This is correct. It wasn't intended for a long run.
However, this wasn't the subject proposed in OP, let's not derail...
Topic: Reducing (removing) airdropped merits for those who didn't earn 1 single merit (Read 1272 times)
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
December 30, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
December 30, 2019, 12:09:26 PM
I intended to use them in the Romanian board, in a merit giveaway topic.
I don't quite fancy hoarding smerits to distribute them to a particular board via a giveaway(do not take my word for it, you can do what you wish with your Smerits), but for the love of God if everyone hoarded their smerits and saved them for giveaways on some boards then you wouldn't even have any smerits for your own giveaway on the Romanian board. 
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
December 30, 2019, 11:48:15 AM
I knew there is no point in hoarding merits.
I intended to use them in the Romanian board, in a merit giveaway topic. However, as far as I saw, the Romanian board is almost completely inactive, therefore I'll use the sMerits I have in the international boards.
I intended to use them in the Romanian board, in a merit giveaway topic. However, as far as I saw, the Romanian board is almost completely inactive, therefore I'll use the sMerits I have in the international boards.
December 30, 2019, 03:10:41 AM
I just checked merit history of OP.
@GazetaBitcoin, it seems that not only you want airdropped merits removed, but also, you want no user to receive merit.
Or you have not read the following statement.
"There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future."
Or you have not read any post that deserves merit.
@GazetaBitcoin, it seems that not only you want airdropped merits removed, but also, you want no user to receive merit.
Or you have not read the following statement.
"There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future."
Or you have not read any post that deserves merit.
December 20, 2019, 05:31:13 PM
I'm not sure it would be completely fair and just to take back rank from old accounts that made their rank before the merit system, because their are probably a lot of good users that don't get a lot of merits, but if anything I think theymos's algorithm is pretty good because it won't de-rank inactive users, but still might not be completely fair to users who continue to be active but only post once or twice per activity period..
Me personally, go ahead and take my airdropped 500 and give me the rare opportunity to make Legendary TWICE..
Just hurry up before I get to 1500 or it won't work
Me personally, go ahead and take my airdropped 500 and give me the rare opportunity to make Legendary TWICE..
Just hurry up before I get to 1500 or it won't work
December 20, 2019, 03:56:42 PM
Someone who has received merit which was previously airdropped probably deserve that merit, so why would you remove those merits? Doesn't make much sense to remove merits from constructive posts, "airdropped" or not.
yeah, that's a good argument to be fair.
And how to know whether the merit user X sent to user Y was an airdropped smerit or an earned smerit?
yep, I imagine the merits are actually just one homogenous pool, so there is likely no way to discern airdropped sMerit from sourced sMerit, why would there be? scrap that thought
still though, that (unsolvable) issue further underlines how messy the change would be, but fuck it, I still think it ought to be done
December 20, 2019, 03:25:27 PM
-snip-
But if we revoke all merits which came from airdropped sMerit, then what do we do with all the sMerit that came from those merits? Do we revoke them too? And how to know whether the merit user X sent to user Y was an airdropped smerit or an earned smerit?
December 20, 2019, 03:16:10 PM
-snip-
But if we revoke all merits which came from airdropped sMerit, then what do we do with all the sMerit that came from those merits? Do we revoke them too? If we follow this line of reasoning, then all merit other than that from merit source's monthly allocations would be removed. And is there really much difference between sMerit which was given freely to all forum users at the start and sMerit which is given freely to merit sources? As you say, it becomes too messy a change.Decay airdropped merit over time, leave all sMerits and earned merits alone, leave all ranks alone. Perhaps further down the line we can then consider linking signature privileges to earned merit rather than ranks.
December 20, 2019, 03:02:05 PM
That said, if all airdropped merit (both sMerit and rank-supporting merit) was revoked, I have no problem dropping down to Hero member or less (which I likely would)
You gained enough merits (for sure) and i think activity to be Legendary even without airdropped merits.
https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Carlton+Banks
Legendary rank in your case is something not easy to strip out of you, fortunately, If I may add.
December 20, 2019, 02:59:37 PM
There is an outstanding issue though for me: what about people that received airdropped sMerit? Alot did, and it gave existing high rankers an opportunity to shape the league table (whatever that's really worth). I wasn't especially keen on giving out merit I didn't earn (and still have about ~130 unsent sMerit), but then again alot of the merit I received was itself doubtless airdropped, no-one had any control over receiving it. It's a messier change when you consider this issue.
I think if it's something that Theymos wants to do, he should consider the method that has the least immediate impact. There's no reason to retroactively demote thousands of accounts overnight.
As for your point about airdropped sMerit, I don't think those should be demerited. Being a "New Era Newbie" myself, I'm sure many of the merit I've earned originated as sMerit that airdropped to older members, and revoking that from the countless accounts that have ranked up as a result would be quite disheartening.
