Re: Bitcoin-QT client question - page 2.

klmist

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Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

It's possible.. make a transaction that has less output value than input value.. the difference would normally go to the miner as a large fee, but they don't have to collect it either.. if they don't claim it then the funds are truly gone. The original inputs have all been spent, but the equivalent value never arrived on any new outputs.

darkota

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Quote from: Tomatocage on June 03, 2014, 10:18:47 PM

It's a well known fact that 1GG3CLYd36tmU2X73rmHYzsTtaJcNwMcCC is the default address for destroying Bitcoins

*cough*

lollll

kuverty

sr. member

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Quote from: ?? on ??

what about lost address can i make 1000 new adress and hope some one to make that addressees ands send money to it

Yes, you can make for example ten million addresses very easily and then hope someone else makes the same address and uses it at some point. Is is extremely unlikely, anyway. You are better off if you get a word/phrase list and create bitcoin addresses from them using some popular way to do that. You would even actually make some money then, people scan these addresses right now. You can try this, generate a brainwallet with some trivial passphrase and send some money there, see how quickly it disappears.

To answer this thread, you cannot destroy bitcoins really but you can make them provably unspendable. Sending them to an address like 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr is an option, but it is possible that there is a private key that corresponds to that address and that someone finds the key, although it is not believable.

You still can make them provably impossible to spend, using the method described earlier on; that is, make them payable not to any address but to a script, you can make the script so that it is trivial to see the coins can never be spent.

ljudotina

legendary

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Yes. And chance of that happening is 0

Reference:

I just absolutely love this graphics.

ljudotina

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

If you lose your unique private-keys and no one else has a copy, your bitcoins are as good as gone...

BUT they still exist
The coins are still counted in the economy and still can be located on the blockchain via the address, right?

They "exist" but they can never ever be used, so they are out of the economy. You know, there is ALOT of gold in Universe, but it's not part of economy as we can not touch it. Existing != inside economy

Alphi

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Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

bitcoins do not exist so they cannot be destroyed.

the blockchain which exists on every computer that runs bitcoin software, is called that because its is a chain of blocks each made up of a group of transactions...
transactions have both inputs and outputs.. by subtracting the outputs from the inputs we can determine how many "coins" each address holds but as I understand it there are no actual values or properties stored in the blockchain that represent the coins themselves. The concept of coins (just like mining) is just a way of simplifying more complex abstract ideas so that they are easier for everyday people to understand.

since there are no actual coins.. they cannot be destroyed.

of course the block-chain could be destroyed if every computer running it was compromised somehow but that would be practically impossible... hence why the idea of peer to peer decentralized crypto currency is so fascinating for everyone who uses it.

findftp

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Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

Don't know if anybody else mentioned it already, but if you transfer them to 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr, they are lost forever.
This address already has 2000+ BTC in it which is lost forever.

JohnFromWIT

member

Activity: 112

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Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

I think you've already got an answer so I'll just join the throng not listening to your question and say:

Wasn't there a guy a year or two back saying he hated bitcoin so much, that he mined a ton at his place of work, just so he could through away the key.
To which everyone said "Do a flip!"

Unluckyduck

sr. member

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Just send all your bitcoins to an address that hasn't been created yet and boom they are technically impossible to recover.

jl2012

legendary

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Quote from: CryptoCurrencyInc.com on June 11, 2014, 05:09:29 AM

Bitcoin is just an idea. It can't be destroy.

If Bitcoin is destroyed for some strange reasons, another cryptocurrency will emerge and take its place.

Are you trolling? We are talking bitcoin the currency, not Bitcoin the protocol

CryptoCurrencyInc.com

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Bitcoin is just an idea. It can't be destroy.

If Bitcoin is destroyed for some strange reasons, another cryptocurrency will emerge and take its place.

chaosPT

hero member

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Delete your private key and it will be all gone Wink

or give it to me Grin

Ilsk

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

If you lose your unique private-keys and no one else has a copy, your bitcoins are as good as gone...

