Topic: Reliable comparison between mining vs. buying and holding - page 3. (Read 4531 times)

 It's because of the Ponzi-like nature of the club.  You have to sign people up and prey on their prey.
 It's multi-level bullshit using a pittance of mining for the illusion of credibility.  It's totally unsustainable but the top-level fucks are raking in the cash from the morons signing up, hence the trip to Iceland.
Too bad people are so gullible.

I believe with a million dollars in capital you're better off buying down 400 bitcoins at the current prevailing rates and I'm hopeful you'll be able to sell and make good returns before the end of the year. It's just not practical to mine and make returns currently as the difficulty rate is on an ever increasing level.

Yes noictib,

We do it in Iceland precisely for those reasons.   

Exactly, it makes every sense now to buy and hold rather than mine because you cannot easily beat the prevailing mining competition. It belongs to the elite and more powerful people with powerful hashing mines all over the world so wil advice all entry level miners to rather invest by buying down bitcoins.

xhomerx10,

We are not cloud mining. We have our own mining pool with a constantly expanding hashrate as the crowdfunded community grows daily. Nobody said it would be profitable to cloud mine bitcoin. In fact, nearly all the people we know who tried cloud mining didn't end up being happy at the very end.

Contrary to what you have said, there are people in our mining community (and I will say it again - we are not cloud mining) who have mined for more than those 1000 days, as the programme has an automated repurchasing of partial shares in place that keeps the contract perpetual. The decision to increase this repurchase amount from the bitcoin you earn daily is in your control which you may set and change at any time. All members who have mined for more than a year in the past have recovered their initial investments, and are mining on pure profits now. So 1000 days is what you begin with, and as you mine and allow the programme to run its repurchase to pay for electricity, maintenance, and increase of partial shares, your original share of 1 will be replenished after the end of the 1000 days. This effectively keeps the contract perpetual. What is more important is, the repurchase allows funds to be kept aside for the future upgrading of mining hardware the moment the new model of AntMiner is released, without further reinjection of capital from members. This arrangement cannot be underestimated for a long term sustainable mining operation and it's something you don't get mining with your own rig at home. Over the years we have upgraded from the S3 to the S4, S5, S7 and now S9, and have seen other miners around the world come and go on the hashrate distribution chart. BitMain maintains our pools and guarantees us a minimum hashrate in performance, so downtime is not something we worry about. Our mining blocks are available for public viewing at https://blockchain.info/blocks/BitClub%20Network, which is updated every 10 minutes.

The 0.1 btc per month are my personal actual mining figures from mining for less than 6 months for one of my accounts. I have a few contracts mining currently. I have just screenshot my pool earnings as of today and attached it here at . Whether I will continue to receive 0.1 btc per month, you and I don't know. It may be less, it may be more. But based on records of other miners in the community in the past few years, the monthly figures have been consistent even with the ever increasing mining difficulty since Mt Gox. Members earned about 2 to 3 btc per year before the last halving, and in my opinion 1.0 to 1.2 btc per year in the current halving era is quite realistic as my own records show. But there are no guarantees in life. You can only rely on past records, look at current conditions, and make an analysed projection for the future. After all, everything in cryptospace is such - otherwise you and I would have poured our entire life savings into mining or buying bitcoin yesterday. Which I don't. But I do both buying and mining, and place about 3 times in mining than I do in buying and holding.

At the end of the day, I can only show you my own figures and relay some facts about our previous records and performance. You will have to do your own research, look at your own risk-aversion, and see if this is for you. Nobody is arm-twisting you to participate. I am only offering an alternative to those who wish to consider mining without all the hassle of own maintenance and downtime, or concerns about upgrading when the time comes. Because you will have to upgrade when that time comes to cope with the mining difficulty, and most miners will have trouble reinvesting funds to replace a large rig or farm. We already have that planned for and funds set aside for that for each and every member. And that is why we have also seen DIY miners who didn't initially believe in our programme eventually quit doing it from home and joining us a year later, precisely for that reason. 
 

 We aren't talking about the option of putting money into a "safe" investment here so patronizing me by telling me to put my money in the bank is unproductive.  The thread topic is "Reliable comparison between mining vs. buying and holding" and that's what OP wants to know.  You don't give us enough information to do a reliable comparison of the two and neither does your site.  In fact, you are misrepresenting what a person can make by purchasing a contract on your cloud mining site.  This is why I contradicted you initially - to warn OP away from BCN.
 There is not enough margin in mining to be able to share the reward in the way your site explains.  You have to buy the equipment initially, the equipment becomes obsolete and must be replaced due to difficulty increases, you have to pay for electricity (the cheaper power in Iceland enables slightly longer useful life of the miner), you have to pay referral commissions and you have to pay costs associated with maintaining the site and its staff.  Show us your real figures and let us do the proper, reliable comparison for OP.

