Topic: Rand Paul Thinks Bitcoin Should Be Backed By Stocks - page 2. (Read 3260 times)
People who suggest Bitcoin should be "backed" by something, be it gold, stocks or whatever, seldom say anything about how to do it practically. It can't be done without giving up the decentralization which is the whole point with Bitcoin. A central entity would have to hold the whole value of the Bitcoin-economy in gold/stocks/whatever. A central entity that can easily be attacked by governments. This has already been tried, it was called e-gold. We all know how that went down...
The Pauls keep letting me down. Maybe it's the generation gap.
Do I even need to say it: he obviously doesn't quite "get" Bitcoin.
I was really surprised by his comments.
The second reading wasn't quite as bad.
Edit:
He certainly doesn't have much time to read up about BTC.
Maybe some of us should email his office info about crypto...?
Why can't we elect doctors instead of warriors?
I haven't done a heavy amount of research into this but I think you'll find most of the people in American politics just join the army for the political points and didn't even really fight in the wars most of the time, people like Dick Cheney for example bragged about his time as a POW but really if they're being treated relatively humanely that's nothing compared to getting shot at constantly in a war zone as most armies will keep their prisoners far away from the fighting.
It's a bit like declaring how religious you are, in America voters just love that stuff so the politicians will do whatever they can to make themselves look good, these guys will do almost anything if it kept their career going, but yes, you're right, if we elected doctors, mathematicians ( Putting them in charge of the economy instead of economists ) and scientists, our countries would be in a much better place.
I think Rand Paul heard something vaguely somewhere about DACs and stock issuance via blockchain, didn't understand it, and in his mind flipped it around into the notion of bitcoin being backed by stocks. His last sentence is what suggested that to me.
Why can't we elect doctors instead of warriors?
Here's another article that touches BTC and Rand Paul pertaining to when an executive in Silicon Valley asked him about it in recent times. And considering he's the Ace for liberty that will likely run for President and actually have serious shot at it, it's worth a read: http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/01/technology/rand-paul-silicon-valley.pr.fortune/index.html
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Rand Paul, the undeclared yet arguably front-running Republican presidential contender, was trying to impress 40 young tech executives and entrepreneurs. Over happy-hour beers in San Francisco earlier this spring, the Kentucky insurgent fielded standard-issue queries on his opposition to National Security Agency spying practices and the Affordable Care Act. But Chris Morton, co-founder of BlockScore, an online fraud-prevention company, asked a question that tested Paul's tech chops: What did the senator think of Bitcoin?
Turns out that not only was Paul enthusiastic about its possibilities, but before its recent troubles he had asked his staff to explore how he might go about accepting campaign contributions in the digital currency. "People were impressed," said 29-year-old Garrett Johnson, the founder of SendHub and the organizer of the event.
Wooing the Patagonia-wearing, Blue Bottle coffee-sipping denizens of Silicon Valley, and especially San Francisco, may seem like a fool's errand for much of the GOP, but not for Paul, who recently made his second swing through the Bay Area in as many years. Indeed, his libertarian leanings, which can rankle Republican Party pooh-bahs, resonate in the Valley, where folks are messianic about private enterprise's potential to solve all the world's challenges. (Exhibit A: Google CEO Larry Page saying he'd rather bequeath his wealth to entrepreneur Elon Musk than to philanthropy.) Among the technorati, Paul's willingness to engage ideas outside the mainstream isn't a liability -- it's his strongest virtue.
On his recent trip in late March, he talked like a native too: publicly delivering a harangue against the federal surveillance regime at Berkeley, which earned him two standing ovations in the liberal stronghold, and privately dropping by investor Tim Draper's entrepreneurship school and gamely entertaining the billionaire's quixotic pitch for splitting California into six states. (Paul says he's dubious but hasn't formed an opinion.)
It's all part of Paul's high-stakes gambit to expand the GOP's appeal in precincts generally hostile to conservatives. "I see almost unlimited potential for us in Silicon Valley," Paul tells Fortune in an April interview in his Capitol Hill office after his trip. "Many more of them are libertarian-leaning Republicans than they are Democrats, and they may not know it yet."
Turns out that not only was Paul enthusiastic about its possibilities, but before its recent troubles he had asked his staff to explore how he might go about accepting campaign contributions in the digital currency. "People were impressed," said 29-year-old Garrett Johnson, the founder of SendHub and the organizer of the event.
