Topic: Quantum computer could kill bitcoin (Read 361 times)

Quantum supremacy is not so near future and this computers are not for mass market. Fortunatly, there are new algos with quantum resistance

We're years away from tech being completed when ti comes to Quantum computers but still, the tech is frightening and could even harm Bitcoin or could easily help it secure it. Anyone watching Mr.Robot here ? On the last episode that formula on the table was for Quantum computer so yes, the world is racing to perfect and create one as soon as possible. Besides this , it won't be created to mine 10k btc in 30 seconds ,they want a quantum computers especially for the military zone ...so Bitcoin is not in harm that could be killed.

A Quantum computer has already been implemented by IBM since 2017. Google has recently announced their Quantum processor four weeks ago. The good news is about a dramatic (?) computational time reduction; the bad news is the possibility to crack the Blockchain algoritm with that much power. I believe the Quantum processing is the next step in Computer Sciences, and it will replace the current Intel CPUs in the upcoming 10 years. Therefore, the change is inevitable. Blockchain, however, will adapt and survive. Programmers will use that Quantum power to reinforce the algoritm, rather than to crack it.

Maybe squash other other technology is not the goal, the goal was just to make a super powerful computer to solve Genetics problems or Artificial Neuronal Networks, but lets remember bitcoin has been target of brute force attacks in the past, and if those hackers don't brute force the full network was because the hardware doesn't allow them to do it, but once we have the hardware to do it, then will be a big vulnerability.

Let's imagine one day we wake up and we see all the bitcoins moving to the same addy, in that scenario we can be sure some one already import all the privatekeys, and not even a fork can save us from that because all the addys would be already compromised.

I sincerely believe that technology is not created to squash another, nor destroy it. Yes, i am not discounting the fact that quantum computing might break bitcoin's security but i doubt it will be intended to do so. Besides, there's a lot of intelligence poured unto the security dynamics of bitcoin that it was able to convince tech experts that it is nearly hack proof. The cryptographic keys it utilizes are not really of a simple matter otherwise, it would have not survived this much time. People are crazy smart and greedy, there were certainly a lot of attempts to decrypt bitcoin wallets and even attack on the blockchain was surely tried but none succeeded. I'm sure even a quantum computer could not help as the bitcoin core continues to develop and address vulnerabilities such as what you have noted.

I think you are confused. More hashing power would not increase the efficiency of the network. To make it simple, if your laptop was the only computer mining on the network, it would find all blocks and thus validate all transactions of the network. It wouldn't be decentralized at all but it would work. We would have a new block every 10 minutes anyway as the difficulty would be adjusted to a ridiculously low level.

Mining is a competition and the incentive is the block reward. So, if a miner comes with a new solution which is more efficient (like what happened with ASIC's), the other miners will need to adopt the same solution to stay in the race. But if GPU's, FPGA's and ASIC's were never used for mining we would still be using CPU's and the network would be perfectly fine (actually, even better because more decentralized...)

maybe i oversimplified it for too simple an explanation.. kinda hard to ELI-5

and your right you can simplyfy the END RESULT base down. thats why a one qubit can be converted to 2bits.
thats IF you were to use quantum for a one directional binary problem.
 
hense why doing a hex/bin SHA problem it requires 4bits per hex but only 2qubits per hex. so "quantum" is only 2x more efficient at doing binary/hex problems.

but a binary transistor is only ever a 2base. only ever has been a 2 base. so its never been a 4 or 8 base.

as for the "physical phenomena" inside a transistor. well that just stores a value. HOW its stores it is NOT important. its the transportation inbetween transistors. along the mainboard/wires. as that is still electric.

imagine binary as 1 direction (1dimensional) stay still or go forward
->[]->1
so 0 is do nothing and 1 is go forward


then qubits are 3 directions (3 dimensions) stay still or go forward or left or right
    2
    |
->[]->1
    |
    3
so now a 0 is still do nothing. a 1 could be go forward, 2 is go left 3 is go right

or they could decide to stay with one dimension but where
0 do nothing
1 switch on transistor
2 do nothing at second transistor
3 switch on 2nd transistor
(which takes 1qubit to get to tell the second transistor, or 2 bits to achieve same result)
but thats just a waste of possible utility...

they are still trying to standardise how the 'switch' of a transister moves onto the next. because it needs standardisation (protocol) so that they can then mass produce consumer PC's that will then know what to do when being given quantum code

so they have the hardware but still deciding what to do with it.
at the moment they are not going for the one dimension where 3= switch on 2nd transistor. they are instead playing with go left or right (3 dimension)

sticking with 1 dimension where doing binary problems is limited.. just to be able to do 4base and convert it down to 2 base is a waste..
but multi option, dimension, choice, direction, vector problems can be easily handled which binary systems couldnt really handle opens up a whole new minefield of oppertunity. rather than just 2x transistor efficiency.

---

imagine it like this
for century you had one bit controling
-[]-
now you can adjust voltage of one qubit to either control
-[]-[]   (limited utility as binary could do same with 2bits)
or
      /[]
-[]Ξ-[]  (imagine the posibilities)
      \[]

Yes ... actually a really difficult question. Rather not difficult and unpleasant ... Quat computer is really dangerous for bitcoin ... and not only for this. And the worst thing is that now you can not do anything to save bitcoin ... this thing will be damn powerful.
So it remains only with horror to expect how the events will unfold in the near future ...

