Make the system irrelevant.
As rebel or what ?
Making a stampede on a system doesn't bring the best out from such. A system that is self working has a mechanism that even rebelling can't stop it flow.
Topic: Random Thoughts (Read 794 times)
As rebel or what ?
Making a stampede on a system doesn't bring the best out from such. A system that is self working has a mechanism that even rebelling can't stop it flow.
Modern (or postmodern) laws are a game, invented to amuse people who have sufficient firepower to enforce the rules of their game. Arbiters of those rules are called lawyers.
This question is for the lawyers:
What are the legalities attendant passing of the United States border with a disk full of pseudorandom......
If the disk’s owner is telling the truth, it cannot be proved that he is telling the truth.
In the first place , that game you called laws are not really under those whom you also called arbiters but they are existing for the purpose of interpreting what emanates from social contract where the people relinquish their individual and personal security for collective security in governance and rules are just one aspect of it
. That is, what Thomas Hobbes said without it, life will go back to natural state, short, nasty and brutish.... Second, for the lawyers; a lawsuit is going to be filed against an offender of the border lines for contravening, if a rule exist on it.
Third, a disk owner can be proved to be saying the truth by exhibits and preponderance of evidence he/she is tendering in the court.
I cross borders many times a year. I am "randomly selected for a in-depth search" 1 of every 3. Welcome to my world.
But they don't check the content of your disk?
Those are still high numbers!
Are you on some sort of list? o.o
Perhaps, I have a quite boring life but I know for a fact that there is someone in Mexico with a similar name that is on a list. My electronics devices are not searched, although I have been asked to turn them one of them once in a control.
Do you know what they did with it once they took it?
I cross borders many times a year. I am "randomly selected for a in-depth search" 1 of every 3. Welcome to my world.
[/quote]
But they don't check the content of your disk?
Those are still high numbers!
Are you on some sort of list? o.o
[/quote]
Perhaps, I have a quite boring life but I know for a fact that there is someone in Mexico with a similar name that is on a list. My electronics devices are not searched, although I have been asked to turn them one of them once in a control.
dunno folks, I suspect this whole border crossing charade will become increasingly anachronistic as the decade rolls on, not least driven by how much of a pain in the ass it's becoming (but also by new tech of various kinds)
How do you have a password you can't remember sober? What happens if you forget it? 
There are many ways to do this. 
Please elaborate
Every country in the modern world is like that. I'd say most are even worse.
That is not true, the U.S has the most complicated security measures of all countries that I am aware of, in 90% of boarders around the globe, the only security department that has the slightest interest in your electronic devices are the anti-hijacking guys. All they need to know is that your laptop has not been physically tempered and that it does not have say a knife in it, in most cases all they would ask you to do is to turn on that device, if it boots normally- you are free to go.
Having said that, I am certain that even in U.S you are unlikely to be checked unless you are being a suspect, no airport on planet earth has the human resources needed to perform such an intensive check, plus it's 2020 already, "illegal" data that might be searched for can be encrypted and "safely" sent over the internet, there is no incentives for "criminals" to carry such data with them to the airport.
Ohh, for the borders thing I agree.
I meant as a police state.
I mean, look at the UK, they're even trying to ban pointy knives.
Freedom of speech is almost non-existant.
Every country in the modern world is like that. I'd say most are even worse.
Definitely disagreed. Most of the countries in the west are better than the US, pretty much in every conceivable way.How do you have a password you can't remember sober? What happens if you forget it?
There are many ways to do this. 
Every country in the modern world is like that. I'd say most are even worse.
That is not true, the U.S has the most complicated security measures of all countries that I am aware of, in 90% of boarders around the globe, the only security department that has the slightest interest in your electronic devices are the anti-hijacking guys. All they need to know is that your laptop has not been physically tempered and that it does not have say a knife in it, in most cases all they would ask you to do is to turn on that device, if it boots normally- you are free to go.
Having said that, I am certain that even in U.S you are unlikely to be checked unless you are being a suspect, no airport on planet earth has the human resources needed to perform such an intensive check, plus it's 2020 already, "illegal" data that might be searched for can be encrypted and "safely" sent over the internet, there is no incentives for "criminals" to carry such data with them to the airport.
That's why you have passwords that you can't remember even when you're sober, let alone on some toxic chemicals.
If they really needed it they could use it, but doubt it would be used on a border.
If they needed the information that much they'd just pick you up somewhere.
I think the same goes for torture. Regular border cops wouldn't try so hard.
Although in general, you make a great point here. This is why I recommend staying away from the US and any country that applies US-like practices. It's a police state, a joke of a "democracy" at best.If they needed the information that much they'd just pick you up somewhere.