Wooing the Patagonia-wearing, Blue Bottle coffee-sipping denizens of Silicon Valley, and especially San Francisco, may seem like a fool's errand for much of the GOP, but not for Paul, who recently made his second swing through the Bay Area in as many years. Indeed, his libertarian leanings, which can rankle Republican Party pooh-bahs, resonate in the Valley, where folks are messianic about private enterprise's potential to solve all the world's challenges. (Exhibit A: Google CEO Larry Page saying he'd rather bequeath his wealth to entrepreneur Elon Musk than to philanthropy.) Among the technorati, Paul's willingness to engage ideas outside the mainstream isn't a liability -- it's his strongest virtue.
On his recent trip in late March, he talked like a native too: publicly delivering a harangue against the federal surveillance regime at Berkeley, which earned him two standing ovations in the liberal stronghold, and privately dropping by investor Tim Draper's entrepreneurship school and gamely entertaining the billionaire's quixotic pitch for splitting California into six states. (Paul says he's dubious but hasn't formed an opinion.)
It's all part of Paul's high-stakes gambit to expand the GOP's appeal in precincts generally hostile to conservatives. "I see almost unlimited potential for us in Silicon Valley," Paul tells Fortune in an April interview in his Capitol Hill office after his trip. "Many more of them are libertarian-leaning Republicans than they are Democrats, and they may not know it yet."
you know Ron is having a hard time too.
and he's a freakin doctor, albeit an old one.
Here's another article that touches BTC and Rand Paul pertaining to when an executive in Silicon Valley asked him about it in recent times. And considering he's the Ace for liberty that will likely run for President and actually have serious shot at it, it's worth a read: http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/01/technology/rand-paul-silicon-valley.pr.fortune/index.html
Quote
Rand Paul, the undeclared yet arguably front-running Republican presidential contender, was trying to impress 40 young tech executives and entrepreneurs. Over happy-hour beers in San Francisco earlier this spring, the Kentucky insurgent fielded standard-issue queries on his opposition to National Security Agency spying practices and the Affordable Care Act. But Chris Morton, co-founder of BlockScore, an online fraud-prevention company, asked a question that tested Paul's tech chops: What did the senator think of Bitcoin?
Turns out that not only was Paul enthusiastic about its possibilities, but before its recent troubles he had asked his staff to explore how he might go about accepting campaign contributions in the digital currency. "People were impressed," said 29-year-old Garrett Johnson, the founder of SendHub and the organizer of the event.
Wooing the Patagonia-wearing, Blue Bottle coffee-sipping denizens of Silicon Valley, and especially San Francisco, may seem like a fool's errand for much of the GOP, but not for Paul, who recently made his second swing through the Bay Area in as many years. Indeed, his libertarian leanings, which can rankle Republican Party pooh-bahs, resonate in the Valley, where folks are messianic about private enterprise's potential to solve all the world's challenges. (Exhibit A: Google CEO Larry Page saying he'd rather bequeath his wealth to entrepreneur Elon Musk than to philanthropy.) Among the technorati, Paul's willingness to engage ideas outside the mainstream isn't a liability -- it's his strongest virtue.
On his recent trip in late March, he talked like a native too: publicly delivering a harangue against the federal surveillance regime at Berkeley, which earned him two standing ovations in the liberal stronghold, and privately dropping by investor Tim Draper's entrepreneurship school and gamely entertaining the billionaire's quixotic pitch for splitting California into six states. (Paul says he's dubious but hasn't formed an opinion.)
It's all part of Paul's high-stakes gambit to expand the GOP's appeal in precincts generally hostile to conservatives. "I see almost unlimited potential for us in Silicon Valley," Paul tells Fortune in an April interview in his Capitol Hill office after his trip. "Many more of them are libertarian-leaning Republicans than they are Democrats, and they may not know it yet."
Turns out that not only was Paul enthusiastic about its possibilities, but before its recent troubles he had asked his staff to explore how he might go about accepting campaign contributions in the digital currency. "People were impressed," said 29-year-old Garrett Johnson, the founder of SendHub and the organizer of the event.
