Receiving & Change Addresses | Bitcointalksearch.org

nc50lc

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 10, 2023, 10:25:35 AM

I think it's the BIP32 Extended Private Key because that's where the addresses are generated, right?

Edit:
That's not true, with BIP32 I would only see the receiving or change address, so I would have to insert the Account xPub.
So I would see both.

Like I've hinted, most wallets use "Account Extended Public Key", so for watching-only wallet, use Account Extended Public Key.

And yes, the "BIP32 Extended Private key" is the master key at the "Chain" index, derived from the Account Extended Private Key.
it's either the "external" (receiving) or "internal" (change) chain, so it's already the master key for your receiving or change addresses.
Plus, for watching-only wallet, it should be its "BIP32 Extended Public key" pair (but it's not what you needed)

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 10, 2023, 10:25:35 AM

Are the addresses always created automatically in sequence?
-snip-
or are they created in a jumble?

Almost all wallets that I know derive them in sequence.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on March 10, 2023, 04:48:09 AM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 10:55:11 PM

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,

Take note that the seed phrase generated by electrum can't be imported to sparrow wallet directly. Electrum generates the seed phrase using its own algorithm and you can only import BIP39 seed phrase in sparrow.
If you want to import your electrum wallet to sparrow, you should import your wallet file.

I create my seed myself on an AirGap computer, which I find to be the safest method.
(I'm a bit paranoid about stuff like that) Cheesy

Quote from: nc50lc on March 10, 2023, 03:58:07 AM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 10:55:11 PM

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,
I could imagine that some addresses are not displayed, how do I make these addresses visible on another wallet if i only have the seed?

How does it work with a Watch Only address, do I just need to insert the xPub and then i can see all the coins from every receiving and change address that come from this xPub?

Sparrow wallet has an "Addresses" tab where the change and receiving addresses are listed.
You can change the gap limit in "Settings->Advanced->Gap limit" to view more in case it isn't synced.

For watching-only, it depends on the master key imported to create the watch-only wallet,
but mostly all, including electrum, the 'xPub' is the "account extended public key" so it should be able to derive both the receiving and change addresses.

Thanks for the tip about the gap limit.

Which xPub do I have to insert ?
BIP32 root key
Account Extended Private Key
BIP32 Extended Private Key

I think it's the BIP32 Extended Private Key because that's where the addresses are generated, right?

Edit:
That's not true, with BIP32 I would only see the receiving or change address, so I would have to insert the Account xPub.
So I would see both.

Quote from: nc50lc on March 10, 2023, 03:58:07 AM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 10:55:11 PM

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,
I could imagine that some addresses are not displayed, how do I make these addresses visible on another wallet if i only have the seed?

How does it work with a Watch Only address, do I just need to insert the xPub and then i can see all the coins from every receiving and change address that come from this xPub?

Sparrow wallet has an "Addresses" tab where the change and receiving addresses are listed.
You can change the gap limit in "Settings->Advanced->Gap limit" to view more in case it isn't synced.

For watching-only, it depends on the master key imported to create the watch-only wallet,
but mostly all, including electrum, the 'xPub' is the "account extended public key" so it should be able to derive both the receiving and change addresses.

Are the addresses always created automatically in sequence?

Like:
m/44'/0'/0'/0 / 1
m/44'/0'/0'/0 / 2
m/44'/0'/0'/0 / 3
m/44'/0'/0'/0 / 4
m/44'/0'/0'/0 / 5

or are they created in a jumble?

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 10:55:11 PM

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,

Take note that the seed phrase generated by electrum can't be imported to sparrow wallet directly. Electrum generates the seed phrase using its own algorithm and you can only import BIP39 seed phrase in sparrow.
If you want to import your electrum wallet to sparrow, you should import your wallet file.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 10:55:11 PM

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,
I could imagine that some addresses are not displayed, how do I make these addresses visible on another wallet if i only have the seed?

How does it work with a Watch Only address, do I just need to insert the xPub and then i can see all the coins from every receiving and change address that come from this xPub?

Sparrow wallet has an "Addresses" tab where the change and receiving addresses are listed.
You can change the gap limit in "Settings->Advanced->Gap limit" to view more in case it isn't synced.

For watching-only, it depends on the master key imported to create the watch-only wallet,
but mostly all, including electrum, the 'xPub' is the "account extended public key" so it should be able to derive both the receiving and change addresses.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on March 09, 2023, 08:37:20 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

I think the best and easiest solution would be to leave the amount on the change address.