I think the same goes for torture. Regular border cops wouldn't try so hard.
Every country in the modern world is like that. I'd say most are even worse.
How do you have a password you can't remember sober? What happens if you forget it?
That's why you have passwords that you can't remember even when you're sober, let alone on some toxic chemicals.
If they really needed it they could use it, but doubt it would be used on a border.
If they needed the information that much they'd just pick you up somewhere.
I think the same goes for torture. Regular border cops wouldn't try so hard.
Although in general, you make a great point here. This is why I recommend staying away from the US and any country that applies US-like practices. It's a police state, a joke of a "democracy" at best. If they needed the information that much they'd just pick you up somewhere.
I think the same goes for torture. Regular border cops wouldn't try so hard.
People generally overestimate the amount of interest government has in them and their possessions at the border crossing... If there is anything worth knowing they either already know or do not care, and in a rare outlier cases I am sure their solution would be blunt and pragmatic 
They have a truth serum as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR2o928TJU8
If they really needed it they could use it, but doubt it would be used on a border.
If they needed the information that much they'd just pick you up somewhere.
I think the same goes for torture. Regular border cops wouldn't try so hard.
People generally overestimate the amount of interest government has in them and their possessions at the border crossing... If there is anything worth knowing they either already know or do not care, and in a rare outlier cases I am sure their solution would be blunt and pragmatic
The chances of your electronic device being searched at the boarder is low. In 2018, only about 33k people had their devices searched out of hundreds of millions of people entering the country.
The answer to your question is fairly simple, and does not matter which type of disk you are trying to cross the border with (and you do not allow CBP to see unencrypted data). (if the CBP attempts to search the disk)If you are a US citizen, you will eventually be allowed to enter the country, although you may first be detained. If you are not a US citizen or permanent resident, you will probably not be allowed to enter the country. CBP may make an image of the disk to try to decrypt it off site or possibly at a later time (for example if weaknesses of a particular encryption algorithm is discovered in the future). There is no law against carrying encrypted data across the border, and no requirement that you disclose any decryption keys.
The answer to your question is fairly simple, and does not matter which type of disk you are trying to cross the border with (and you do not allow CBP to see unencrypted data). (if the CBP attempts to search the disk)If you are a US citizen, you will eventually be allowed to enter the country, although you may first be detained. If you are not a US citizen or permanent resident, you will probably not be allowed to enter the country. CBP may make an image of the disk to try to decrypt it off site or possibly at a later time (for example if weaknesses of a particular encryption algorithm is discovered in the future). There is no law against carrying encrypted data across the border, and no requirement that you disclose any decryption keys.
That's a lot higher than I thought!
In light of this, if I was asked to show a border agent my electronic devices, I would gladly do so, knowing they don't contain any private information.
The chances of your electronic device being searched at the boarder is low. In 2018, only about 33k people had their devices searched out of hundreds of millions of people entering the country.
The answer to your question is fairly simple, and does not matter which type of disk you are trying to cross the border with (and you do not allow CBP to see unencrypted data). (if the CBP attempts to search the disk)If you are a US citizen, you will eventually be allowed to enter the country, although you may first be detained. If you are not a US citizen or permanent resident, you will probably not be allowed to enter the country. CBP may make an image of the disk to try to decrypt it off site or possibly at a later time (for example if weaknesses of a particular encryption algorithm is discovered in the future). There is no law against carrying encrypted data across the border, and no requirement that you disclose any decryption keys.
The answer to your question is fairly simple, and does not matter which type of disk you are trying to cross the border with (and you do not allow CBP to see unencrypted data). (if the CBP attempts to search the disk)If you are a US citizen, you will eventually be allowed to enter the country, although you may first be detained. If you are not a US citizen or permanent resident, you will probably not be allowed to enter the country. CBP may make an image of the disk to try to decrypt it off site or possibly at a later time (for example if weaknesses of a particular encryption algorithm is discovered in the future). There is no law against carrying encrypted data across the border, and no requirement that you disclose any decryption keys.
That's a lot higher than I thought!
...
The chances of the border police asking what's on your disk are probably around 1 in a million. At best.
...
The chances of the border police asking what's on your disk are probably around 1 in a million. At best.
...
I cross borders many times a year. I am "randomly selected for a in-depth search" 1 of every 3. Welcome to my world.
But they don't check the content of your disk?
Those are still high numbers!