As you say, all of them use SHA256, but lets remember SHA1 was already vulned, now we use sha256 and feel secure, but there are some more complex SHA's now days, we have SHA512 and SHA3, and they was made for the moment that some one can exploit SHA256 just like it happened with SHA1.

Let me leave a nice article here about what i'm talking about:
https://www.coindesk.com/who-broke-the-sha1-algorithm-and-what-does-it-mean-for-bitcoin/

The same hashing algorithm (SHA256) used to encrypt Bitcoin is also used by the banks and military.

If it's cracked by quantum computers, Bitcoin is the least of our worries.

Quantum computing is still rather a theoretical concept than a real construct. You may hear it in the news here and there about one company or another running a few (dozen) qubits for a few seconds or minutes at best, and then people start crying about quantum computers taking over the world, not even speaking of compromising all cryptographic algos in existence today. But the reality is not as bright as news outlets pretend it to be, and what they call a quantum computer may be more like an abacus when compared to a real one. Okay, let that be a calculator if you are not happy with my example.

Thanks for your replies guys, after reading all of them i realized there is not a big risk at all. I was thinking a really powerful computer could bruteforce bitcoin, but looks like i was wrong, maybe that's possible but not with quantum computers, lets wait other 10 years, to see the new generation computers, maybe those ones would be the real risk. 

I'm not sure what to make of that. As I see it, you are just suggesting to use calculations based not on just 2 digits (binary calculations) but on a higher base (4, 8, ...). Honestly, I don't see any difference here, as whatever base you use, you can always simplify it to the binary notation without losing anything. Are you certain that your understanding of quantum computing is correct? Personally, I always thought it has more to do with using some physical phenomena (actually, quantum phenomena) to make calculations and get relevant results. In other words, you do not calculate in the usual way like 2+2 but use some quantum effects which kind of do calculations for you, and then you just write down the result.

Briefly, it is very different from using your fingers to calculate a sum, which is what "normal" computing comes down to (no matter what base you use).

Yes, I agree to that. It's very doubtful that bitcoin can be destroyed easily by that new technology because we all known that bitcoin system is one of the newly high technology which is decentralized and can operate without the acknowledgement of others even by the third party. It can stand and operates with it's own system and probably it is designed with it's own system and different from others.

solving binary problems such as SHA, d-wave is not that great at.
quantum is better at non binary things.

for instance. instead of just binary(2 option): on off, yes no, stay go, true false

quantum can do DNA..
0 A
1 C
2 G
4 T
and can map DNA better and recalculate it easily.

mapping
0 north
1 east
2 south
3 west
where as in binary it needs 2bits to do a single option like that
00 north
10 east
01 south
11 west

basically quantum 'bits' are only 2x efficient than binary bits when it comes to binary problems.
but quantum can be more efficient at other things non binary.

to all those wondering what quantum is.
if you brush asid all the wishy washy buzzwords of super positioning. multidimensions..

its simply instead of just 1 or 0 (binary) it uses 0 1 2 3

basically in binary 0volt is 0 and 1volt is 1
in quantum its more like
0volt 0.33volt 0.66volt 1volt

and now you'll start to understand it.
those doing quantum are deciding a 'standard'. such as do they call
0volt - bin0 boolean false
0.33v - bin01 boolean maybe not
0.66v - bin10 boolean maybe so
1volt - bin1 boolean true
or some other mixture that becomes standardised for how they use a qubit

secondly they are still figuring out and deciding how many qubits to use together to standardise a qubyte
..
imagine it like morse code. decades of just monotone of . and _  and now they are realising it can be a high-pitch toned . or a low toned . and same for _
they are still trying to work out what to do with 4 options instead of 2 and then deciding how many dots and dashes represent a word.

which is why they say it will be a decade before they have a 'quantum PERSONAL computer' because they are still at the standardising what was a on of switch(binary) to now being a 4 option dimmer switch(quantum)

I can't say that I'm very well familiar with quantum computing or the science behind it, but as far as I know, quantum computing is only applicable to a rather narrow spectrum of tasks. Well, it seems that breaking encrypting algos falls right into its scope of problem solving, but not all encrypting algorithms are created equal. So it looks more like an urban legend or myth that such computers once they come about will render the whole cryptography irrelevant. This is obviously not the case and in reality the devil is not as black as he is painted. This is what I think. If I'm missing something or just say something wrong, you are welcome to correct me on this matter!

I don't think it will take a lot of time to change an underlying algo once it becomes "endangered".

I am not that techie but I have got one point here to ask !

Why everyone keeps thinking that when Quantum computers will be launched they will kill the bitcoin ?

Why not think in positive ways and say that if Quantum computers come online then we can use them to Solve the complex algorithm easily and then use these computers in the MINING operations ?

This can ease all the operations and may reduce the energy consumption and thus may help to take the blockchain or crypto currencies to the next level and have them used everywhere.

Why hacking and all the shit, when it comes to the power of Quantum Computing. LOLZ.

It's nonsense. A quantum computer simply cannot process the bitcoin algorithm and therefore cannot mine coins.

I am just wondering if we can put delayed login, means whether your password is correct or not, will check be checked after 60 seconds and then you need to wait for 60 seconds for a login.
Individual can wait for 60 second but QC will require 60 million second to verify 1 million possible passwords.