You are right, unless you have many small inputs and you want to consolidate them when you can make transaction with low fee.
Note that with consolidating your inputs, you link them together and you may hurt your privacy.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

Am I right with that?

All your private keys can be derived from your seed phrase and that's all you need.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

After I restore my wallet with the Seed, does electrum automatically give me the change address where my coins are?

Yes.

Thanks very much,

what if I only have the seed and switch my wallet to Sparrow,
I could imagine that some addresses are not displayed, how do I make these addresses visible on another wallet if i only have the seed?

How does it work with a Watch Only address, do I just need to insert the xPub and then i can see all the coins from every receiving and change address that come from this xPub?

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

I think the best and easiest solution would be to leave the amount on the change address.

You are right, unless you have many small inputs and you want to consolidate them when you can make transaction with low fee.
Note that with consolidating your inputs, you link them together and you may hurt your privacy.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

Am I right with that?

All your private keys can be derived from your seed phrase and that's all you need.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 08:28:34 PM

After I restore my wallet with the Seed, does electrum automatically give me the change address where my coins are?

Yes.

Bitcoiner2023

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Activity: 88

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Quote from: dzungmobile on March 09, 2023, 08:07:40 PM

I doubt you read everything.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 07:35:54 PM

Should I send my bitcoins back to my receiving address on the change address, or just leave them there?

You should not.

Please think. Why do you use change address rather than your initial address but later sending coin back to your initial address?

If you do this, you should not use change address at beginning.

What you want to do is consolidation from some change address inputs if you have them and you can consolidate your inputs to another new address if you want.

You're right, that wouldn't make any sense and would destroy my privacy.
I think the best and easiest solution would be to leave the amount on the change address.

But as far as I understood correctly, I would have to take a new backup at some point after many payments to secure the xPrv.
Except for an HD wallet, there I would not have to constantly make new backups, because everything there is backed up by the seed even after 1,000,000 payments.
Am I right with that?

If yes:
After I restore my wallet with the Seed, does electrum automatically give me the change address where my coins are?

If not:
How do i get access to my change address when restoring and it is not visible in the wallet?

dzungmobile

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I doubt you read everything.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 07:35:54 PM

Should I send my bitcoins back to my receiving address on the change address, or just leave them there?

You should not.

Please think. Why do you use change address rather than your initial address but later sending coin back to your initial address?

If you do this, you should not use change address at beginning.

What you want to do is consolidation from some change address inputs if you have them and you can consolidate your inputs to another new address if you want.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: dzungmobile on March 09, 2023, 06:34:18 PM

What is change address? Read to know
You can use change address or not, but you should for privacy of your transactions.

Some block explorers have privacy scores for your transactions like Blockchair.com
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/privacy-o-meter

Blockstream.info
https://blockstream.info/

If you check your transaction privacy score, check with Tor.

Thank you, I read everything.

I have one last question.

Should I send my bitcoins back to my receiving address on the change address, or just leave them there?

dzungmobile

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I stand with Ukraine!

What is change address? Read to know
You can use change address or not, but you should for privacy of your transactions.

Some block explorers have privacy scores for your transactions like Blockchair.com
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/privacy-o-meter

Blockstream.info
https://blockstream.info/

If you check your transaction privacy score, check with Tor.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 06:03:18 PM

I just read an article that says:
In certain cases attackers could extract private keys from signatures, so you should always use other addresses.

As I said, there is no problem with reusing addresses, when it comes to your security.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 06:03:18 PM

Does electrum automatically create new receiving and sending addresses for each transaction ?

Electrum generates numerous receiving addresses and change addresses for you and you can see them on "Addresses" tab. (If you don't see "Addresses" tab, click on "View" at top of the window and select "Show addresses".
Every time you request a new address on "Receive" tab, electrum gives you a new address which is one of the receiving addresses shows on "Addresses" tab.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on March 09, 2023, 05:49:11 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 05:42:03 PM

What could happen if I use my receiving addresses more than once, you say you shouldn't use an address more than once for privacy reasons, what could happen?

You can use any bitcoin address as many times as you want without any security issue.
As I already said, it's recommended to not reuse addresses due to privacy reasons.

If you give the same address to several people, any of those people can check your other transactions. Take note that all bitcoin transactions are public.

I just read an article that says:
In certain cases attackers could extract private keys from signatures, so you should always use other addresses.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/for-better-security-do-not-reuse-bitcoin-addresses#:~:text=Only%20using%20Bitcoin%20addresses%20one,can%20result%20in%20negative%20outcomes.&text=Jul%201%2C%202022-,Only%20using%20Bitcoin%20addresses%20one%20time%20is%20best%20practice.,can%20result%20in%20negative%20outcomes.