Are you on some sort of list? o.o
civil disobediance needs to have many factors involved for success
for instance just doing a march along a non-important road with 500 different placards wanting 500 different changes wont get success.
organising it to affect the politicians would, organising a structured single message works. actually having a penalty for the politicians if they dont listen works
for instance threatening to not vote for a particular political party and threatening scheduled strikes on a regular occurrence while having petitions signed to prove the extent of the threats strength has alot more power than just some street procession/walk around
for instance just doing a march along a non-important road with 500 different placards wanting 500 different changes wont get success.
organising it to affect the politicians would, organising a structured single message works. actually having a penalty for the politicians if they dont listen works
for instance threatening to not vote for a particular political party and threatening scheduled strikes on a regular occurrence while having petitions signed to prove the extent of the threats strength has alot more power than just some street procession/walk around
Don’t Be Stupid
I generally contemn the concept of “civil disobedience”. That’s just a way for “TPTB” to induce potential troublemakers to paint targets on their own backs. You don’t win by incurring to yourself avoidable trouble for nothing. You win by making “TPTB” powerless over you: By keeping your privacy, appearing mostly harmless, and secretly doing whatever you wanted to do anyway. Open defiance gets you marked for life, when you are young and idealistic; and this limits your freedom of action in the future, when you otherwise may actually have become dangerous. The system works out neatly for itself. Make the system irrelevant.
I generally contemn the concept of “civil disobedience”. That’s just a way for “TPTB” to induce potential troublemakers to paint targets on their own backs. You don’t win by incurring to yourself avoidable trouble for nothing. You win by making “TPTB” powerless over you: By keeping your privacy, appearing mostly harmless, and secretly doing whatever you wanted to do anyway. Open defiance gets you marked for life, when you are young and idealistic; and this limits your freedom of action in the future, when you otherwise may actually have become dangerous. The system works out neatly for itself. Make the system irrelevant.
There are many cases where civil disobedience proved to be successful, without people willing to risk their comfortable ways of life authoritarians are more likely to push harder as they know they will face no resistance. OTOH, in the event of a violent revolution troublemakers will need safe houses owned or operated by people who don't stand out.
Crossing new borders with personal stuff is not a privacy matter because if there is a reasonable suspicion, then individuals can be searched in the interest of public safety. This can be affirmed by a proper law like the fourth amendment in usa, but the case is quite different in other countries. Individuals crossing border from Syria or Lybie, for exemple, are regurely subject of suspicion as police have to check every details/stuff provided by them and i can't blame.
...
The chances of the border police asking what's on your disk are probably around 1 in a million. At best.
...
The chances of the border police asking what's on your disk are probably around 1 in a million. At best.
...
I cross borders many times a year. I am "randomly selected for a in-depth search" 1 of every 3. Welcome to my world.
But that was TSA, right? Not CBP?
TSA only cares if you're carrying a bomb, a knife, or a bottle of Coke. They couldn't tell a hard drive from a dildo. CBP are the ones that you don't notice on departure and they ask stupid questions on arrival ("where you're going?" "how long is your stay?" "look at the camera").
BTW some airports have automated kiosks you answer stupid questions on a touch screen and just show a receipt to an agent (again, if you have the right passport / green card / visa waiver / etc).
Yup, I think it was TSA. I have never seen those CBP's do anything else than asking stupid questions like you say, except one that literally trolled me big time (a hilarious anecdote, but probably offtopic).
Anyway... I think the best advice is to just try to cooperate and never, ever, self-admit anything (such as if a headerless hard disk is encrypted or not) you know they could not really prove in a court. More so if we are talking about the US and you are not a citizen, don't dominate the language, and don't know all the rules such as LoyceV said.
Also... It is understandable they don't really care about data (or any digital goods) being "smuggled" into/out of the country in encrypted hard disks. It is not as if there were any difficulty in transferring that same data via other means (ie. Internet). And we are already in 2020, where everyone and their grandmother do have encrypted data and it is almost (if not more) as suspicious having a fully plaintext hard disk.
How about.. "I do not consent to this search and will exercise my right to remain silent." ... .. .. . "Am I being detained?"
That might not work if you aren't a US citizen though trying to enter the US..
That might not work if you aren't a US citizen though trying to enter the US..
Most rights granted by the constitution apply to both citizens and non-citizens.
It was my understanding as well that the US Constitution protects even non-citizens, thus they should have no right to do anything to you that they otherwise wouldn't to a US citizen. However, the US seems to be quite aligned with what I would consider an abusive police state. I'm quite sure depending on the circumstances, that they'd attempt to get it from you in one way of another. They might even let you inside the country and then later knock at the door wherever it is you're staying at.Maybe it is time to expand it.
Jump to: