Topic: Remember Plustoken? they are still active and massive sell-off keeps going on (Read 288 times)
April 28, 2020, 04:07:47 AM
Can't believe real IDs are valued so much. I thought they could be used on platforms etc, but I didn't know 1 ID could go as far as $100 usd. So sick.
April 28, 2020, 02:56:07 AM
I'm not sure if I would disqualify trading volume because of leverage. From dumper perspective it does not matter if he fills 1000x buy offers form none leverage guys or 10x buy offers from 100x leverage guys. I need to think more about that.
it's important to remember, these are not real bitcoin markets. they are derivatives that settle to bitcoin. holding contracts at the wrong time can mean socialized losses. or the price can separate from the real spot market when leverage outweighs market depth.
13k BTC dumped on coinbase pro or bitstamp would definitely affect the price. i can't see coinbase pro's full order book but the shortened version shows only ~1500 BTC depth down to $7100 ($600 away), so imagine how far 13k would go.
We would see instant buy offers spam from arbitrage traders that would move price change to other exchanges like binance (with 2000BTC to 7100$ - only spot). There are also bunch of hidden offers that waits in arbitrage bots for trigger price. I think that 300$ -500$ price change is max that we might see from 13k BTC instant dump.to an extent you are right, but you are also making a whole lot of assumptions about supply and demand that we don't actually know. other exchanges might arbitrage down more than coinbase pro arbitraging up. it all depends on market conditions.
April 27, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
By the way, do you have a source where we can see this tyranny scandalous activity of selling KYC information is happening?
...Scammers have fake IDs, KYC data, they sell OTC - P2P, they spread it through dozen of exchanges and cantors they may even use it to pay for signature campaigns for they current business (casino, exchange). It is possible that your address is already tailed. It is possible that they have their own exchange. Not only your full KYC documents are sold, but also your email, telephone number and any other details, if you participated in any bounty which turned out to be a scam and requested full KYC from their participants because that was the only commodity in this scam.
Last year, I published a warning thread about this problem, where I described how this scam works exactly from inside.
Don't share your first email or KYC documents with every bounty or airdrop!!!
April 27, 2020, 06:12:51 AM
I'm not sure if I would disqualify trading volume because of leverage. From dumper perspective it does not matter if he fills 1000x buy offers form none leverage guys or 10x buy offers from 100x leverage guys. I need to think more about that.
We would see instant buy offers spam from arbitrage traders that would move price change to other exchanges like binance (with 2000BTC to 7100$ - only spot). There are also bunch of hidden offers that waits in arbitrage bots for trigger price. I think that 300$ -500$ price change is max that we might see from 13k BTC instant dump.
a lot of that is the same market makers splashing back and forth. there's probably fake volume added by the exchange too. once you've seen huobi doing several million BTC volume in a day, you start to be skeptical of these numbers.
Fair point. But that's volume from only one exchange.13k BTC dumped on coinbase pro or bitstamp would definitely affect the price. i can't see coinbase pro's full order book but the shortened version shows only ~1500 BTC depth down to $7100 ($600 away), so imagine how far 13k would go.
We would see instant buy offers spam from arbitrage traders that would move price change to other exchanges like binance (with 2000BTC to 7100$ - only spot). There are also bunch of hidden offers that waits in arbitrage bots for trigger price. I think that 300$ -500$ price change is max that we might see from 13k BTC instant dump.
April 27, 2020, 06:05:59 AM
Hi,
To add to what figmentofmyass said, You cannot ignore future volumes anymore. the liquidation mechanism introduced by leverage trading is one of the greatest liquidity pool in the market right now.
1- Following those area of high liquidity can be highly profitable
2- Historically, those areas have been a "magnet". The price always tended towards them.
3- If you have sufficient funds, pushing the price one way can create cascading liquidations and sudden HUGE increase in liquidity
Though it must not be forgotten that most derivative platforms only have an index of the Bitcoin price, calculated by weighting different spot exchanges spot-prices (Kraken, Bitstamp...)
To add to what figmentofmyass said, You cannot ignore future volumes anymore. the liquidation mechanism introduced by leverage trading is one of the greatest liquidity pool in the market right now.
1- Following those area of high liquidity can be highly profitable
2- Historically, those areas have been a "magnet". The price always tended towards them.