Wooing the Patagonia-wearing, Blue Bottle coffee-sipping denizens of Silicon Valley, and especially San Francisco, may seem like a fool's errand for much of the GOP, but not for Paul, who recently made his second swing through the Bay Area in as many years. Indeed, his libertarian leanings, which can rankle Republican Party pooh-bahs, resonate in the Valley, where folks are messianic about private enterprise's potential to solve all the world's challenges. (Exhibit A: Google CEO Larry Page saying he'd rather bequeath his wealth to entrepreneur Elon Musk than to philanthropy.) Among the technorati, Paul's willingness to engage ideas outside the mainstream isn't a liability -- it's his strongest virtue.
On his recent trip in late March, he talked like a native too: publicly delivering a harangue against the federal surveillance regime at Berkeley, which earned him two standing ovations in the liberal stronghold, and privately dropping by investor Tim Draper's entrepreneurship school and gamely entertaining the billionaire's quixotic pitch for splitting California into six states. (Paul says he's dubious but hasn't formed an opinion.)
It's all part of Paul's high-stakes gambit to expand the GOP's appeal in precincts generally hostile to conservatives. "I see almost unlimited potential for us in Silicon Valley," Paul tells Fortune in an April interview in his Capitol Hill office after his trip. "Many more of them are libertarian-leaning Republicans than they are Democrats, and they may not know it yet."
I would argue that it could be both scarce yet available to anyone who can type on a keyboard and press the enter key.
My bitcoin universe allows for each post on this message board to be represented in the block chain. Every twitter, every facebook post, every cookie stored on a computer, every command sent to an internet connected lightbulb to switch on and off. Maybe scarcity or value if you will, is eventually tied to status or importance. If the protocol is to enable a home security system, I'd want a rock solid layer of anonymity built into it. A mixer, allowing my wallet to track my own transactions but a trusted and lawful central authority, who would chase down evil doers who may have somehow hacked into my door lock... a messaging system that alerts all the cameras in a community to be on the lookout for... yet thinks-first before sending neighbors of the reporting house to their windows with shotguns... moral code built in through consensus, rulings such as no victim, no crime... dignity code protecting against embarrassment (such as this half-baked post), maybe it's the Ladies Tuesday Night card club and they get together to go over their neighborhood bitcoin reports... after all, we need to have something to do after so many jobs are replaced by bitcoin - meet the new job, same as the old job - only more fun, more neighborly, complete with a peer group who generally has been proven to care... otherwise bitcoin couldn't exist, Satoshi Social Contract. - perhaps a centralized know your customer node that dials emergency services when an alarm triggers... if the protocol were to represent shares in a company, I'd want wide open disclosure to... perhaps a limited audience... such as shareholders and regulators but not competitors.
Sorry for the ramble but I have a feeling this is a forum where I'll be forgiven
Has this been said yet?
My bitcoin universe allows for each post on this message board to be represented in the block chain. Every twitter, every facebook post, every cookie stored on a computer, every command sent to an internet connected lightbulb to switch on and off. Maybe scarcity or value if you will, is eventually tied to status or importance. If the protocol is to enable a home security system, I'd want a rock solid layer of anonymity built into it. A mixer, allowing my wallet to track my own transactions but a trusted and lawful central authority, who would chase down evil doers who may have somehow hacked into my door lock... a messaging system that alerts all the cameras in a community to be on the lookout for... yet thinks-first before sending neighbors of the reporting house to their windows with shotguns... moral code built in through consensus, rulings such as no victim, no crime... dignity code protecting against embarrassment (such as this half-baked post), maybe it's the Ladies Tuesday Night card club and they get together to go over their neighborhood bitcoin reports... after all, we need to have something to do after so many jobs are replaced by bitcoin - meet the new job, same as the old job - only more fun, more neighborly, complete with a peer group who generally has been proven to care... otherwise bitcoin couldn't exist, Satoshi Social Contract. - perhaps a centralized know your customer node that dials emergency services when an alarm triggers... if the protocol were to represent shares in a company, I'd want wide open disclosure to... perhaps a limited audience... such as shareholders and regulators but not competitors.
Sorry for the ramble but I have a feeling this is a forum where I'll be forgiven
Has this been said yet?
Quote
Bitcoin will free your mind ;->
Definitely not getting it. Bitcoin is backed by the thing that it already is. Backing requires trust. Most people dont get that bitcoin doesnt represent anything. It is the thing.
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
it is amazing isn't it?
having been involved since the beginning of 2011, i would've thought by now, especially after all the ramps in price and interest, that the general population would be able to comprehend basic Bitcoin principles. nope. sorry. the ignorance displayed everyday astounds me.
we really are still in the early adoption stages.
