Repayment Deadline Increased for the MT Gox Exchange’s Creditors

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Quote from: KiaKia on October 06, 2023, 03:47:56 AM

All these are lessons people need to be cautious about, stop keeping your assets in the hands of any centralized crypto exchanges, anything can happen to them at any given time, I think it's healthier to also diversify your crypto portfolio, if one face the same fate as MT. Gox the others might cover for your losses.

We have seen the collapse of Mt.gox, and FTX being the most recent, but I think people will quickly forget everything and will continue to use centralized exchanges without a shadow of a doubt. After the collapse of two major exchanges and a series of hacks with centralized exchanges, I don't see exchange dependence showing any signs of abating in the market.

Furthermore, how to diversify? In my opinion, as long as we use non-custodial wallets and do not leave any assets on centralized exchanges, we will never have to worry about our assets being lost or stolen.

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Quote from: NotATether on October 05, 2023, 02:45:09 AM

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

The repayment plan has been settled for ages, they know how much money they have, and they have already sold all the coins necessary for the fiat reimbursement so this leaves only the coins for which they've already set the fraction at which they will be paid back.
The money as agreed is there, it's only the actual payment process that is taking that much time, DaveF covered this nicely.

Funny thing, although the previous liquidation did happen at lower BTC prices, they still managed to get a 4x on the current price for BCH, so for some getting their coins next year might be better than getting them in 2020, if these people wouldn't, of course, depend on that money for a living.

Quote from: arwin100 on October 06, 2023, 04:24:00 AM

The one I truly wondering is how those creditors could cover up all the expenses of this refund plans since for sure there's a lot of people will claim their part and this is so huge, also the question there if they still have enough money to complete this refund to all affected users.

Everything you want to know is here:
https://www.mtgox.com/d/04y7ivbnz5gw.pdf
And indeed, it's everything!

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Quote from: NotATether on October 05, 2023, 02:45:09 AM

Quote from: DaveF on September 21, 2023, 06:33:04 AM

Also from that article linked:

Quote

Additionally, Kobayashi explained that, for rehabilitation creditors who have provided the necessary information, repayments will be made in sequence as early as the end of this year.

From what I see the 2024 date is the END of the repayments, not the start. I can see them wanting to do it slowly and in batches to make sure it goes well as opposed to shoving it all out the door as fast as possible and dealing with all the issues at once. There are merits to doing it both ways.

-Dave

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

Maybe they are considering the market since if it happens that a single batch massive sell out will happen then it could provably a disaster and can affect the price of bitcoin. For sure massive fud will spread and they use this incident just to create short term scare from people who always believe on the news released by mainstream.

The one I truly wondering is how those creditors could cover up all the expenses of this refund plans since for sure there's a lot of people will claim their part and this is so huge, also the question there if they still have enough money to complete this refund to all affected users.

KiaKia

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The only place I've lost money with crypto and be able to get them back fully using a reimbursement strategy was in 2018 from a Bitcoin mining pool call Nicehash, they claimed they got hacked somehow and people lost money, I was shocked when they actually paid all the BTC back.

I already moved on and that could have been my third time of losing expensive assets in the crypto space, if I were one of these MT Gox victims I would have done the same, and moved on until they proved to be different by paying back when no one expected.

All these are lessons people need to be cautious about, stop keeping your assets in the hands of any centralized crypto exchanges, anything can happen to them at any given time, I think it's healthier to also diversify your crypto portfolio, if one face the same fate as MT. Gox the others might cover for your losses.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: NotATether on October 05, 2023, 02:45:09 AM

So this means, repayments will start at October 31 of this year and last for exactly one year.

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

Good point, but I think it is a good thing that they did not give all the payments all at once because if they did market would go into a downtrend sentiment due to the high selling but that selling pressure would be reduced due to these batches. As in batches, the selling will be diving over 1 year while if they did lump sum then that pressure of selling will be implemented in 1 day maybe.

Overall, that does raise skeptical questions about them. I am not a victim of this, but just a question, is not there any proof of reserves that shows that they do have the amount I mean, according to the article and news, they did not say or mention that MT GOX has these much BTC and Yuan and other tokens.

DaveF

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Quote from: vapourminer on October 05, 2023, 02:42:09 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 05, 2023, 01:44:56 PM

[...]