3- If you have sufficient funds, pushing the price one way can create cascading liquidations and sudden HUGE increase in liquidity
Though it must not be forgotten that most derivative platforms only have an index of the Bitcoin price, calculated by weighting different spot exchanges spot-prices (Kraken, Bitstamp...)
April 27, 2020, 05:58:04 AM
Here you can see 40 000 BTC 5 min candle on binance futures (300 mln $ traded in 5 min). People still forget (or did not realise that yet) how deep bitcoin market is. You can really dump 100 mln $ in BTC without significant impact on market if you do it wisely.
a lot of that is the same market makers splashing back and forth. there's probably fake volume added by the exchange too. once you've seen huobi doing several million BTC volume in a day, you start to be skeptical of these numbers.
binance futures also offers up to 125x leverage. i'm not saying everyone is leveraged that much, but it greatly skews the amount of real market depth. that's why derivatives can stray from real bitcoin spot prices during extreme volatility, like we saw in march on bitmex.
i wouldn't include derivative platforms in with real spot exchanges when measuring depth and volume, or at least i would control for the amount of leverage used. there is also a lot of faked market depth and faked volume across the industry in general too.
13k BTC dumped on coinbase pro or bitstamp would definitely affect the price. i can't see coinbase pro's full order book but the shortened version shows only ~1500 BTC depth down to $7100 ($600 away), so imagine how far 13k would go.
April 27, 2020, 03:24:49 AM
So what's the update here, do they still have those Bitcoin that they've scam it's kinda worrying because they can do another massive dump again and lose the momentum that we are having right now, we have seen how they crash the market when they dumped their share, something that we do not want to happen again.
People overestimate their impact on the market. Dump that we saw was caused by massive panic sell that was visible not only on bitcoin but also SP500, DJI, DAX, LSE, silver, OIL - almost every asset. I doubt that OIL was dumped to -35$ because plustoken guys was selling.
I agree with this:
Notice that the amount of 12,000BTC ($84,000,000) is minimal to cause huge changes in a market with a market capacity of $32,107,189,024.
Here you can see 40 000 BTC 5 min candle on binance futures (300 mln $ traded in 5 min). People still forget (or did not realise that yet) how deep bitcoin market is. You can really dump 100 mln $ in BTC without significant impact on market if you do it wisely.
April 26, 2020, 11:34:59 PM
It can be seen that in spite of having the leader of the famous SCAM caged, the company's addresses are still active and they may have hit a snag during last March's fall, when these sons of b**ch dumped 13,000 BTC ($118M).
https://beincrypto.com/plus-token-scam-dumps-another-13000-btc-118m-may-be-responsible-for-bitcoin-drop/amp/
So what's the update here, do they still have those Bitcoin that they've scam it's kinda worrying because they can do another massive dump again and lose the momentum that we are having right now, we have seen how they crash the market when they dumped their share, something that we do not want to happen again.
April 19, 2020, 07:20:17 PM
It can be seen that in spite of having the leader of the famous SCAM caged, the company's addresses are still active and they may have hit a snag during last March's fall, when these sons of b**ch dumped 13,000 BTC ($118M).
Whenever we see a drop in price, following large BTC transfers, some analyzes (newspapers are trying to gain more views) try to link between them and the price dump/bump, for example, this article[1] from February speaks about the same FUD.Consequently, they are not responsible for the recent decline.
Notice that the amount of 12,000BTC ($84,000,000) is minimal to cause huge changes in a market with a market capacity of $32,107,189,024.
[1] FEB 11, 2020 PlusToken Scam Moves $123M in Bitcoin Just as BTC Price Regains $10K
but if we do really talk about on the entire amount then it wont really be enough to dump the market down to low levels and also as you said that not all situation would really correlate to market
price yet it had proven how many times that it can go to opposite way.
Whose fault is it that these things happen?
Stop using the central platforms, use open-source wallet/exchange after checking the source code.
April 19, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
If somehow there could be some initiative between exchanges, what should be the prime thing is figuring out who is the hacker and where is the money at the latest.