This really gets to the heart of bitcoin and the misconception most have.
Bitcoin's advantage is that it is a "trustless" system, and does not have any dependencies outside side of itself. Any and all dependencies represent weak points in a system. For example if there was a centralized ledger keeper such a keeper could block your transactions if you are deemed a traitor (example Snowden) or the keeper could effectively steal your wealth by creating more units (FED Reserve).
But society has changed so much over the years that people now think nothing is real unless it is blessed by the government and "backed" by something, but that backing could itself fail. That is the weak point of our credit based system today, everything is backed by promises which ultimately if the FED can't honer will breakdown.
Paul's comments regarding "pegging" bitcoin to something are equally absurd. To "peg" bitcoin to lets say the dollar requires an entity to be able to add and withdraw the supply of bitcoin to match current market demand to keep the peg.
Countries (such as Argentina) have time and time again tried to peg their currencies to the dollar, but the problem is at some point you run out of dollars to maintain the peg and there is a violent market correction. The only way the US Gov could maintain a peg to bitcoin if they have the ability to influence the supply of bitcoins. Since the US Gov does not have this ability, it is not possible to maintain a peg.
We've lived under manipulated markets for currencies for so long that no one remembers how a truly free market functions anymore.
I think this is very hard for people to grasp since a "scarce digital commodity" seems like an oxymoron at first.
scarce digital asset
even thinking of backing bitcoin by stocks is obsurd as stocks can be manipulated by corporations.
Already a company could created coloured coins that act as a sort of bearer certificate for the company's stocks. They could probably trade against bitcoins in a trustless way using coinjoin transactions. It would be a sort of decentralized stock exchange.
So we already have the ability to do what Rand Paul is suggesting. In fact, with bitcoin we can create digital tradeable IOUs for any asset we want.
Yet there is only one asset that is not someone else's liability--bitcoin itself. I think this is very hard for people to grasp since a "scarce digital commodity" seems like an oxymoron at first.
Definitely not getting it. Bitcoin is backed by the thing that it already is. Backing requires trust. Most people dont get that bitcoin doesnt represent anything. It is the thing.
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
it is amazing isn't it?
having been involved since the beginning of 2011, i would've thought by now, especially after all the ramps in price and interest, that the general population would be able to comprehend basic Bitcoin principles. nope. sorry. the ignorance displayed everyday astounds me.
we really are still in the early adoption stages.
Going to send him an email link to this thread.
Definitely not getting it. Bitcoin is backed by the thing that it already is. Backing requires trust. Most people dont get that bitcoin doesnt represent anything. It is the thing.
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
Its funny the way bitcoin is kind of a litmus test for a certain aptitude.
Rand....
Ron Paul's opinions on bitcoin reflect a broader crisis of misunderstanding that has simultaneously struck the libertarian movement and the Austrian School.
Of the latter, proponents of the Austrian school are not doing themselves any favors by steadfastly refusing to evolve their theories beyond a contemporary quasi-Cult-of-Personality based upon the founders. Antal Fekete, et al, have brilliantly attempted to bring the best aspects of Austrian theories into a modern, functional context (real bills of credit, hedging theories, etc), but his work often falls upon deaf ears because he does not dogmatically accept the gospel of the early Austrians. The modern Austrians, by blindly holding to ossified theories, are becoming as stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs as the Keynesians and Friedmanites.
Of the latter, proponents of the Austrian school are not doing themselves any favors by steadfastly refusing to evolve their theories beyond a contemporary quasi-Cult-of-Personality based upon the founders. Antal Fekete, et al, have brilliantly attempted to bring the best aspects of Austrian theories into a modern, functional context (real bills of credit, hedging theories, etc), but his work often falls upon deaf ears because he does not dogmatically accept the gospel of the early Austrians. The modern Austrians, by blindly holding to ossified theories, are becoming as stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs as the Keynesians and Friedmanites.
I've heard it stated more than once that the bitcoin protocol allows us to test each of these economic theories at an accelerated pace and may the best theories rise to the top! I'm sure in each theory there is plenty of truth and I suspect that there is no one size fits all, in our future bitcoin universe we'll probably examine the problem, requiring one economic theory or another as the best approach and someone will say 'there's a coin for that!'
fiat is backed by a promise and only a promise. which people trust. the only thing is that the promise can and has been broken many times.
bitcoin is based on maths. nothing can break maths.
even thinking of backing bitcoin by stocks is obsurd as stocks can be manipulated by corporations.
bitcoin is based on maths. nothing can break maths.
even thinking of backing bitcoin by stocks is obsurd as stocks can be manipulated by corporations.