And so on. Having dealt with similar bankruptcy issues, I can say it's a mess when you KNOW everyone involved. Never mind the wonderful anonymous world of the internet and BTC

And once the money is sent, it's gone. So at least IMO better to be very slow and correct then even just a little bit faster and a very tiny bit wrong.

some peeps sold their accounts for a fraction of the balance back in the day.. im sure thats fun to sort out legally too.

Some sold for even more as it looked more and more like there was an end in site and people were going to get paid. But 25% now then some larger amount later worked for a lot of people.
And going back to what I said on top of that how many people sold to people who they can no longer get in contact with for whatever reason.

Not quite the same but this class action suit:https://www.dollarsfordiskdrives.com
It went though 2 or 3 rounds of payments because they could not find people who were entitled to the funds and registered to get the funds so what was left was redistributed to the people they could find.
Look how long it ran: https://www.dollarsfordiskdrives.com/dates That's 6 years from when you could make a claim till the 1st payment. US only. AND THEY STILL COULD NOT FIND EVERYONE WHO MADE A CLAIM.

-Dave

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Quote from: DaveF on October 05, 2023, 01:44:56 PM

[...]

And so on. Having dealt with similar bankruptcy issues, I can say it's a mess when you KNOW everyone involved. Never mind the wonderful anonymous world of the internet and BTC

And once the money is sent, it's gone. So at least IMO better to be very slow and correct then even just a little bit faster and a very tiny bit wrong.

some peeps sold their accounts for a fraction of the balance back in the day.. im sure thats fun to sort out legally too.

DaveF

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Quote from: NotATether on October 05, 2023, 02:45:09 AM

Quote from: DaveF on September 21, 2023, 06:33:04 AM

Also from that article linked:

Quote

Additionally, Kobayashi explained that, for rehabilitation creditors who have provided the necessary information, repayments will be made in sequence as early as the end of this year.

From what I see the 2024 date is the END of the repayments, not the start. I can see them wanting to do it slowly and in batches to make sure it goes well as opposed to shoving it all out the door as fast as possible and dealing with all the issues at once. There are merits to doing it both ways.

-Dave

So this means, repayments will start at October 31 of this year and last for exactly one year.

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

They have a certain amount of money and they will be distributed on a pro-rata basis.
Remember, they have to navigate many countries laws. Make sure the proper people are getting the money and so on.

Think about it, you could have a MT Gox account with nothing more then an email address.

Due to the nature of my job I have accumulated many domains from businesses that have closed and have most of them setup to at least get some emails.
How would you feel if instead of [email protected] went to me instead of you since the company went out of business and I bought the domain for a few dollars.

Or and I hate to drag dead people into this, but we have had members here pass away. How big a shit show do you think it would be if I was in in business with another member here who died but I kept their email account active on our domain since why not and I claimed those funds that really should have gone to their estate.

And so on. Having dealt with similar bankruptcy issues, I can say it's a mess when you KNOW everyone involved. Never mind the wonderful anonymous world of the internet and BTC

And once the money is sent, it's gone. So at least IMO better to be very slow and correct then even just a little bit faster and a very tiny bit wrong.

-Dave

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I don't understand why they got a permit, either. They say they need some sort of info to get confirmed first, but I don't think it's a reasonable request. And by creditors, they mean the victims of Mt.Gox or is it something else? I assume it's the victims, but it can technically be about some companies who bought the debt or whatever.
DaveF correctly noted that the at least some payments will be done this year, so that's good, but overall, I don't think too much should be required from the victims in terms of documentation. Getting their money back is long overdue.

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Quote from: NotATether on October 05, 2023, 02:45:09 AM

So this means, repayments will start at October 31 of this year and last for exactly one year.

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

I would find the reason in the fact that they are simply not able to do it faster and more efficiently considering how much time it took them to get to the moment when the payments will start. I don't believe that money is a problem, because the total amount that the bankruptcy trustee has will simply be divided between all those who have submitted a request for compensation.

I don't know exactly what formula was used to calculate how much each victim will receive, but in any case it is only a partial compensation, given that most of the hacked BTC disappeared without a trace anyway.

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Quote from: bayu7adi on October 04, 2023, 02:45:32 PM

I perceive a significant danger looming if there isn't a system of justice and regulatory bodies in place to address cryptocurrency-related cases.