December 20, 2019, 02:49:52 PM
There is an outstanding issue though for me: what about people that received airdropped sMerit? Alot did, and it gave existing high rankers an opportunity to shape the league table (whatever that's really worth). I wasn't especially keen on giving out merit I didn't earn (and still have about ~130 unsent sMerit), but then again alot of the merit I received was itself doubtless airdropped, no-one had any control over receiving it. It's a messier change when you consider this issue.
I don't agree with this. Someone who has received merit which was previously airdropped probably deserve that merit, so why would you remove those merits? Doesn't make much sense to remove merits from constructive posts, "airdropped" or not.Tell one good reason why this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.25949072 should have most(all?) merits removed.
I would like to see statistics on ranks without received merits which came from airdropped merits, if anyone can do this?
December 20, 2019, 02:12:00 PM
I support this (and called for it myself a while back)
There is an outstanding issue though for me: what about people that received airdropped sMerit? Alot did, and it gave existing high rankers an opportunity to shape the league table (whatever that's really worth). I wasn't especially keen on giving out merit I didn't earn (and still have about ~130 unsent sMerit), but then again alot of the merit I received was itself doubtless airdropped, no-one had any control over receiving it. It's a messier change when you consider this issue.
That said, if all airdropped merit (both sMerit and rank-supporting merit) was revoked, I have no problem dropping down to Hero member or less (which I likely would)
There is an outstanding issue though for me: what about people that received airdropped sMerit? Alot did, and it gave existing high rankers an opportunity to shape the league table (whatever that's really worth). I wasn't especially keen on giving out merit I didn't earn (and still have about ~130 unsent sMerit), but then again alot of the merit I received was itself doubtless airdropped, no-one had any control over receiving it. It's a messier change when you consider this issue.
That said, if all airdropped merit (both sMerit and rank-supporting merit) was revoked, I have no problem dropping down to Hero member or less (which I likely would)
December 20, 2019, 08:24:04 AM
I sometimes merit old posts with the thought in mind that eventually airdropped merit will be eliminated or the rank requirements will be increased so that airdrops wouldn't be enough. less often now that spending a few months inactive caused my source to get hobbled. 
One possibility would just be listing the grandfathered rank separately. "Hero Member / Legacy Legendary".
Of course, my perspective on the relative ease of getting merit is no doubt highly atypical.
One possibility would just be listing the grandfathered rank separately. "Hero Member / Legacy Legendary".
Of course, my perspective on the relative ease of getting merit is no doubt highly atypical.
When Satoshi Nakamoto will look at his account, how will he feel- hellllll, I am a newbie Just kidding.
FWIW, Satoshi has received enough merit to rank legendary. Just kidding. December 19, 2019, 10:12:52 AM
People would start handing them out every time they disagreed with someone else's opinion.
There's a fair solution to that if that Demerit sabotage of topic of yours were to implemented, and it will be like this:Going with USER x, y, z: and Giving 2 Merits = 1Demerit Power
If User X gave User Y 2Merits, User X can get 1 Demerit Power for using against User Y...
Then if User Z Disagrees with User Y, he/she can't Demerit User Y for he doesn't have any Demerit Power for User Y.
That would be a hell of script/codes just for that, I guess?
Yes, the merit system isn't 100% fair; a lot of good posts get overlooked. And yes, perhaps the initial airdrop was too generous, but it was needed in order for people to maintain their existing ranks.
The suggestion is just for another shitty guys who doesn't care about the Merit System just because they're already on a high rank. I suspect we'd never reach a consensus on what is fair.
Everything has flaws. Let's just stick with what we've got.
Suggestions can be of help whenever the system goes into failure. Besides it doesn't always go, the way we expect it to be.Nothing to do here for the likes of us who started with Zero Merits but still, I do want to see the decaying Airdropped Merits as time goes by.
December 19, 2019, 08:06:00 AM
I think demerits would be an awful idea. People would start handing them out every time they disagreed with someone else's opinion. You'd end up with a situation where people are scared to post anything even remotely contentious. It would hamper free discussion (as well as those hilarious snarky one-liner put-downs).
No one said anything about demerits beyond removing all of the airdropped stuff for everyone in one fell swoop.
I'm fine with ranks staying. I think it should be made clear how that rank was earned by removing the unearned merit.
December 19, 2019, 07:33:29 AM
When demerits and / or deranks happen separately or concurrently, there will be another massive drama in the forum as we saw when merit system debuted.
I think it'll probably equal out in terms of popularity versus outrage. It must really annoy the newcomers who are trying to see absolute fucking deadbeats lording over them.
The sooner anything with a financial incentive that requires an indication of your worthiness switches 100% to earned merit rather than rank the healthier this forum will be. Plenty of campaign managers already do this but the total removal of the rank factor would help.
I think demerits would be an awful idea. People would start handing them out every time they disagreed with someone else's opinion. You'd end up with a situation where people are scared to post anything even remotely contentious. It would hamper free discussion (as well as those hilarious snarky one-liner put-downs).
