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dissident

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: subvolatil on January 16, 2014, 11:38:16 AM

Credit cards are a bad idea
It was never safe and had to many security problems.
Its better BTC stays away from credit card transactions.

credit cards offer buyer protection from scamming sellers... it works both ways. Bitcoin offers no protection which is still it's Achilles heel. It's great for some circumstances, not so great for others. Personally I like the idea of passing along paper wallets like currency that can easily be verified but even then the person who makes the wallet controls the private key so thus you'd have to transfer the balance to your own account right away to avoid it being taken back.

This should all be resolved in time though.. fraud protection will be built into future coins, for better or for worse, no system is perfect when dishonest people are part of it.

Johnny Bitcoinseed

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Johnny Bitcoinseed

You just claim you never got it, got the wrong item, or someone else used your card to make the purchase. This is the bane of any business. The card company also tacks on a hefty chargeback fee to add insult to injury. The thief wins, the credit card company wins, and the business looses.

And THAT is why credit card companies will fear Bitcoin, which does not suffer from these problem people taking advantage of the system.

You say that most people are not scammers, and this is true. However, many businesses are operating on slim margins. Especially small businesses a few cases of fraud and they suffer greatly. For every fraud it may take dozens or more sales just to make up for that one loss. Nobody likes to work hard for nothing - very difficult to put food on the table when that happens.

bluemeanie1

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 257

bluemeanie

Quote from: whtchocla7e on January 15, 2014, 08:44:06 AM

Bitcoin is supposed replace your credit cards. Get with the program.

supposed to, but doesn't.

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

Has anyone tried mailing paper wallets?

subvolatil

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 501

Cypherpunk and full-time CryptoAnarchist

Credit cards are a bad idea
It was never safe and had to many security problems.
Its better BTC stays away from credit card transactions.

BreathOfZen

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

I doubt the first two reversals because they were so quick (literally an hour or so,) but either way the whole thing is sad. The bad news is it proves that the world of credit and trust is dying, the good news is that it proves the need for an irreversible cash equivalent online-such as Bitcoin!

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

Quote from: BreathOfZen on January 15, 2014, 04:27:19 PM

I have sold four Bitcoin auctions on eBay that were paid for by Paypal or Credit Card, and three of them have had charge backs so far. They all claimed that their account was hacked, two of them running the charge back within three hours of the purchase. PS there is nothing I can do about it, I can't even leave them a negative review on eBay because I am the seller.

Morals:
Don't sell bitcoins on eBay
Don't accept credit for bitcoins period. The charge will be reversed and you will be left out of pocket.

Sorry for everyone who wants to use a credit card, but unfortunately these are the facts.

Honestly I wouldn't doubt them. Every single digital auction I've done has been charged back. I do believe they were hacked. This is what stolen PayPal accounts are used for.

SirBitsalot

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: jonanon on January 15, 2014, 03:19:10 AM

Mainly due to credit card fraud - people claiming misuse of their CC after already getting their BTC, there is nothing the seller can do.

^ Exactly. Bitcoins are virtually impossible to fraud.

BreathOfZen

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

I have sold four Bitcoin auctions on eBay that were paid for by Paypal or Credit Card, and three of them have had charge backs so far. They all claimed that their account was hacked, two of them running the charge back within three hours of the purchase. PS there is nothing I can do about it, I can't even leave them a negative review on eBay because I am the seller.

Morals:
Don't sell bitcoins on eBay
Don't accept credit for bitcoins period. The charge will be reversed and you will be left out of pocket.

Sorry for everyone who wants to use a credit card, but unfortunately these are the facts.

DeeSome

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: jonanon on January 15, 2014, 10:20:14 AM

Quote from: DeeSome on January 15, 2014, 09:24:54 AM

It could be sorted out very easily IF the CC companies wanted to by providing an online wallet service themselves. Mr. A uses his Visa card to buy x amount of BTC from Mt Gox and the coins are sent to his Visa wallet which he can then transfer to any wallet he wants.
Visa charge a small percentage for the service and because they see the BTC have been transferred to Mr. A's wallet there is no possibility of a chargeback.
Simplistic I know but feasible.

I like the sound of something like this, I don't like sending bank transfers to random companies - when I wanted to buy my first BTC I automatically thought of debit/credit cards and PayPal, not being able to use them to buy BTC nearly put me off Sad

I was exactly like you, I got interested in the whole bitcoin thing when the price was around $40 and missed out on cheap bitcoins because due to being in UK found it hard to buy any and I was afraid of losing my money jumping through all the hoops to purchase any, I finally took the plunge around the $70 mark and got 5 BTC which I still hold hoping to be able to spend on holidays soon.

jonanon

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: DeeSome on January 15, 2014, 09:24:54 AM

It could be sorted out very easily IF the CC companies wanted to by providing an online wallet service themselves. Mr. A uses his Visa card to buy x amount of BTC from Mt Gox and the coins are sent to his Visa wallet which he can then transfer to any wallet he wants.
Visa charge a small percentage for the service and because they see the BTC have been transferred to Mr. A's wallet there is no possibility of a chargeback.
Simplistic I know but feasible.

I like the sound of something like this, I don't like sending bank transfers to random companies - when I wanted to buy my first BTC I automatically thought of debit/credit cards and PayPal, not being able to use them to buy BTC nearly put me off Sad

Duane Vick

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

How I would accept CC:

Make a btc gift card and ship it via traceable delivery. Gift card has public key and private key for a wallet. Private key is concealed by scratchoff material. Refund policy is only if buyer returns card with scratchoff intact and wallet not swept. Delivery is only to billing address of credit card. Transactions limited to in-country only.

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

There's laws like fair credit act

DeeSome

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

It could be sorted out very easily IF the CC companies wanted to by providing an online wallet service themselves. Mr. A uses his Visa card to buy x amount of BTC from Mt Gox and the coins are sent to his Visa wallet which he can then transfer to any wallet he wants.
Visa charge a small percentage for the service and because they see the BTC have been transferred to Mr. A's wallet there is no possibility of a chargeback.
Simplistic I know but feasible.

Aswan

legendary

Activity: 1734

Merit: 1015

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jonanon on January 15, 2014, 03:19:10 AM

Mainly due to credit card fraud - people claiming misuse of their CC after already getting their BTC, there is nothing the seller can do.

That's true. I have a feeling it would only be a small amount of people that would do that though. It's like people who buy something on eBay and claim it never arrived so they get refunded through Paypal and screw the seller. But then those people get banned from the service.

I wonder if there's a cutoff time for being able to claim misuse of your card after a transaction shows up.

Its 13 Months

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

You can buy from virwox but it's 17% extra

whtchocla7e

full member

Activity: 392

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Worlds Simplest Cryptocurrency Wallet

Bitcoin is supposed replace your credit cards. Get with the program.

Meuh6879

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

All exchange place are made "certification" to allow the trust in the buyer.

In virwox, you can't buy your first mBTC in a month (max 1000 euros).
In Neteller, you can't exchange more than 2800 euros par month.

And, after couple of month, the limit is up (but not stopped).
You can write that it's because of liquidity ... but it's, too, for trust into the buyer.

in other "sepa" place, all transaction can take "1 month" to confirmation ... for the first payment (read faq of mtgox or bitcoin.de).

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

Very simple, make them wait 6 months to withdraw.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

It could be done.

Most credit card companies allow a refund for just about any reason up to six months after purchase.

So to allow bitcoin purchases with credit cards you just require a six month waiting period before you can get your bitcoins.

A long time but if someone really wants bitcoins quickly, that would allow it to happen.

Topic: Removed. (Read 1991 times)