 

Right now the mining too has got more difficulty. It's good to buy and hold, but the one time spending on mining equipment provides a sustained earning, even when the price increases one gain the same amount in terms of bitcoin. But while buying what we spend simply varies between the time. Else as mentioned mining altcoins and then buying bitcoin with that is quite a good plan.

That is true, or perhaps you should mine Altcoins and have them sold for bitcoins if you're able to meet some of the factors you've listed above. Mining is indeed becoming elitist and belongs to a selected few so it's better to realize the competition and rather buy and hold.

 You ARE cloud mining.  You own the equipment, you run the pools, you control the horizontal and you control the vertical - the only way in is by contract.  This is the definition of cloud mining.    

 Let me assure you that I know you won't continue to receive your 0.1 Bitcoin per month which means that only you don't know.  It will be less and less with nearly each and every difficulty retarget.  The difficulty has doubled in the last 180 days so any contract you purchased in January will be producing half what it was at that time already - 180 days in.

 Let's assume that neither you nor I know whether you will continue to receive 0.1 BTC per month.  If that's true, then how can you tell people to invest $3500 (plus $99 membership fee) with you today and they will have 3.6 BTC three years from now which will be worth more than the bitcoins I might have bought earlier in 2017 with that same $3600?
  
Here's a screen cap of BCN's "table" to refresh your memory:


 So you and I aren't able to do the math but BCN is capable of doing so?  Come on man.
 
You're not only offering an alternative to people who would rather have you do all the work, you are promising greater wealth through mining over buying and holding - which is misleading at best.

Here's some interesting research into BCN

 https://99bitcoins.com/anatomy-bitcoin-scam-bitclub-network-analyzed/

 Don't get scammed.

Buying and holding have much more possibility of earning than mining because when you bought gpus for your mining rig then it already costs a lot of money while if you just diversify it on different good altcoins then you can easily grow it or double it within a month while in mining it will take a lot of months before you reach your ROI and also the price of coins are not fix so it is hard to tell when is your ROI.

Correct!

The millions $USD part in capital - that's handled in a crowdfunded arrangement and setup in our community.
The rest of the features you mentioned - near-free electricity, cool climate, technical expertise, first access to the latest ASICs - we have those all in place.

Having said that, it is also advisable to buy and hold some BTC.

You need to mine if you need Bitcoin as the main method is mining in order to get your hands on some coins, when some body needs to quickly make a deal using a decentralized currency they will have to buy in bulk from the market and send it to the recipient, for example when some body wants to buy or pay for something that under normal circumstances they couldn't use the banking system, they could buy and use then.
However it is the same whether you buy it or mine it but it's better if you start mining it for yourself and keep the coins for the times when you need to do business to avoid going to exchanges and buying expensive coins since when you try to buy more than a few the price will start to increase exponentially.

 You can't earn 1.2 bitcoins in each of 3 successive years with cloud mining contract - the difficulty increases will make it impossible.  If it were so profitable to cloud mine Bitcoin, don't you think EVERYONE would already be doing it?  1000 day contracts are absolutely useless - no miner will last the difficulty changes for that long a period of time and the maintenance fees will eat up your profit long before the 1000 days are up.

 Stay away from this huckster OP!  He's not being forthright in his claims.

Hi Oralmat, precisely! What you have quoted is very true these days. And that is why the mining that I do, it is done at a location where electricity is cheap, and plans are in place to upgrade the moment it becomes necessary, or even mandatory. Most miners don't stay long in the game because they lack the funds to upgrade when that moment comes, and that upgrading step is critically crucial to continue mining.

Buying and holding is also a good option, but many people feel that this was best done when bitcoin was much lower in price e.g. below US$1,000. With the current price of bitcoin these days, you can get a mining contract with all the benefits mentioned above for the price of a little over 1 btc, which you can potentially recover in USD in one to one-and-a-half years. This is because the returns are dependent upon 2 factors - the amount of bitcoin accumulated through mining, AND the price of bitcoin at any given moment. Hence, while 1 btc may be worth $2,500 today, if you manage to mine 0.5 btc in the next 6 months and the price of bitcoin then is $5,000, then you would have recouped that $2,500 (0.5 x $5,000).

The only difference between buy-hold and mining is, with buy-hold, once you sell your bitcoin to realise your capital appreciation, you will no longer hold any bitcoin for future appreciation, and you would have to buy new bitcoin at the price then, assuming you don't have any left. With mining, after you sell all your bitcoin from mining, you will continue to mine for more bitcoin for future appreciation, though I gather this time it will be less given the halving and increasing mining difficulty. But it doesn't matter, because bitcoin price would have been higher then, and you would be getting these bitcoin for free since you have recovered your initial investment. In our programme, the costs for all electricity, maintenance and future upgrades are derived from small quantities of bitcoins accumulated daily and apportioned aside, so no further reinjection of funds is necessary along the way.

The figures as tabulated at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/buy-hold-vs-mining-bitcoin/ are actual figures I have received to date. Of course, what will happen in one year, 5 years and 10 years from now, no one really knows.

