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Topic: Quark community development project proposal - add your thoughts (Read 2259 times)

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0

I would certainly not rule out partial payment in crypto, but maintain that fiat currency is a must if you are seeking a professional - this is what they do for a living and (sadly) you can't pay the rent/mortgage/utility bills in Quark (or bitcoin for that matter). However, if the development work is to be done on a hobby/as-and-when-time-allows basis then crypto bounties are fine, but I can't see that supporting a concerted effort to lift a coin out of the doldrums.


I would take things as they are: Quark - like all other Altcoins - is an experiment, they are not (yet) serious business even if some pretend it to be different. I would even argue that this can be said for Bitcoin. I rather prefer a hobby developer who needs more time to do things but is dedicated to the project than a professional who only works once he or she gets paid in fiat.

I also say this because the developers aren´t the only ones who make a currency successful and invest time into the project: without good promo, good networking, good miners etc. the currency is anything but just another quick trade. So the same as you are right with arguing that the developers need money for a living you can say that core members need money for a living. We all do it in our sparetime as a donation to the community and everyone who holds theoretically profits.

So, yes, I would rather go the "indie" way than another. Imho the only projects who can afford to pay out "real" saleries are those with large IPOs or comparable approaches (Darkcoin etc.). While this is definitely an approach that can be promising (can also be used to exploit) I think it is still worth a try to start with community driven payments. There is a lot of competition on the market but even promising coins with professional backing may and will disappear in a while because the hype is "burned out" so I personally think it is worth giving it a try with internally raised funds and a slowly but steady progress.

I wouldn´t rule out BTC payments instead of QRK entirely (especially when it comes to a grand overhaul process of the currency) but I would give it definitely a lower priority and prefer to work with people who trust in the value of the community. We already have some of those on board and if we manage to keep the exchange with Max Guevara running we will be able to get those people more involved when it comes to core developent.

Taking the final paragraph first. BTC has a clear route to fiat which would (IMO) make a big difference in terms of attracting expertise to the project. I accept BitCoin (and am also considering other alt-currencies) in payment for both design work and fine art sales, including for the latter, the shipping and insurance costs which for the larger works can get quite expensive.

I very much agree with your observations that these are early days for alt-currencies, that all alt-currencies, including BitCoin, are experimental. And also that expert programming is not the only factor to contribute to the success of a currency. However, there always is one Wink , poor programming can (as we have seen on numerous occasions) bring a coin to a dead stop which no amount of marketing, mining nor good will from the community will resolve. Here I see the recovery time as being critical lest the community drifts away. A hobbyist developer may not be in a position to act nor be able guarantee their work, whereas a professional would, especially if a formal contract has been agreed.

I hope that things pick up for Quark and look forward to making my first Quark sale!


 
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
@cryptohunter

After reading through again I can say i like a lot of the ideas.
I will say though that a super block creation would solve all of this can we all give 5-10% please.  It is essentially like everyone giving 5-10% but not only that they will be getting an exact proportional reward to what they are giving. It is the fairest way. A time machine back to what should have been done at the start. However, if everyone is willing to give 5-10% of their qrk let's go for it. I'll go last of course just to make sure everyone else does too Smiley

Re: superblock: You are right, the distribution would effectively be the same, or even: more fair. I also agree on the point that the option to change of the code shouldn´t be exclude and is most likely inevitable. However, I believe that changing the distribution is different to changing the code as it
a) directly manipulates the price
b) could be concepted as "marketcap bumping"
c) creates insecurity in the community with regard to price stability (the money that we redistribute could well be worth only 75% of what we assumed to collect because people sell off)
d) it would be a can opener (if people do it once, what keeps them from doing it twice)

All in all I see your point, but I think we should rather raise the money from donations and I also believe that we CAN raise it from donations if we make the community aware of the neccesity and potential of this step.

We certainly need to find a solution how to handle this huge amount of money trustless. I thought that probably smart-contracts could help here. What do you think? Maybe multisignatures?


Quote
I like the qrk foundation fees idea.

I like the ROI implementation ideas.

I love the board that will reward active and useful contributions.