Yes, the merit system isn't 100% fair; a lot of good posts get overlooked. And yes, perhaps the initial airdrop was too generous, but it was needed in order for people to maintain their existing ranks. I suspect we'd never reach a consensus on what is fair. Perhaps the airdropped merit could have contained an in-built decay mechanism whereby you had to keep earning merit to maintain your rank until the airdrop was fully eaten away. I have no idea how complex that would have been to implement, but again it's unlikely it would have been popular.
Let's just stick with what we've got.
December 19, 2019, 05:26:05 AM
When demerits and / or deranks happen separately or concurrently, there will be another massive drama in the forum as we saw when merit system debuted.
I think it'll probably equal out in terms of popularity versus outrage. It must really annoy the newcomers who are trying to see absolute fucking deadbeats lording over them.
The sooner anything with a financial incentive that requires an indication of your worthiness switches 100% to earned merit rather than rank the healthier this forum will be. Plenty of campaign managers already do this but the total removal of the rank factor would help.
December 18, 2019, 08:19:26 PM
I absolutely think all airdropped merit should be removed.
I wouldn't be bothered if the legacy ranks remained but if you wanted to move up a rank you should have to start from a zero airdrop count just like a newbie. If you have contributed little to nothing of note in two long years then you shouldn't get a free leg up. You'll still be a good rank.
To go further you'll need to prove you've still got what it takes, not that most of them had it in the first place. Most were account farmers. I don't really regard ranks earned under the old system as in any way legitimate. All you had to was not get banned and shitpost once a day for 2-3 years to be a legend. But if it stays it stays.
If you became a legend before but have disappeared then you will remain a legend in our hearts and on the page but your merit score, or total lack thereof, will quickly illuminate your present status.
When demerits and / or deranks happen separately or concurrently, there will be another massive drama in the forum as we saw when merit system debuted.I wouldn't be bothered if the legacy ranks remained but if you wanted to move up a rank you should have to start from a zero airdrop count just like a newbie. If you have contributed little to nothing of note in two long years then you shouldn't get a free leg up. You'll still be a good rank.
To go further you'll need to prove you've still got what it takes, not that most of them had it in the first place. Most were account farmers. I don't really regard ranks earned under the old system as in any way legitimate. All you had to was not get banned and shitpost once a day for 2-3 years to be a legend. But if it stays it stays.
If you became a legend before but have disappeared then you will remain a legend in our hearts and on the page but your merit score, or total lack thereof, will quickly illuminate your present status.
But you are right that a Legendary is always a Legendary in the eyes of the others, no matter which rank that account wears. We can not deny the fact that Satoshi is a Legendary, forever. The same for Hal Finney, and nearly the same for nullius (who were the most oustanding guys in early weeks after merit system's debut).
For people who run business with accounts in the forum, ranks are not matter. Their accounts' ages and good trust histories make more sense than ranks.
December 18, 2019, 05:44:23 PM
I absolutely think all airdropped merit should be removed.
I wouldn't be bothered if the legacy ranks remained but if you wanted to move up a rank you should have to start from a zero airdrop count just like a newbie. If you have contributed little to nothing of note in two long years then you shouldn't get a free leg up. You'll still be a good rank.
To go further you'll need to prove you've still got what it takes, not that most of them had it in the first place. Most were account farmers. I don't really regard ranks earned under the old system as in any way legitimate. All you had to was not get banned and shitpost once a day for 2-3 years to be a legend. But if it stays it stays.
If you became a legend before but have disappeared then you will remain a legend in our hearts and on the page but your merit score, or total lack thereof, will quickly illuminate your present status.
I wouldn't be bothered if the legacy ranks remained but if you wanted to move up a rank you should have to start from a zero airdrop count just like a newbie. If you have contributed little to nothing of note in two long years then you shouldn't get a free leg up. You'll still be a good rank.
To go further you'll need to prove you've still got what it takes, not that most of them had it in the first place. Most were account farmers. I don't really regard ranks earned under the old system as in any way legitimate. All you had to was not get banned and shitpost once a day for 2-3 years to be a legend. But if it stays it stays.
If you became a legend before but have disappeared then you will remain a legend in our hearts and on the page but your merit score, or total lack thereof, will quickly illuminate your present status.
December 18, 2019, 05:07:47 PM
I don't think we should leave it to chance that good quality posts are seen by people who will eventually send merit in a system where merit becomes decayed.
Unfortunately the merit system will always have an element of chance in it, depending on who reads which threads and how many sMerits they have available at the time, which is why there are initiatives like the one I linked to before to try to identify and rectify any posts which are un- or under-merited.Merit decay will have no effect on this though. Regardless of whether or not airdropped merit is decayed, there would be the same amount of sMerit available and the same amount of merit being circulated, and I wouldn't propose to introduce decay for sMerit. It's up to regular users not to hoard their sMerit and distribute it.
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