Because, we all know that this much money can't be cashed out without any KYC at all, there has to be some sort of trail that could be traced and if all exchanges work together in cases like this we are talking about billions of dollars worth companies working together and I am sure they could fund something that could trace all of this to a person, I know you think that might be a bit difficult but if you throw enough power+money+talent into a project like that, they could basically make it their mission and their only job so they could figure out who it is. And when you do catch the hackers once or twice, people will realize hacking is not the end result, you also have to not get caught and that might convince some people otherwise.
Because, we all know that this much money can't be cashed out without any KYC at all, there has to be some sort of trail that could be traced and if all exchanges work together in cases like this we are talking about billions of dollars worth companies working together and I am sure they could fund something that could trace all of this to a person, I know you think that might be a bit difficult but if you throw enough power+money+talent into a project like that, they could basically make it their mission and their only job so they could figure out who it is. And when you do catch the hackers once or twice, people will realize hacking is not the end result, you also have to not get caught and that might convince some people otherwise.
April 19, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
With your opinion, maybe time will come for these exchanges across the world that they will create a union to become connected and unite if such incident happens again.
I think Binance will have the initiative for this but only time will tell.
I think Binance will have the initiative for this but only time will tell.
They should, to combat hacking and protect the industry where they making huge profit, but there are stiff competitions among exchanges right now, and I agree that Binance should be the forefront since they are the industry leader in exchange, if we something like this, we will never have another plustoken.
April 19, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
It can be seen that in spite of having the leader of the famous SCAM caged, the company's addresses are still active and they may have hit a snag during last March's fall, when these sons of b**ch dumped 13,000 BTC ($118M).
Whenever we see a drop in price, following large BTC transfers, some analyzes (newspapers are trying to gain more views) try to link between them and the price dump/bump, for example, this article[1] from February speaks about the same FUD.Consequently, they are not responsible for the recent decline.
Notice that the amount of 12,000BTC ($84,000,000) is minimal to cause huge changes in a market with a market capacity of $32,107,189,024.
[1] FEB 11, 2020 PlusToken Scam Moves $123M in Bitcoin Just as BTC Price Regains $10K
Whose fault is it that these things happen?
Stop using the central platforms, use open-source wallet/exchange after checking the source code. April 19, 2020, 09:16:15 AM
By the way, do you have a source where we can see this tyranny scandalous activity of selling KYC information is happening?
I will not share darknet market links here because i don't know if its not against BTT (and personally i don't want to promote that) rules but i can link you this article to prove that I didn't made it up:
https://www.ccn.com/hacked-customer-data-from-world-leading-cryptocurrency-exchanges-for-sale-on-the-dark-web/
And photo of random vendor selling KYC data:
And if some may think that exchanges need photo with you holding a piece of paper with date than you need to know that 100$ is enough for fake ID.
So as I already said. Any restrictions will only disturb honest users. Every KYC, every coin holding if they are tailed with scam etc. Scammers will always find a way to scam and wash dirty money.
Scammers have fake IDs, KYC data, they sell OTC - P2P, they spread it through dozen of exchanges and cantors they may even use it to pay for signature campaigns for they current business (casino, exchange). It is possible that your address is already tailed. It is possible that they have their own exchange.
April 19, 2020, 04:43:23 AM
With your opinion, maybe time will come for these exchanges across the world that they will create a union to become connected and unite if such incident happens again.
I think Binance will have the initiative for this but only time will tell.
I think Binance will have the initiative for this but only time will tell.
April 19, 2020, 04:23:39 AM
~50$ - that's how much you need to pay for KYC photos on darknet.
~100$ - that's how much you need to pay for credit card that is registered on random guy.
Hello I am not that familiar on darknet but is this valuation for real? Only 50$ and someone can eventually used your details? Holy crap, this is not good. Hopefully people can learn not to be stupid on signing up with most KYC bounty. By the way, do you have a source where we can see this tyranny scandalous activity of selling KYC information is happening? ~100$ - that's how much you need to pay for credit card that is registered on random guy.
Maybe I am doomed I did some KYC before on some bounties for rewards. My goal now is to avoid these devil swarms abusing people. Thanks. I am clueless that there are sellers for this kind of informations.