Good to hear Smiley


Quote
I still think the pos companion coin with QRK only IPO has a lot of merit, and if the superblock idea is rejected then i would really like to see a real examination of the pros and cons for this. I see only pros. I do not see the merged mining idea that has been proposed has many pros. Actually other than possibly helping to secure the chain is see no positives for qrk holders or the current qrk community right now.  

To me that would make sense if a group of us would like to "leave Quark" because that would be effectively what would happen. Your argument that this coin wouldn´t be more competition than other coins is partwise valid to me, but it certainly makes a difference if competition comes from "within" the community than if it comes from outside. As I wrote: I am not convinced of the companion coin idea as long as their are no real distinguishing features and the more I think about it, I don´t see how to find distinguishing features at all. If we create a companion coin there will always be the elephant in the room "What for?" and if the only answer to this question is: "to fix hashrate" then this won´t contribute either to value nor to greater community participation.

So all in all I stay critical towards the merge mining idea, while I still believe that the hashrate needs to be fixed. However, if we start this great initiative there may well be the chance that we manage to mobilize more Quarkers to leave the Wallet open an mine with 2 cores to support the network. It is sort of a chicken egg situation and I would currently rather opt for fixing community (and by that: price) stability first and then take care of more initiatives to push hashrate. We have good things going on (for instance a pool where 1% of your income is invested in a lottery that allows for big gains), we certainly need to mobilize people from the community to get things going, but first and foremost we need to gain trust.

@victzhang

Glad to hear that. As I wrote, we should discuss solutions how to handle massive amounts of money without having one person who can theoretically dump it all as this would undermine trust.


This won't happen, it was asked when mining was implemented in the wallet. It's not the way to solve the problem, maybe in the beginning but people will drop off, not a solid plan. Same goes for asking for donations, not sure how you want get millions of quarks through that. Even lets say you manage to get 500k, but thats just $6k.

sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
@cryptohunter

After reading through again I can say i like a lot of the ideas.
I will say though that a super block creation would solve all of this can we all give 5-10% please.  It is essentially like everyone giving 5-10% but not only that they will be getting an exact proportional reward to what they are giving. It is the fairest way. A time machine back to what should have been done at the start. However, if everyone is willing to give 5-10% of their qrk let's go for it. I'll go last of course just to make sure everyone else does too Smiley

Re: superblock: You are right, the distribution would effectively be the same, or even: more fair. I also agree on the point that the option to change of the code shouldn´t be exclude and is most likely inevitable. However, I believe that changing the distribution is different to changing the code as it
a) directly manipulates the price
b) could be concepted as "marketcap bumping"
c) creates insecurity in the community with regard to price stability (the money that we redistribute could well be worth only 75% of what we assumed to collect because people sell off)
d) it would be a can opener (if people do it once, what keeps them from doing it twice)

All in all I see your point, but I think we should rather raise the money from donations and I also believe that we CAN raise it from donations if we make the community aware of the neccesity and potential of this step.

We certainly need to find a solution how to handle this huge amount of money trustless. I thought that probably smart-contracts could help here. What do you think? Maybe multisignatures?


Quote
I like the qrk foundation fees idea.

I like the ROI implementation ideas.

I love the board that will reward active and useful contributions.

Good to hear Smiley


Quote
I still think the pos companion coin with QRK only IPO has a lot of merit, and if the superblock idea is rejected then i would really like to see a real examination of the pros and cons for this. I see only pros. I do not see the merged mining idea that has been proposed has many pros. Actually other than possibly helping to secure the chain is see no positives for qrk holders or the current qrk community right now.  

To me that would make sense if a group of us would like to "leave Quark" because that would be effectively what would happen. Your argument that this coin wouldn´t be more competition than other coins is partwise valid to me, but it certainly makes a difference if competition comes from "within" the community than if it comes from outside. As I wrote: I am not convinced of the companion coin idea as long as their are no real distinguishing features and the more I think about it, I don´t see how to find distinguishing features at all. If we create a companion coin there will always be the elephant in the room "What for?" and if the only answer to this question is: "to fix hashrate" then this won´t contribute either to value nor to greater community participation.

So all in all I stay critical towards the merge mining idea, while I still believe that the hashrate needs to be fixed. However, if we start this great initiative there may well be the chance that we manage to mobilize more Quarkers to leave the Wallet open an mine with 2 cores to support the network. It is sort of a chicken egg situation and I would currently rather opt for fixing community (and by that: price) stability first and then take care of more initiatives to push hashrate. We have good things going on (for instance a pool where 1% of your income is invested in a lottery that allows for big gains), we certainly need to mobilize people from the community to get things going, but first and foremost we need to gain trust.