I think we don't need to go at any place tow examine whether to buy the Bitcoin directly or mine and then hold .
Here I will say that ofcourse you need to buy directly instead to waste your time for the mining because mining is not profitable for every place  .
But if you are from the China country then I would like to suggest that you to mine the Bitcoin because mining of the bitcojnnis profitable in the China , but if you want start your business with Bitcoins and you need Bitcoin amount to start then instead to go for the mining , direct buybis more better idea for everyone .
So all the will depend upon your location and need and conditions .

Actually it is dependent upon number of factors. If you have access to free or near-free electricity, cool climate, Millions $USD in capital, technical expertise and first access to the latest ASICs. Then yes mining is profitable. If not, you are almost certainly better off just buying and holding BTC.

It is true that it is quite pointless to buy an ASIC miner and mine from home today. Overheads alone from electricity and cooling alone may outweigh your profits from mining, and your own hashrates may not be high enough to compete with the bigger miners around the world, resulting in much lower mining earnings than expected. These days, the best way to mine is to join a large mining pool - a pool large enough with a combined higher hashrate where all members of the pool pull their resources and work together to stand a better chance at validating a block. I am currently doing that with BitClub Network (BCN), in summary, for the following important reasons:

1. BCN's mining farm is located in Iceland where electricity tariff is low due to the use of geothermal and hydroelectric power. This significantly reduces overhead, leaving more of your bitcoin earned to be kept as profit. Cooling is provided naturally by the cool ambient air.

2. BCN is given a guaranteed hashrate by the manufacturer of AntMiner S9 that they currently use, which means that if there is any drop in hashrates or downtime in machines, additional resources are deployed to keep the hashrate at the agreed number. This sort of arrangement is not possible if you were to mine with your own rig, and you would need to constantly monitor its performance for downtime.

3. BCN is doing actual mining as can be verified on the blockchain.info website on the hashrate distribution chart for major miners across the world. The crowdfunded community is constantly growing with an increasing capacity in combined hashrate, with mining carried out with actual mining hardware. There are companies out there who claim to be doing mining but who don't actually possess or run their own machines, and some even go as far as to use the bitcoin phenomenon to capitalise on the gullibility of the public, without doing any actual mining at all.

4. One of the most important aspect of BCN's operation, which cannot be downplayed or underestimated, is their program for repurchases. This allows the current batch of mining hardware to be replaced and upgraded to the latest version when it becomes available, in order for the community as a whole to remain relevant in the mining race against other miners around the world. The older machines are sold off in the second hand market. This arrangement is possible without reinjection of funds by members, due to a repurchase plan and earnings apportionment that sets aside bitcoins mined for future use, equipment maintenance, and purchase of partial shares that keep the contract perpetual. Without this in place, the community as a whole would not be able to mine profitably and sustainably in the long term.

5. BCN has referral and compensation plans that allow members to build residual incomes, but only if they choose to want to do so. Earning bitcoins with BCN does not require members to do this, and most members are quite content with parking and sitting and earning bitcoins over time without doing much else. However, the compensation plans are there for those who wish to build. This building portion cannot be underestimated as well, as with this incentive for members to spread the word about bitcoin, BCN has been instrumental in bringing awareness about bitcoin and cryptocurrency to many parts of the world. If the price of bitcoin increases due to supply and demand, and from mass adoption or public awareness, then BCN is playing a small role contributing to that.

6. BCN has other cryptocurrency-related projects which they have and may introduce along the way. A more detailed description of the advantages and benefits of mining with BCN is provided at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/benefits-of-joining-bitclub-network/ and http://www.coinpurveyor.com/faq-bitcoin-mining-bcn/.

With bitcoin price often hitting all-time highs in the recent months, mining may still be a viable (and cost effective) option for anyone to accumulate bitcoin for future value appreciation.

For more information on getting started with bitcoin mining with BCN, kindly forward your queries to [email protected].

To compare the two, mining is the process by which transactions are verified and added to the public ledger, known as the block chain, and also the means through which new bitcoin are released according to investopedia which would only be profitable if you have a good mining rig or mining setup to begin with. Buying and Holding on the other hand is a passive investment strategy in which an investor buys and holds the bitcoin bought for a long period of time, regardless of fluctuations in the market according to investopedia again and is typically more profitable than mining most of the time unless you have a very good equipment for mining and a source of cheap electricity.

Actually I have a different experience between mining vs buying and holding. Because i have not listen for any people who arguing for mining and opposed to buying and holding. Even i hear a opposite for the people who think that buying and holding is much better and everyone could do it easily than mining. Because only big professional investors can do mining and only when they start to mining if in their country they have a lowest electricity.

I think it is more convenient to buy bitcoin instead of mining nowadays because it is so simple that when you buy a hardware for you to mine the return of investment is so long or even no at all.

Instead of investing a $1k in mining then bought it with Bitcoin now and wait just like what will you do in mining but in holding bitcoin you don't need to spend electricity cost and maintaining cost.