Reporting Posts - Max 2 Years After Posting? - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: hilariousetc on September 04, 2019, 10:15:36 AM

How would you really police this effectively though? Do you think it should be made a forum rule or just an unwritten one? Should we prohibit old posts from even being allowed to be reported in the first place by removing the report button for posts that are x amount of time old? Then what happens when there is something that should be removed like doxxing or whatnot? I agree that half of the time very old posts aren't important (especially when people are seemingly going out of their way to find minor infractions) but the only way I can think of is to make it known that it's unnecessary to report certain things, especially if they're historic cases (and for minor violations). Probably wont stop people from reporting them though. Probably bigger things to worry about as well really.

By most of the comments it is probably bad idea, with even 1% of chance to be accepted in any form - as forum rule, or just as a guideline for moderators. I was just thinking that if sometning is not reported in period of two years (and it was bad), it should stay in past - but I guess it is better to leave things as they are now.

Quote from: suchmoon on September 04, 2019, 04:52:42 PM

May I suggest that someone concerned about getting caught for plagiarism committed 5 years ago should just go to their post history and remove said plagiarism. Or just say that they bought the account, that works too.

I doubt people with thousands of posts will even try to do that, it is not only time consuming, but it is hard to remove such post if you do not know that it is copy / pasted from somewhere. In that one case where user is claim he bought account with plagiarism posts, admin is step in and check his log history which proved he is not real owner of account. I doubt we will see another case like that.

tranthidung

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Quote from: Findingnemo on September 04, 2019, 08:11:20 AM

Reporting 5 year post is useless I guess because its not going to help the forum,there are lot of spams were created everyday why not report them just instead of five year old.

It is not wrong if someone reports posts that made 2 or 5 years ago, if it is bad posts. However, there are some reasons that we should avoid that approach:
(1) Forum resources are limited. Staffs and moderators have bunches of works, hundreds or thousands of reports to handle, and they also have to do their own reports too (from staffs to global moderators and admins). Therefore, they should focus their time and energy for most important things, that is lively now, rather than dead ones from years ago.
(2) It is too difficult and time-consuming to dig deeply in to the past (years ago), so judge old posts are off-topic (e.g.) or not and handle them.
(3) Effects from handling those bad posts are not too significant, so I agreed with your opinion.
(4) If someone find proof of plagiarism, I agree that they should do report, but if reasons are different than plagiarism (off-topic, e.g.), I think bad posts that have more than 2 years old should be ignored.

tbct_mt2

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on September 04, 2019, 08:16:01 AM

I have seen users were punished because of a sin they have done 3+ years ago. I think it was plagiarism. I am not against punishment but once a user establish themselves worthy and contributing the forum from long years the forum owe them. Punishing them for a sin that was done years ago is unfair.

I too think when reporters are reporting, they should deal with recent posts and when mods are moderating then they should not go back for x amount of time. I understand people will have different opinions.

Most of permanent bans come from plagiarism, and most of recent months ban appeal threads closed when proof of plagiarism found. More details about plagiarism in my topic, and there are a few contributive factors for second chance after permament bans because of plagiarism.
[TIPS] to avoid plagiarism

Quote from: tbct_mt2 on June 03, 2019, 09:47:02 PM

You actually can take your second chance with temporary ban and signature ban for one or two years. You can get it or not, depends on your past activities (things presented below are not mine, I describe perspectives of global mods that I read during the banwave in many appeals). There are some factors:
- Total posts that you plagiarised.
- Percentage of plagiarised posts / your total posts (more than half - 50% - will wipe out your second chance, surely)
- Time points of your plagiarism (before or after the rule on plagiarism applied in the forum)
- Your past contributions.

Quote from: hilariousandco on May 15, 2019, 11:26:38 AM

Globals can now issue sig bans so it'll happen more often but isn't going to be a let off for everyone (so if half your posts are copy and pastes then forget about it but people who are getting banned for one or two posts from years ago will likely be shown some mercy).

DaveF

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I'll just leave this here.
Said it in May.
Said it again the other day.
There needs to be a limit, not sure what it is, but it needs to be there.
-Dave

Quote from: DaveF on September 03, 2019, 10:58:37 AM

There was a similar thread about this back in May:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-current-permaban-situation-is-ridiculous-5142827

I had a few comments in it and walked away, but I do think the following is still important and should be discussed.
The broad overview is someone I know got a permaban for plagiarism. Problem is, it was his own work he copied / pasted.

If he comes forward, even in private the mods who read it will know who he is IRL. He does not want that.
When I discussed it with him, he was not even happy *I* knew who he was here / that he was posting here.
So I let it go.

But the following is still important:

Quote from: DaveF on May 15, 2019, 12:04:07 PM

The other issue would be that since he has almost no merit and a lower post count it's going to be tough to make a good defense.

Yes, it's a very rare 1 off case, but it's still there. And if I know 1 person who had it happen, I will bet you just about any amount there is at least one more.
Possibly they have had an issue with another forum member and this was a push they needed to leave.
Does their SO think they spend too much time on here and it's an internal excuse to leave?
Did they cash out 18 months ago when BTC was at $20k and just don't care as much?

Could they appeal? yes.
Do they want to? possibly.
Will they because of external factors? perhaps not, or at least not now.

