the device. That makes this thing especially uneconomical in comparison to dedicated devices.
The problem is the whole hybrid design aspect which doesn't live up to the promise of more than the sum of it's parts. Take hybrid laptop/tablet PCs for instance. They are both heavier than real tablet PCs, have less performance than laptops and are less durable than both. A set top box mining bitcoin would have less Gigahash/Watt while having for instance a slower GPU than a standard box.
Worse, if that set top box should have any chance of ever recouping the hardware costs it should have active cooling and a larger power supply to enable at least some reasonable hash rate both which are superfluous for a regular set top box consuming <10W
I hear you, but we are not talking about anything this powerful... Built-in IC could hash at 1GH and consume less than 0.5W, and with new tech around the corner to be even faster and more efficient. Now, multiply this by millions of smart devices around the world and you have one powerful decentralized network. IBM, CISCO, WHIRLPOOL, etc can now create their own mining pools those devices will hash to and get extra stream of revenue, perhaps sharing some with their customers. I just do not see anything technologically unreachable here I guess.
Loool
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
That's really... awful? I'm finding it hard to believe that article.
Toasters are probably a bit of a stretch but I do see micro miners / Bitcoin nodes being built-in on some home smart devices that already have CPUs and wi-fi controllers. Why not?
Cuz it has to be a dedicated ASIC on the SOC which would compete with silicon area of the rest of the device. That makes this thing especially uneconomical in comparison to dedicated devices.
The problem is the whole hybrid design aspect which doesn't live up to the promise of more than the sum of it's parts. Take hybrid laptop/tablet PCs for instance. They are both heavier than real tablet PCs, have less performance than laptops and are less durable than both. A set top box mining bitcoin would have less Gigahash/Watt while having for instance a slower GPU than a standard box.
Worse, if that set top box should have any chance of ever recouping the hardware costs it should have active cooling and a larger power supply to enable at least some reasonable hash rate both which are superfluous for a regular set top box consuming <10W
Loool
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
That's really... awful? I'm finding it hard to believe that article.
Toasters are probably a bit of a stretch but I do see micro miners / Bitcoin nodes being built-in on some home smart devices that already have CPUs and wi-fi controllers. Why not?
Loool
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
That's really... awful? I'm finding it hard to believe that article.
Loool
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/
tl;dr They want to offer cost-free consumer devices, mining bitcoin to pay for the cost of the device. All, of course based on difficulty and bitcoin prices from last year.
Another theory about what they are doing in not specifically bitcoin related. There are ways of using a blockchain to verify identity and perhaps do away with the need for sim cards. Getting rid of those sim cards is a desire of the phone industry.
But why using the block chain? I don't think that this makes any sense, cell phone providers don't need to store identities in a decentralized manner. I mean, it would be great if someone could described a very useful use case for this but I don't see one at the moment. Also, that's quite some money for a record keeping technology.
Another theory about what they are doing in not specifically bitcoin related. There are ways of using a blockchain to verify identity and perhaps do away with the need for sim cards. Getting rid of those sim cards is a desire of the phone industry.
But why using the block chain? I don't think that this makes any sense, cell phone providers don't need to store identities in a decentralized manner. I mean, it would be great if someone could described a very useful use case for this but I don't see one at the moment. Also, that's quite some money for a record keeping technology.
Another theory about what they are doing in not specifically bitcoin related. There are ways of using a blockchain to verify identity and perhaps do away with the need for sim cards. Getting rid of those sim cards is a desire of the phone industry.
I'm more interested to know when 21 will actually reveal what exactly they are doing? Anyone have any idea on this?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Well secrecy is usually kept just in case someone else tries to imitate them
That and if they will take a year or two they probably don't have all the specifics yet
Yup, this will still take quite some time. But there have to be people who know something. Otherwise this is just some guys throwing an incredible amount of money onto a company they don't even understand correctly,.... wait a minute... never mind.
I agree, this is long-term material. If this really materialises in some sort and becomes successful, this may prove to be beneficial to Bitcoin in maybe 3 years or so. I don't know their exact business model, but if they really invested this ton of money they better have a really really decent plan in place!
I'm more interested to know when 21 will actually reveal what exactly they are doing? Anyone have any idea on this?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Well secrecy is usually kept just in case someone else tries to imitate them
That and if they will take a year or two they probably don't have all the specifics yet
I'm more interested to know when 21 will actually reveal what exactly they are doing? Anyone have any idea on this?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Also, why the secrecy in the first place, what's the purpose?
Any guesses on when the first product or service will be released by 21 inc?
Well they're still doing mostly very basic research, I believe... But if I'd have to guess....? Maybe late 2016? Definitely not this year. These things could be still quite far down the road from here. You have to think of it as something that may impact Bitcoin in a very slow but big way (if it works out), rather than a slow pump that's over before the daily candle closes!
Any guesses on when the first product or service will be released by 21 inc?
Here is another thought on the subject (Reddit) : http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/336f1w/its_not_about_21_inc_its_all_about_qualcomm/
Again, this may be *the* killer app in the making. The thing we've been waiting for for years now. They wouldn't have invested that kind of VC money if there was no plan ready to put into action!
Here is another thought on the subject (Reddit) : http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/336f1w/its_not_about_21_inc_its_all_about_qualcomm/
Also it's Bitcoin ASICs get over it.
Mining on a smartphone scale just doesn't make any sense at all. It'll degrade the user experience by a ton (battery), also it doesn't make sense to implement a hard-wired one-purpose mining chip in a phone.
Baking that into an ASIC would be nonsense since all that can be done easily on the phones cpu. Why am I even telling you this, do you pretend to be tech illiterate?
Yeah you guessed it too, mining on a phone doesn't make sense either.
proof by reductio ad absurdum: It's a Bitcoin mining ASIC company, just like the others we've seen.
And why the long faces? Perhaps you get double the power efficiency or something.
Since they are playing this close, we might not know until they make an announcement.
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