@victzhang

Glad to hear that. As I wrote, we should discuss solutions how to handle massive amounts of money without having one person who can theoretically dump it all as this would undermine trust.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
I like everything you said. We need reforms  Cool
I will be glad to support the foundation and donate my quarks if your plans come true.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
After reading through again I can say i like a lot of the ideas.
I will say though that a super block creation would solve all of this can we all give 5-10% please.  It is essentially like everyone giving 5-10% but not only that they will be getting an exact proportional reward to what they are giving. It is the fairest way. A time machine back to what should have been done at the start. However, if everyone is willing to give 5-10% of their qrk let's go for it. I'll go last of course just to make sure everyone else does too Smiley

I like the qrk foundation fees idea.

I like the ROI implementation ideas.

I love the board that will reward active and useful contributions.

I still think the pos companion coin with QRK only IPO has a lot of merit, and if the superblock idea is rejected then i would really like to see a real examination of the pros and cons for this. I see only pros.

I do not see the merged mining idea that has been proposed has many pros. Actually other than possibly helping to secure the chain is see no positives for qrk holders or the current qrk community right now. 


hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
I don't have much to add, you guys probably know better than me, very interesting ideas here. Keep it up peeps
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
This is a very interesting topic i will be reading it through a few times before commenting. However i am 100% with you that something needs to be done.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250

I would certainly not rule out partial payment in crypto, but maintain that fiat currency is a must if you are seeking a professional - this is what they do for a living and (sadly) you can't pay the rent/mortgage/utility bills in Quark (or bitcoin for that matter). However, if the development work is to be done on a hobby/as-and-when-time-allows basis then crypto bounties are fine, but I can't see that supporting a concerted effort to lift a coin out of the doldrums.


I would take things as they are: Quark - like all other Altcoins - is an experiment, they are not (yet) serious business even if some pretend it to be different. I would even argue that this can be said for Bitcoin. I rather prefer a hobby developer who needs more time to do things but is dedicated to the project than a professional who only works once he or she gets paid in fiat.

I also say this because the developers aren´t the only ones who make a currency successful and invest time into the project: without good promo, good networking, good miners etc. the currency is anything but just another quick trade. So the same as you are right with arguing that the developers need money for a living you can say that core members need money for a living. We all do it in our sparetime as a donation to the community and everyone who holds theoretically profits.

So, yes, I would rather go the "indie" way than another. Imho the only projects who can afford to pay out "real" saleries are those with large IPOs or comparable approaches (Darkcoin etc.). While this is definitely an approach that can be promising (can also be used to exploit) I think it is still worth a try to start with community driven payments. There is a lot of competition on the market but even promising coins with professional backing may and will disappear in a while because the hype is "burned out" so I personally think it is worth giving it a try with internally raised funds and a slowly but steady progress.

I wouldn´t rule out BTC payments instead of QRK entirely (especially when it comes to a grand overhaul process of the currency) but I would give it definitely a lower priority and prefer to work with people who trust in the value of the community. We already have some of those on board and if we manage to keep the exchange with Max Guevara running we will be able to get those people more involved when it comes to core developent.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
‘Try to be nice’
however I support everything you said.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
‘Try to be nice’
unfortunately i'm the guy that doesn't see a huge problem - price goes down and people start getting a bit "island" on everyone.

however i think the hash could be looked at and to this degree we should come to a solution - i personally welcome anyone's opinion.

some points :

- I don't think the old type of democracy fits cryptocurrency 

- nothing has been done or achieved though a "democracy type vote"

- one PCP one vote.

- free market chaos.

centralized crypto play a short game the long game belongs to the real cryptos, the centralized game is a very old one, its built on "confidence and faith"

unfortunately both are shifting.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
‘Try to be nice’

Quote
Let's be serious now. Every good effort for the good of Quark community is welcome.



I made new Quark Wallet and simple page at http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/  with latest libraries used.   Direct link on Windows wallet at

                                                      http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/quarkcoin-0.8.3.24.zip

Everybody could try it!