April 18, 2020, 11:41:27 AM
KYC is literally for this, we can't do anything more than that, if an exchange asks for KYC and somehow still doesn't get the right guy that means there is nothing else they should be doing. Hell I have recently bought a yoga mat and didn't give any other information then my address so they can ship it, I bought a game from steam and never really gave ANY info, my name and address they asked there were all fake and nobody checked it twice.
So, exchanges are already doing something much much more than what the other ecommerce are doing, we should not be asking them anything more. If there is a hacking going on and people withdrew, just use their KYC to catch them, give all the info you have to cops and they will chase him, if not that means its not exchanges fault.
So, exchanges are already doing something much much more than what the other ecommerce are doing, we should not be asking them anything more. If there is a hacking going on and people withdrew, just use their KYC to catch them, give all the info you have to cops and they will chase him, if not that means its not exchanges fault.
~50$ - that's how much you need to pay for KYC photos on darknet.
~100$ - that's how much you need to pay for credit card that is registered on random guy.
Also ICOs scammers has thousands of ID from their KYC that they demanded from their clients. Sometimes i think that this is a main income from today's ICOs. You get 1000 bounty hunters that perform KYC to get reward and you have 50 000$ from darknet. You don't need to sell even a single token during ICO.
Any restrictions will only makes things harder for honest guys. Scammers will always find a way to scam.
April 18, 2020, 11:33:19 AM
KYC is literally for this, we can't do anything more than that, if an exchange asks for KYC and somehow still doesn't get the right guy that means there is nothing else they should be doing. Hell I have recently bought a yoga mat and didn't give any other information then my address so they can ship it, I bought a game from steam and never really gave ANY info, my name and address they asked there were all fake and nobody checked it twice.
So, exchanges are already doing something much much more than what the other ecommerce are doing, we should not be asking them anything more. If there is a hacking going on and people withdrew, just use their KYC to catch them, give all the info you have to cops and they will chase him, if not that means its not exchanges fault.
So, exchanges are already doing something much much more than what the other ecommerce are doing, we should not be asking them anything more. If there is a hacking going on and people withdrew, just use their KYC to catch them, give all the info you have to cops and they will chase him, if not that means its not exchanges fault.
April 18, 2020, 09:36:01 AM
First of all, damn it! I thought it was a name. I read it like Ploosto-ken. 
Hilarious.
That article was 1 month ago man.
You made me the effort to google "plustoken news" "plustoken update" and more. Yet, I don't find any recent news about them.
All dated like February, March. No April.
We should move one with this. There are people who are already looking up to this.
Hilarious.That article was 1 month ago man.
You made me the effort to google "plustoken news" "plustoken update" and more. Yet, I don't find any recent news about them.
All dated like February, March. No April.
We should move one with this. There are people who are already looking up to this.
April 18, 2020, 07:34:05 AM
Plustoken was a typical HYIP ponzi scheme that exit scammed(like every other HYIP ponzi scheme).
I hope that the team behind this scam gets arrested and convinced(or punished) to return all stolen BTC and ETH.There's no nothing we(of crypto exchanges) can do.There authorities have to step in.
Only thing we can do is to promote the simple "disclaimer",that everyone who invests money in such projects is going this at his own risk and there's always the possibility of losing all his investment.
People will always have to do their own research before deciding what to do with their money.
I hope that the team behind this scam gets arrested and convinced(or punished) to return all stolen BTC and ETH.There's no nothing we(of crypto exchanges) can do.There authorities have to step in.
Only thing we can do is to promote the simple "disclaimer",that everyone who invests money in such projects is going this at his own risk and there's always the possibility of losing all his investment.
People will always have to do their own research before deciding what to do with their money.
April 18, 2020, 07:00:24 AM
Why are you even in crypto? As i remember correct you are here for quick lambo aren't you (at least i assume that after this thread -https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5239132.msg54187833#msg54187833 and few others)? That explains why you want regulations, exchange stealing someone funds to not let them dump etc. I'm here for freedom and independence from banks. Crypto was made to free people. It has advantages and disadvantages. You can start a global company with SC without going out from home, you can store and transfer money without banks and their regulations but on the other hand you can be scammed if you are not thoughtful. It is impossible to enjoy freedom while imposing restrictions. Any restriction that will help in prosecuting these types of fraudsters will limit our freedoms and bring crypto closer to the system we have outside the crypto. Stop promoting restrictions!
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