In short, you are calling for more regulation for crypto. Cryptocurrencies are already regulated in many countries and some others like the U.S. and U.K. are even very strict with crypto businesses which has made some of these businesses to cease offering their services to citizens from those countries. There is no significant danger looming in my honest opinion, people should hold their funds in self custody and not keep it with centralized services for a long time, because they are vulnerable to collapse at anytime.

Quote from: bayu7adi on October 04, 2023, 02:45:32 PM

but when I look at this from any angle, MT. Gox remains a case of failing to secure its users' assets.

And since the MT. Gox case, how many centralized exchanges and services have failed to secure its users assets and have either been hacked and collapsed or gamble away people's money and become insolvent? We've even lost count. Losing customers' money is typical of centralized exchanges even to this day.

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Quote from: DaveF on September 21, 2023, 06:33:04 AM

Also from that article linked:

Quote

Additionally, Kobayashi explained that, for rehabilitation creditors who have provided the necessary information, repayments will be made in sequence as early as the end of this year.

From what I see the 2024 date is the END of the repayments, not the start. I can see them wanting to do it slowly and in batches to make sure it goes well as opposed to shoving it all out the door as fast as possible and dealing with all the issues at once. There are merits to doing it both ways.

-Dave

So this means, repayments will start at October 31 of this year and last for exactly one year.

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

BenCodie

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I read about this in another thread. The same thoughts now as then, this screams to me that there is a purposeful attempt to delay the demand that the halving has provided for 3/3 times. Each time, it takes roughly 6 months for the bull cycle to be evident, and another 6-12 months to hit the first peak. October 2024 is pretty much 6 months after the halving. Coincidence? I really can't say that I believe it is one. I think something is happening behind the scenes to screw the people.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on October 04, 2023, 01:01:32 PM

I have noted in many of my comments on various topics that the absence of a regulatory framework that protects traders from the dangers of trading platforms could lead to unexpected disasters. The MTgox case was opened years ago and the length of time is due to the absence of a legal framework regulating trading activities, including proving charges and preparing indictment files before going through the procedures for proving ownership of accounts and then proving ownership of assets that are undergoing major changes that any legislative regulatory framework cannot bear. Take the example of the fork in the blockchain (Bitcoin). How will that fork be considered if it is owed by the users who own the assets, or by the owners of the platform (the defendants), or can the authorities seize it? Many other questions can be asked in the same context, and all of them cannot be answered smoothly.

I perceive a significant danger looming if there isn't a system of justice and regulatory bodies in place to address cryptocurrency-related cases. The issues that arise will undoubtedly become more convoluted if left unattended and without promptly establishing rules for all incidents related to assets that, up to this point, have ownership intricacies.

In my opinion, only rightful asset holders should reap the benefits of their restraint in not spending their bitcoins. This means that all gains should be distributed to the Mt. Gox customers, and any entity involved should adopt a fair stance regarding the temporary ownership status of these assets.

I understand that my perspective might not carry much weight, but when I look at this from any angle, MT. Gox remains a case of failing to secure its users' assets.

DaveF

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on September 25, 2023, 08:06:30 AM

Quote from: OgNasty on September 21, 2023, 03:44:55 PM

I’m wondering where they got that information and how true it is. I haven’t seen any notification of such. Maybe I should go check my mail, but typically these sorts of notifications are done over email and I usually receive them before seeing news articles like this. So for now I’m taking this news with a grain of salt, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were true.

DID you verify it as true, I know I am replying late, but I did not get the chance to read many replies, but now I am reading. And what do you think, if it's true? Because it came from the news and a letter was attached too, but it does not make me some official source. Instead, your statements indicate that you are also a victim of MT Gox.

As you said you must have received some emails.

It's on the mtgox website: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20230921_announcement_en.pdf so it's about as official as it's going to get.

I really wonder how messy this is going to be in the end. Wrong amounts paid, people who didn't get paid that should have, people who should not have gotten paid that did.
Just with the amount of people involved and the mess left behind I can see cleaning it up being just about impossible. Add in the decade + of time and it's just a mess.