My work can be supported with donation (if you like it) to  QuarkCoin WalletAddress:    


                                                                      QgTsq3KKoCRBqzY7Z9WqHiNErP6yghky1S

Sorry to ask like this, but how come noone know about this wallet project? Just because I won´t install wallets from unknown sources.

EDIT: also forgot to ask: what is the purpose of the Wallet and what are the differences to the original Wallet?


Source code for QuarkCoin is taken from the original MaxGuevara github. Source codes for all other libraries are from their websites. All source codes are latest versions except for Qt which is one version before last one.

So, this QuarkCoin Wallet contains all the latest features (and bug corrections ofc)  Smiley

I worked hard to set up all for compilations at Windows (not at Linux) and researched many other configurations. Maybe all that work is not needed for Linux cross-compilations. Smiley


Max and another C++ coder where just working on this are you talking about update ?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
This post is dedicated to Quark community members but you can certainly apply the proposal to your own community if you are not holding any Quarks, so feel free to read and contribute Wink


Quark Development: Paying developers - easy as that


Probably the shortest bullet point: If we want good developers I believe they should get paid. This raises their stakes and own interest in the currency. However, I neither believe that this payment should happen via a massive premine (as has been carried out by many currencies) nor as one single payout, but as a payment on a regular basis (e.g. quarterly) after reporting the work that has been done (see also Expense allowance below).  Also development shouldn´t be kept in the hands of a single person that has no obligations towards the community as it contradicts the idea of decentralization.

As I mentioned, feel free to comment on whatever aspect you like. I am interested in any sort of discussion Wink

Spot on! I would add that payment should be fiat currency (at reasonable commercial rates) with a bounty in the crypto-currency offered as an optional alternative, or perhaps a 50/50 split. C++ programming skills are not arrived at easily and should be rewarded appropriately. The dev team should also include at least one member whose primary role focused on supporting and maintaining the community; marketing the currency and communicating the goals are equally important as technical development.

No, I am strongly against paying a developer in fiat. Why would any community do that? We need developers who are dedicated to Quark. If they believe in the future of the currency they will be fine with a decent salery in QRK. If they prefer Fiat they obviously aren't interested in long term involvement or don't trust in the project. In both cases I wouldn't opt for this dev.

I would certainly not rule out partial payment in crypto, but maintain that fiat currency is a must if you are seeking a professional - this is what they do for a living and (sadly) you can't pay the rent/mortgage/utility bills in Quark (or bitcoin for that matter). However, if the development work is to be done on a hobby/as-and-when-time-allows basis then crypto bounties are fine, but I can't see that supporting a concerted effort to lift a coin out of the doldrums.



sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Source code for QuarkCoin is taken from the original MaxGuevara github. Source codes for all other libraries are from their websites. All source codes are latest versions except for Qt which is one version before last one.

So, this QuarkCoin Wallet contains all the latest features (and bug corrections ofc)  Smiley

I worked hard to set up all for compilations at Windows (not at Linux) and researched many other configurations. Maybe all that work is not needed for Linux cross-compilations. Smiley

Uhm, so you basically compiled the github sources? So how does it differ from the current releases that are hosted on qrk.cc?

Also, maybe we should keep this away from this discussion because it is not directly related.
hero member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 608
Vave.com - Crypto Casino

Quote
Let's be serious now. Every good effort for the good of Quark community is welcome.



I made new Quark Wallet and simple page at http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/  with latest libraries used.   Direct link on Windows wallet at

                                                      http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/quarkcoin-0.8.3.24.zip

Everybody could try it!



My work can be supported with donation (if you like it) to  QuarkCoin WalletAddress:    


                                                                      QgTsq3KKoCRBqzY7Z9WqHiNErP6yghky1S

Sorry to ask like this, but how come noone know about this wallet project? Just because I won´t install wallets from unknown sources.

EDIT: also forgot to ask: what is the purpose of the Wallet and what are the differences to the original Wallet?


Source code for QuarkCoin is taken from the original MaxGuevara github. Source codes for all other libraries are from their websites. All source codes are latest versions except for Qt which is one version before last one.

