RedFlaged / Marked or "Dirty" BTC/USDT - page 2.

LoyceMobile

hero member

Activity: 1659

Merit: 687

LoyceV on the road. Or couch.

Quote from: Poker Player on August 14, 2022, 02:37:54 AM

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

Which authorities from which country?

It's usually private organisations that try to sell their list of addresses. I haven't seen an official government approved list of tainted Bitcoin addresses yet.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: NotATether on August 14, 2022, 12:53:07 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on August 14, 2022, 12:46:32 AM

~snip~

There ain't no difference between so-called "dirty" coins and normal coins.

I completely agree. And I am fully subscribed to Bitcoin's fungibility.

I was just responding to Z-tight's post. That reply of mine wasn't representative of my stand on this specific issue. I don't believe that one Bitcoin is purer than another. There's no single Bitcoin in the 21,000,000 total supply that is more Bitcoin or less Bitcoin than the rest.

While coins directly involved in crimes should be tracked, intercepted, confiscated, or returned to their rightful owners, it doesn't mean that those coins are dirty and aren't acceptable for circulation.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

Quote from: LoyceMobile on August 14, 2022, 01:14:08 AM

There are no dirty Bitcoins, but there are currently many organisations that want you to believe "taint" exists. It's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility. Don't believe it, and don't use exchanges that support this. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blacklist-of-unreliable-taint-proclaiming-bitcoin-services-exchanges-5401468

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

I am against the concept of dirty coins, but even these coins are returned to the financial system through auctions where millions of confiscated coins are resold and thus will again become legal and were acquired in legal auctions.
Therefore, the issue of tracking the source of the money is how to prove that you obtained this money in a legal way and from legal sources.

LoyceMobile

hero member

Activity: 1659

Merit: 687

LoyceV on the road. Or couch.

There are no dirty Bitcoins, but there are currently many organisations that want you to believe "taint" exists. It's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility. Don't believe it, and don't use exchanges that support this. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blacklist-of-unreliable-taint-proclaiming-bitcoin-services-exchanges-5401468

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Don't even mention USDT. Dirty USDT is locked USDT, because Tether can freeze your balance at any time.

Quote from: Darker45 on August 14, 2022, 12:46:32 AM

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Don't compare cash with Bitcoin. Restaurants, barber shops, grocery stores, hotels, markets, and almost all business establishments don't have mechanisms in tracking whether your money is dirty or not. That's different with a lot of duly licensed or registered crypto companies. Centralized and regulated crypto platforms such as exchanges, payment processors, lending, crypto banks, and so on are normally AML-compliant, which means they have AML bots and tracking software running 24/7 to guard against dirty coins.

The moment your coins are marked dirty, you'll be in trouble. Your coin might be rejected. You might not be allowed to do trading or conversion. You might get banned. Your account could be locked or your funds frozen or even confiscated. Your wallet could be blacklisted. You could be fined. You could even be prosecuted.

There ain't no difference between so-called "dirty" coins and normal coins.

It can be argued, that every single coin is going to be tainted by the year 2147 - when the last block reward is mined. Think about that for a second.

Every coin you touch will either have traces of mixers, coinjoins, casinos or ponzi schemes (because scammers dump their coins on exchanges).

So, it is suicide to even worry about the issue of tainting in the first place. In chess we call this "zugzwang" - It's your turn to move, and all your moves are bad.

But since you are not obliged to move your coins, then by all means don't, unless you're trying to pay someone/thing.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: Z-tight on August 14, 2022, 12:14:41 AM

Quote from: pandaBTC on August 13, 2022, 11:26:34 PM

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then!

LOL! If you are worried that your coins could be flagged as tainted, using mixers is a suicide. That would only make your coin suspicious or even tainted.

Quote

Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Don't compare cash with Bitcoin. Restaurants, barber shops, grocery stores, hotels, markets, and almost all business establishments don't have mechanisms in tracking whether your money is dirty or not. That's different with a lot of duly licensed or registered crypto companies. Centralized and regulated crypto platforms such as exchanges, payment processors, lending, crypto banks, and so on are normally AML-compliant, which means they have AML bots and tracking software running 24/7 to guard against dirty coins.

The moment your coins are marked dirty, you'll be in trouble. Your coin might be rejected. You might not be allowed to do trading or conversion. You might get banned. Your account could be locked or your funds frozen or even confiscated. Your wallet could be blacklisted. You could be fined. You could even be prosecuted.

pandaBTC

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 4

Quote from: Z-tight on August 14, 2022, 12:14:41 AM

Quote from: pandaBTC on August 13, 2022, 11:26:34 PM

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then! Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

You are right about money. Also I would use mixers - but problem is that with all this AML ,exchanges can block your wallet just because it came from mixer and at some point coins been marked. Thats why im looking for who went over this problems and have something to share with all of us.
PS. don't want to try it myself and end up in bad position.

Z-tight

hero member

Activity: 994

Merit: 1089

Quote from: pandaBTC on August 13, 2022, 11:26:34 PM

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then! Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

pandaBTC

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 4

Quote from: Solosanz on August 13, 2022, 09:58:36 PM

You only have one way, trace the coins came from. But most people can't distinguish between the coins came from mixers and normal transaction, it need a good understanding and learning to know that. What can I say is most mixer are easier to know the pattern, while Chipmixer is harder.

Usually the risk of such dirty coins are came from directly P2P trading without any platform as the third party and mixers. Although not all dirty coins will transferred to mixers, but coins from mixers will flagged as high illicit funds.

As long as you're not doing directly P2P trading, I think you're almost prevent to receive dirty coins.

Thats the problem. im looking for solution for P2P trades. With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Need to eliminate that for P2P. my thoughts so far is:
- make sure the funds are coming from exchange with KYC
- move over to Monero and Zcash and conversation to btc. but If im not wrong ZEC has some issues with traceability.
- other option is to receive small amount of BTC directly on verified exchange wallet with 0 balance. if it not gets suspended - coins are clean and can be received with no worries. In this case question is - how soon your wallet gets suspended if you receive flagged coins and does it depend on amount (50 cents or over 100$).
Please add your thoughts.

Decentralization slowly moving towards centralization . But that's another topic.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

dansus021

copper member

Activity: 2156

Merit: 983

Part of AOBT - English Translator to Indonesia

the answer is you cant because its kinda impossible to track one by one the transaction. the only one to knowing is from the sender if you receive it from exchange is pretty much safe but if you randomly send by someone else you need to worry

Solosanz

hero member

Activity: 952

Merit: 662

You only have one way, trace the coins came from. But most people can't distinguish between the coins came from mixers and normal transaction, it need a good understanding and learning to know that. What can I say is most mixer are easier to know the pattern, while Chipmixer is harder.

Usually the risk of such dirty coins are came from directly P2P trading without any platform as the third party and mixers. Although not all dirty coins will transferred to mixers, but coins from mixers will flagged as high illicit funds.

As long as you're not doing directly P2P trading, I think you're almost prevent to receive dirty coins.

pandaBTC

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 4

Hello to everyone. Need some advice from went over this and have solid solutionS.
How to make sure that coins (BTC and/or USDT) are not "dirty" before you receive them on your wallet?Not concidering Coinfirm,Chainalysis,ScoreChain etc.

As I anderstand they wan't be locked until you send them to crypto-platform with KYC( like binance..). What about cold wallets?

Topic: RedFlaged / Marked or "Dirty" BTC/USDT - page 2. (Read 453 times)