But does that only apply to receiving or also to sending addresses ?

Does electrum automatically create new receiving and sending addresses for each transaction ?

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 05:42:03 PM

What could happen if I use my receiving addresses more than once, you say you shouldn't use an address more than once for privacy reasons, what could happen?

You can use any bitcoin address as many times as you want without any security issue.
As I already said, it's recommended to not reuse addresses due to privacy reasons.

If you give the same address to several people, any of those people can check your other transactions. Take note that all bitcoin transactions are public.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on March 09, 2023, 05:15:26 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 05:04:20 PM

I don't understand why there are these 2 types of addresses doesn't make sense for me

Due to privacy reasons, it's always recommended to not reuse addresses.

Assume that there is no change address in electrum and your receiving addresses are used for receiving the changes.
You have fund in address A and you make a transaction. Electrum uses address B as the change address while you have already given the address B to someone to receive a payment.
What will happen? Address B will be reused and that's not recommended.

You have the change addresses, so that you don't use them for receiving fund and you can protect your privacy.

That sounds logical.

So I always use other receiving addresses and the changing addresses are automatically used by electrum for the changing.
With this i guarantee that I only give my addresses to people i choose myself.

What could happen if I use my receiving addresses more than once, you say you shouldn't use an address more than once for privacy reasons, what could happen?

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 05:04:20 PM

I don't understand why there are these 2 types of addresses doesn't make sense for me

Due to privacy reasons, it's always recommended to not reuse addresses.

Assume that there is no change address in electrum and your receiving addresses are used for receiving the changes.
You have fund in address A and you make a transaction. Electrum uses address B as the change address while you have already given the address B to someone to receive a payment.
What will happen? Address B will be reused and that's not recommended.

You have the change addresses, so that you don't use them for receiving fund and you can protect your privacy.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on March 09, 2023, 04:48:31 PM

Change address and receiving address have no advantages or disadvantages, they are both your addresses.

With receiving address I send 0.05btc and get 0.01btc back to my ~~receiving address~~ change address and can continue to pay directly with it.
With changing address I send 0.05 btc and get 0.01 btc back to my chaning address ~~but can't do anything with it until it has been confirmed.~~

To be able to spend unconfirmed transactions depends on your wallet.

I don't understand why there are these 2 types of addresses doesn't make sense for me Cheesy

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on March 09, 2023, 04:49:06 PM

Your understanding is not correct.
Given your previous posts, I assume you are using electrum.
Electrum allow you to spend unconfirmed coins whether they are in change addresses or receiving addresses. Just make sure "Spend only confirmed coins" is unchecked.

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know that

hosseinimr93

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Your understanding is not correct.
Given your previous posts, I assume you are using electrum.
Electrum allow you to spend unconfirmed coins whether they are in change addresses or receiving addresses. Just make sure "Spend only confirmed coins" is unchecked.

Charles-Tim

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Change address and receiving address have no advantages or disadvantages, they are both your addresses.

With receiving address I send 0.05btc and get 0.01btc back to my ~~receiving address~~ change address and can continue to pay directly with it.
With changing address I send 0.05 btc and get 0.01 btc back to my chaning address ~~but can't do anything with it until it has been confirmed.~~

To be able to spend unconfirmed transactions depends on your wallet.

Bitcoiner2023

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 09, 2023, 04:31:24 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

What is better to use for my Wallets ?
Receiving Addresses or Change Addresses ?

It's best to use the wallet as intended, so use the former to receive funds. It's kinda in the name.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on March 09, 2023, 04:14:44 PM

You can use any of the two, but ideally you suppose to use receiving address, change address is when you make transaction, the remaining coins not spent in the transaction would be sent to your change address, that is how it works.

Are there any pros and cons between these 2 addresses?

I know how it work:
With receiving address I send 0.05btc and get 0.01btc back to my receiving address and can continue to pay directly with it.
With changing address I send 0.05 btc and get 0.01 btc back to my chaning address but can't do anything with it until it has been confirmed.

That's why I see the chaning address as a disadvantage, but it must also have some advantages that you don't have with the receiving address

Best regards

LoyceV

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 09, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

What is better to use for my Wallets ?
Receiving Addresses or Change Addresses ?

It's best to use the wallet as intended, so use the former to receive funds. It's kinda in the name.

Topic: Receiving & Change Addresses (Read 199 times)