So, this QuarkCoin Wallet contains all the latest features (and bug corrections ofc)  Smiley

I worked hard to set up all for compilations at Windows (not at Linux) and researched many other configurations. Maybe all that work is not needed for Linux cross-compilations. Smiley

sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
This post is dedicated to Quark community members but you can certainly apply the proposal to your own community if you are not holding any Quarks, so feel free to read and contribute Wink


Quark Development: Paying developers - easy as that


Probably the shortest bullet point: If we want good developers I believe they should get paid. This raises their stakes and own interest in the currency. However, I neither believe that this payment should happen via a massive premine (as has been carried out by many currencies) nor as one single payout, but as a payment on a regular basis (e.g. quarterly) after reporting the work that has been done (see also Expense allowance below).  Also development shouldn´t be kept in the hands of a single person that has no obligations towards the community as it contradicts the idea of decentralization.

As I mentioned, feel free to comment on whatever aspect you like. I am interested in any sort of discussion Wink

Spot on! I would add that payment should be fiat currency (at reasonable commercial rates) with a bounty in the crypto-currency offered as an optional alternative, or perhaps a 50/50 split. C++ programming skills are not arrived at easily and should be rewarded appropriately. The dev team should also include at least one member whose primary role focused on supporting and maintaining the community; marketing the currency and communicating the goals are equally important as technical development.


No, I am strongly against paying a developer in fiat. Why would any community do that? We need developers who are dedicated to Quark. If they believe in the future of the currency they will be fine with a decent salery in QRK. If they prefer Fiat they obviously aren't interested in long term involvement or don't trust in the project. In both cases I wouldn't opt for this dev.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
And think about creating a contract that include details of exactly what the developer is required to do, the timescale and sign-off procedures.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
This post is dedicated to Quark community members but you can certainly apply the proposal to your own community if you are not holding any Quarks, so feel free to read and contribute Wink


Quark Development: Paying developers - easy as that


Probably the shortest bullet point: If we want good developers I believe they should get paid. This raises their stakes and own interest in the currency. However, I neither believe that this payment should happen via a massive premine (as has been carried out by many currencies) nor as one single payout, but as a payment on a regular basis (e.g. quarterly) after reporting the work that has been done (see also Expense allowance below).  Also development shouldn´t be kept in the hands of a single person that has no obligations towards the community as it contradicts the idea of decentralization.

As I mentioned, feel free to comment on whatever aspect you like. I am interested in any sort of discussion Wink

Spot on! I would add that payment should be fiat currency (at reasonable commercial rates) with a bounty in the crypto-currency offered as an optional alternative, or perhaps a 50/50 split. C++ programming skills are not arrived at easily and should be rewarded appropriately. The dev team should also include at least one member whose primary role focused on supporting and maintaining the community; marketing the currency and communicating the goals are equally important as technical development.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
BTMan
QUARK COIN IS VERY GOOD FOR CPU MINER.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Like reading the newspapers from the last page. Smiley

It seems you are betting on the price fall. Smiley


Not betting, just looking on numbers. I never held a lot of Quarks and I don´t mind to buy the same amount again for this project. Most of my contribution was related to time I spent discussing and work that I have done.

Quote
I made new Quark Wallet and simple page at http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/  with latest libraries used.  
Everybody could try it!


Sorry to ask like this, but how come noone know about this wallet project? Just because I won´t install wallets from unknown sources.

EDIT: also forgot to ask: what is the purpose of the Wallet and what are the differences to the original Wallet?
hero member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 608
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
This post is dedicated to Quark community members but you can certainly apply the proposal to your own community if you are not holding any Quarks, so feel free to read and contribute Wink

...


I´d personally give all my Quarks into this project and buy an equal amount from the market. How bout you?

As I mentioned, feel free to comment on whatever aspect you like. I am interested in any sort of discussion Wink


Like reading the newspapers from the last page. Smiley

It seems you are betting on the price fall. Smiley


Let's be serious now. Every good effort for the good of Quark community is welcome.

I made new Quark Wallet and simple page at http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/  with latest libraries used.  Direct link on Windows wallet at

                                                      http://quarkcoin.orgfree.com/quarkcoin-0.8.3.24.zip

Everybody could try it!



My work can be supported with donation (if you like it) to  QuarkCoin WalletAddress:    


                                                                      QgTsq3KKoCRBqzY7Z9WqHiNErP6yghky1S

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