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Topic: Refocused Invictus P2P Exchange Discussion - page 2. (Read 2594 times)

hero member
Activity: 770
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fractally
How does one invest in Invictus?  Allowing people to invest will increase the network.

SEC prevents us from selling stock to all but the 'sophisticated' investors (those with net worth over $1M), and we are committed to no pre-mining which leaves me at a loss on how to do this directly.


legendary
Activity: 1304
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How does one invest in Invictus?  Allowing people to invest will increase the network.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
Thanks.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 566
fractally
August 02, 2013, 06:54:34 PM
#9
A few remarks / questions. Forgive my bad English.

BitShares requires a global ledger that establishes the order of transfers, bids, asks, and market trades.  Every 5 minutes the set of all bids and asks included in the previous block are deterministically matched.

Do I wait 5 minutes to get my buy or sell order visible in the ladder (not ledger)?
It would work like a bitcoin transaction.   You can either negotiate the trade entirely 'off chain' and then just publish the atomic transaction, or you can place an open order into the block chain.  Your open order will show up as an 'unconfirmed transaction' as fast as it can be broadcast and could be matched by the miner the very next block.



Canceling an open order is also subject to the 24 hour rule because a chain reorganization after you placed your order but before you canceled it could result in another miner executing your order.

So, no ''good till cancelled'' orders?
All orders are good until you cancel them.    The sentence you quoted relates to the fact that decisions made by miners are tied to the block and thus cannot be ported over to new chains.


Local ‘Deposit’
Grandma wants to earn a 10% return on her dollars, but is unable to use a computer.   Her grandson decides to help her out, so he receives the dollars from his grandmother and then uses them to buy BitUSD.


Why not treat grandson's account as a ''master account'' (probably all forex brokers offer trading through master account - trades are allocated to sub-accounts) through which the grandson can perform specific (and limited) operations on the grandma's ''sub-account''. This will effectively render scams like Pirate40 impossible.
The key with this example was to show that Grandma doesn't even need a computer and can benefit from the system using a trusted (but decentralized) 3rd party.  
Speculator with Leverage
It would be interesting to see what leverage ratios will evolve Smiley
Everything is at least 100% collateralized, so there are no leverage ratios in the traditional 'fractional reserve' manner.   In this case he was going short to yield a higher return (with higher risk) to leverage his bet that BitShares will go up relative to BitUSD.  So there will be return rations, but the minimal backing for a short position is 150%  and due to market forces, the maximum backing will probably be no more than 250%.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
August 02, 2013, 06:44:21 PM
#8
A few remarks / questions. Forgive my bad English.

BitShares requires a global ledger that establishes the order of transfers, bids, asks, and market trades.  Every 5 minutes the set of all bids and asks included in the previous block are deterministically matched.

Do I wait 5 minutes to get my buy or sell order visible in the ladder (not ledger)?


Canceling an open order is also subject to the 24 hour rule because a chain reorganization after you placed your order but before you canceled it could result in another miner executing your order.

So, no ''good till cancelled'' orders?


Local ‘Deposit’
Grandma wants to earn a 10% return on her dollars, but is unable to use a computer.   Her grandson decides to help her out, so he receives the dollars from his grandmother and then uses them to buy BitUSD.


Why not treat grandson's account as a ''master account''* (probably all forex brokers offer trading through master account - trades are allocated to sub-accounts) through which the grandson can perform specific (and limited) operations on the grandma's ''sub-account''. This will effectively render scams like Pirate40 impossible.


Speculator with Leverage
It would be interesting to see what leverage ratios will evolve Smiley


* master and sub-account idea explained in a picture: https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=friendsFamilyAccounts&p=more
legendary
Activity: 1358
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Ron Gross
August 02, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
#7
I haven't had a chance yet to read about BitShares yet, I'll do that when I get a chance.

For those wishing to learn more about MasterCoin, check out mastercoin.org (currently just redirects to the relevant bitcointalk thread)
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 566
fractally
August 02, 2013, 11:19:59 AM
#6
Because of all of the discussion on Master Coin, I thought I would bump this thread to stir up discussion on BitShares as the real, funded, alternative backed by a team of 5 FTE individuals. 

We plan to make some major announcements at Crypto Currency Conference in Atlanta in October.   

A note on Master Coin:   It is an alt coin that is using Bitcoin addresses with bogus data as a means of broadcasting MasterCoin transactions.    It is based upon a TRUSTED party, price fixing, public oracles, and supply-side economics.   
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 566
fractally
You can post general comments in this thread, but it would be very helpful to focus your comments in the google docs document so that they are in context and can be addressed. 

I would think Google Docs comments isn't that good for Q&A activity.

Quote
The escrow agent is also bonded by other agents.

How does this happen?  Who would bond me if I was anonymous.  (or am I not anonymous with other agents?)

I would suspect that there would be a couple 'trusted' but 'anonymous' members on this forum and other places that could serve as the root of the trust chain.   They would be referenced by other anonymous agents as someone they would let judge disputes.  From this trust a web of inter-connected bonded agents would develop.  Agents make money on transaction fees that reference them so they would have incentive to post bonds with as many other agents as possible.  Eventually the agents earn a reputation for their speed and quality of service and therefore people can select agents.  People can also observe the transaction history to see which agents are the post popular and have the best fees.    I will be going into much greater depth on the escrow system in a follow-on paper.   
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
You can post general comments in this thread, but it would be very helpful to focus your comments in the google docs document so that they are in context and can be addressed. 

I would think Google Docs comments isn't that good for Q&A activity.

Quote
The escrow agent is also bonded by other agents.

How does this happen?  Who would bond me if I was anonymous.  (or am I not anonymous with other agents?)
vip
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Merit: 100
congratulation!
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
+1

Big kudos for taking this on! 

The success of Bitcoin is riding on whether we get a viable decentralized exchange.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 566
fractally
Charles and I have been making great strides in defining requirements, understanding designs, and lining up the developers and financial backing necessary to turn project Invictus into a success.   We have gathered and reviewed white papers from a dozen different approaches and spent many hours discussing designs and approaches with their authors and others in the community.

The best ideas from all of these papers are being worked into the BitShares white paper and I would like to invite the community to review, edit, and comment on the google docs paper.   The goal is to clarify the ideas and come to a consensus.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RLcjSXWuU9vBJzzqLEXVACSCdn8zXKTTJRN_LfoCjNY

You can post general comments in this thread, but it would be very helpful to focus your comments in the google docs document so that they are in context and can be addressed. 
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