It's like saying that if you put 100$ on a remote planet where is almost impossible to go the 100$ are destroyed

DeathAndTaxes

donator

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: jl2012 on June 10, 2014, 11:36:48 PM

Quote

Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/139c004f477101c468767983536caaeef568613fab9c2ed9237521f5ff530afd

Any problem with your calculator Huh

1 (1FC....) = 0.998 (1FC...) + 0.001 (destroyed) + 0.001 (fee)

Oops looks like I was misinformed ... and failed basic math.

jl2012

legendary

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Merit: 1111

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on June 10, 2014, 10:55:21 PM

I have recently learned that any output with OP_RETURN is excluded from the fee/balance calculations and thus the value of any OP_RETURN output is simply transferred to the miners as a fee.

Interesting.

Thanks for the update.

I'll make sure I keep that in mind when talking about OP_RETURN in the future.

So, it is possible to create an unspendable script, and thereby lock bitcoins up as permanently unspendable, but OP_RETURN is not the way to do it.

No, that's not true.

jl2012

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1111

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on June 10, 2014, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on June 03, 2014, 09:05:48 PM

Also note that transactions can be created that don't pay to an address, but rather pay to a script. In particular, you can use OP_RETURN to create an output that can never be spent. This script OP code is used specifically to mark an output as "invalid". As such, it can immediately be removed from the UTXO, and can be considered "destroyed".

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script

Quote

Provably Unspendable/Prunable Outputs
The standard way to mark a transaction as provably unspendable is with a scriptPubKey of the following form:

Code:

scriptPubKey: OP_RETURN {zero or more ops}

OP_RETURN immediately marks the script as invalid, guaranteeing that no scriptSig exists that could possibly spend that output. Thus the output can be immediately pruned from the UTXO set even if it has not been spent.

I have recently learned that any output with OP_RETURN is excluded from the fee/balance calculations and thus the value of any OP_RETURN output is simply transferred to the miners as a fee.

Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/139c004f477101c468767983536caaeef568613fab9c2ed9237521f5ff530afd

So this is not one way to destroy bitcoins although there are plenty of others as you pointed out.

Any problem with your calculator Huh

1 (1FC....) = 0.998 (1FC...) + 0.001 (destroyed) + 0.001 (fee)

Cryptogirl82

full member

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Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

Send them to Mark, he will destroy them once and for good.

beetcoin

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a key is called a key for a reason. the key itself is not the actual bitcoin, but it's what gives you access to the it.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: DannyHamilton on June 03, 2014, 09:05:48 PM

Also note that transactions can be created that don't pay to an address, but rather pay to a script. In particular, you can use OP_RETURN to create an output that can never be spent. This script OP code is used specifically to mark an output as "invalid". As such, it can immediately be removed from the UTXO, and can be considered "destroyed".

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script

Quote

Provably Unspendable/Prunable Outputs
The standard way to mark a transaction as provably unspendable is with a scriptPubKey of the following form:

Code:

scriptPubKey: OP_RETURN {zero or more ops}

OP_RETURN immediately marks the script as invalid, guaranteeing that no scriptSig exists that could possibly spend that output. Thus the output can be immediately pruned from the UTXO set even if it has not been spent.

I have recently learned that any output with OP_RETURN is excluded from the fee/balance calculations and thus the value of any OP_RETURN output is simply transferred to the miners as a fee.

Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/139c004f477101c468767983536caaeef568613fab9c2ed9237521f5ff530afd

So this is not one way to destroy bitcoins although there are plenty of others as you pointed out.

On edit: This is incorrect. The value assigned to the OP_RETURN output remains unspendable.

Harley997

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Quote from: TheGambler on June 03, 2014, 08:44:05 PM

This has probably been discussed before but I want to raise it again...

can bitcoins be destroyed

You can burn fiat currency...so can you destroy a bitcoin? Is it possible? How would you go about it? How would it effect the economy and how would someone find about it if it occurred?

Discuss

If you were to send a TX with an invalid output then the BTC will be destroyed assuming the TX gets confirmed. Eligius is the only pool that I know about that would possibly confirm nonstandard TXs.

Topic: Re: Bitcoin-QT client question - page 2. (Read 3551 times)