-Dave

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Quote from: bayu7adi on September 22, 2023, 02:39:23 AM

In the end, the eagerly anticipated day may never arrive, as further delays are likely to emerge in the following year. A highly intricate process isn't deserving of hope. Considering that a significant portion of user funds is in the form of BTC, one should understand the consequences of protracted payment postponement; it only amplifies the amount one will ultimately need to settle.

I have noted in many of my comments on various topics that the absence of a regulatory framework that protects traders from the dangers of trading platforms could lead to unexpected disasters. The MTgox case was opened years ago and the length of time is due to the absence of a legal framework regulating trading activities, including proving charges and preparing indictment files before going through the procedures for proving ownership of accounts and then proving ownership of assets that are undergoing major changes that any legislative regulatory framework cannot bear. Take the example of the fork in the blockchain (Bitcoin). How will that fork be considered if it is owed by the users who own the assets, or by the owners of the platform (the defendants), or can the authorities seize it? Many other questions can be asked in the same context, and all of them cannot be answered smoothly.

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 21, 2023, 03:44:55 PM

I’m wondering where they got that information and how true it is. I haven’t seen any notification of such. Maybe I should go check my mail, but typically these sorts of notifications are done over email and I usually receive them before seeing news articles like this. So for now I’m taking this news with a grain of salt, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were true.

DID you verify it as true, I know I am replying late, but I did not get the chance to read many replies, but now I am reading. And what do you think, if it's true? Because it came from the news and a letter was attached too, but it does not make me some official source. Instead, your statements indicate that you are also a victim of MT Gox.

As you said you must have received some emails.

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Quote from: Z-tight on September 21, 2023, 01:27:46 PM

Another reason why people should not store their funds in an exchange, it must be frustrating for MT. Gox's creditors, having to wait this long and now an extra year added to the waiting time. On top of that, they aren't even getting a 100% refund because the exchange lost around 850,000 BTC and all they have right now is 140,000 BTC.

I am in no way supporting the hack or the freezing of customers of the MT. Gox because many of them have gone through a lot but the hack might be a blessing in disguise. Bitcoin was worth $489 when the exchange went bankrupt so they have made enough profit. If not for this hack, many of them would have sold off their coins for peanuts. I am sure there will be enough funds to pay all the creditors more than they invested.

Quote

This issue has been used for a long time to create fud in the BTC market, but take note that they will not be making the refund in only BTC, but they also have around 143,000 in BTC cash and 69 billion in Japanese yen, so ignore anybody who is trying to create fud with this situation or at least let us just wait for the payment to be made first and see how the market reacts.

The bitcoin market will react slightly to the news because 142,000 BTC is a large number. But it is good to raise the awareness that the Bitcoin market is strong enough to withstand such an amount so there is no need to entertain FUD. I have also learned that some creditor might decide to keep their coin.

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on September 21, 2023, 06:20:54 AM

To be honest, I almost thought that, they would increase the repayment date. But did not think that they would put an increment of 1 year. That's so long for the waiters. But if they have waited this long then I think they can wait for another year too. Plus I have a question, is this a good factor for the market or not? I do know that, if they would pay the amount then we will see some selling of BTC, BCH and Yuan, etc. Which would cause a dump in the market. But what else I am missing other than this?

It's been 9 years and what Mt.gox can do is promise, so I think those who are waiting to be paid are familiar with that and they don't rule out that possibility either. In my opinion, there will be no compensation other than false promises from Mt.gox, all of which are lies and fraud from Mt.gox.

What I want is for the victims to be compensated, I'm not afraid they will dump the market if they receive compensation. If you are a long-term investor, you will find that good because you have the opportunity to buy cheap. I don't see anything worrying about Mt.gox compensating or FTX liquidating their crypto assets.

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In the end, the eagerly anticipated day may never arrive, as further delays are likely to emerge in the following year. A highly intricate process isn't deserving of hope. Considering that a significant portion of user funds is in the form of BTC, one should understand the consequences of protracted payment postponement; it only amplifies the amount one will ultimately need to settle.

Is this related to the halving? However, I'm not entirely certain about that. Mt. Gox could potentially capitalize on price pumps during the halving by managing their funds. But I believe another delay might be in store when October 2024 arrives, as the pump may not necessarily materialize before the advent of 2025.

Topic: Repayment Deadline Increased for the MT Gox Exchange’s Creditors (Read 377 times)