Quote
And actually my theory, if I were setting it up, I’d make it exchangeable for stock.
Luckily bitcoin was not invested by him lol.
Ron Paul's opinions on bitcoin reflect a broader crisis of misunderstanding that has simultaneously struck the libertarian movement and the Austrian School.
Of the latter, proponents of the Austrian school are not doing themselves any favors by steadfastly refusing to evolve their theories beyond a contemporary quasi-Cult-of-Personality based upon the founders. Antal Fekete, et al, have brilliantly attempted to bring the best aspects of Austrian theories into a modern, functional context (real bills of credit, hedging theories, etc), but his work often falls upon deaf ears because he does not dogmatically accept the gospel of the early Austrians. The modern Austrians, by blindly holding to ossified theories, are becoming as stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs as the Keynesians and Friedmanites.
Of the latter, proponents of the Austrian school are not doing themselves any favors by steadfastly refusing to evolve their theories beyond a contemporary quasi-Cult-of-Personality based upon the founders. Antal Fekete, et al, have brilliantly attempted to bring the best aspects of Austrian theories into a modern, functional context (real bills of credit, hedging theories, etc), but his work often falls upon deaf ears because he does not dogmatically accept the gospel of the early Austrians. The modern Austrians, by blindly holding to ossified theories, are becoming as stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs as the Keynesians and Friedmanites.
He'll get it after a while I suppose. Rand, if you happen across this consider if the MERS mortgage title company had utilized the block chain to track ownership - for a legislator, that should be enough to get them thinking correctly.
For those who don't know, MERS was the unregulated organization that banks created to 1. forge signatures on mortgage docs 2. trade these documents bypassing local municipalities, in effect, stealing doc fees at the local level 3. double spend! there are cases of mortgages being held / claimed by multiple lenders... and other problems with that corrupt data base (MERS).
MERS scandal that could have been avoided with the bitcoin protocol: http://deadlyclear.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/wall-streets-mortgage-fraud-scandal-you-can-have-a-house-that-is-fully-paid-for-and-still-end-up-in-foreclosure/
"Wall Street’s Mortgage Fraud Scandal. 'You can have a house that is fully paid for and still end up in foreclosure”
Rand, what's the value of bitcoin now?
For those who don't know, MERS was the unregulated organization that banks created to 1. forge signatures on mortgage docs 2. trade these documents bypassing local municipalities, in effect, stealing doc fees at the local level 3. double spend! there are cases of mortgages being held / claimed by multiple lenders... and other problems with that corrupt data base (MERS).
MERS scandal that could have been avoided with the bitcoin protocol: http://deadlyclear.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/wall-streets-mortgage-fraud-scandal-you-can-have-a-house-that-is-fully-paid-for-and-still-end-up-in-foreclosure/
"Wall Street’s Mortgage Fraud Scandal. 'You can have a house that is fully paid for and still end up in foreclosure”
Rand, what's the value of bitcoin now?
gaud, that brings back bad memories.
so sad the robosigners they hired to do their dirty work as well. the banking system is so disgusting and deserves all the scorn we heap upon them everyday.
no wonder i've gone down the rabbit hole with Bitcoin.
Didn't mean to sour your meal sour, but you've got the cure in the last statement.
If you can stomach it, here's a relevant paragraph from the linked article:
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...As a result of MERS’ actions, coupled with an intricate network of document preparers, it has virtually caused clouds on over 60,000,000+ titles to property in every state in the United States. In doing so, its membership base has saved millions of dollars in recordation fees, by hiding behind MERS’ electronic wall. By doing so, it has deprived the counties of the United States millions upon millions of dollars in badly-needed recordation fees; necessary for not only maintenance of property records (one of the basic tenets of American wealth) but also for the funding of certain county services, which have then had to raise property taxes to accommodate the lack of funds or simply cut back on services it used to be able to pay for on its own...
not to mention all the interest rate derivatives they sold to municipalities country-wide who then had to pony up millions/billions as they manipulated Libor inexplicably lower thru the Fed.
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