As I said, spamming & plagiarizing now. You're out of here. Once it's over 1500 days old and has not been done since? Temp ban with stern warning or something.

-Dave

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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This suggestion won't be fair in general, we have different categories of forum members, some are popular per se while others aren't. We have those who can get away with disobeying forum rules by staying under the radar while others can't. The punishment for serious offends like plagiarism shouldn't be judged based on when it was done.

Plagiarism should be considered plagiarism anytime, any day. The best (which the forum is already doing) is to lessen the punishment if that user have a net positive record. On the other hand, the report and deletion of old spams should totally dependant on the parties involved (reporter/moderator) although in my little understanding, I don't see it as an issue with the except to giving moderators more workload although if we're fighting against spam on the forum then it should involve zero tolerance irrespective of post date.

Spam = low quality post, what's the usefulness of such post on the board?

suchmoon

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May I suggest that someone concerned about getting caught for plagiarism committed 5 years ago should just go to their post history and remove said plagiarism. Or just say that they bought the account, that works too.

malevolent

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Quote from: Rozita on September 04, 2019, 04:04:00 PM

Agree with the OP.
When you are to sue someone, there's a deadline for you. After that time you won't be eligible to sue that person.
This may be irrelevant with reporting the posts in the forum in your opinion. But I don't think there is any difference between them. Both are breaking the rules. In United States, in the case of injuries, the deadline is only 3 years. I don't think breaking a rule here in the forum is worse than that. If a contract is breached, you have six years to sue the person even if you have all documents to prove that.

The forum is not a court of law. There is no deadline after which a reported post won't be acted upon because it doesn't cost much for a moderator to look over it. And there are very good reasons why plagiarizers are dealt harshly with no matter how much time has passed.

Rozita

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Agree with the OP.
When you are to sue someone, there's a deadline for you. After that time you won't be eligible to sue that person.
This may be irrelevant with reporting the posts in the forum in your opinion. But I don't think there is any difference between them. Both are breaking the rules. In United States, in the case of injuries, the deadline is only 3 years. I don't think breaking a rule here in the forum is worse than that. If a contract is breached, you have six years to sue the person even if you have all documents to prove that.

examplens

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Quote from: mainconcept on September 04, 2019, 11:25:39 AM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on September 04, 2019, 09:36:34 AM

The question is, where to draw the line.

Someone could argue why to ban the 5 post newbie over plagiarism, because he could be potentially useful to the forum in the future.

I compare the forum rules to like an agreement of a contract - when I sign a contract, I also must adhere the contract terms, otherwise I have to deal with the consequences.

It doesn't matter whether I've read the agreement / forum rules or not.

And the second question is what to do with people who are banned because of the same reason?
Banned because of one-two non-quoted posts posted 5 years ago. although he later proved himself to be a useful member. They would be collateral harm.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: mainconcept on September 04, 2019, 11:25:39 AM

Someone could argue why to ban the 5 post newbie over plagiarism, because he could be potentially useful to the forum in the future.

There are an awful lot of newbies who plagiarize, and there are very few of them who then go on to become an asset to the forum. It is very much the exception, not the rule. Not banning someone for breaking the rules in case they then go on to do something beneficial in the future would mean that no one gets punished for anything ever. If you have become an asset to the forum, and a minor infraction from years ago is found, then some leniency seems fair, but if we offer that leniency to every brand new account then the forum would rapidly deteriorate in to an unusable spamfest.

In terms of the OP, I tend to agree. Reporting spam from over a week old is usually a waste of time since the spammers will already have been paid for it and no one is reading it anyway. It's reasonable to report more major things like linking to malware or plagiarism though. I think the place we seem to be at regarding temporary bans and signature bans if an established and beneficial user is found to have made some historical plagiarism is probably the right balance.

mainconcept

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on September 04, 2019, 09:36:34 AM

The question is, where to draw the line.

Someone could argue why to ban the 5 post newbie over plagiarism, because he could be potentially useful to the forum in the future.

I compare the forum rules to like an agreement of a contract - when I sign a contract, I also must adhere the contract terms, otherwise I have to deal with the consequences.

It doesn't matter whether I've read the agreement / forum rules or not.

virendarnagpal

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In case the member was copy pasting number of times then the person deserves punishment even if it is reported years after posting. But may be due to ignorance of law of the forum a person posted just one post and thereafter posted his own posts and proved to be helpful for the forum; then he should not be punished by perma banning of account.
though ignorance of rule / law is no exception.

hilariousetc

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Quote from: Lucius on September 04, 2019, 08:09:19 AM

With regard to recent cases of deleting hundreds of posts from some users (justified, but still unnecessary), and banning users for something they did 4-5 years ago, I would suggest that posts should be reported to moderators max two years from time they are posted. I think it would be quite fair solution for everyone, if user is not punished in two years after posting something, it should remain in the past.

Some will certainly disagree with this proposal, but I think we need to focus more on the present or the recent past.

How would you really police this effectively though? Do you think it should be made a forum rule or just an unwritten one? Should we prohibit old posts from even being allowed to be reported in the first place by removing the report button for posts that are x amount of time old? Then what happens when there is something that should be removed like doxxing or whatnot? I agree that half of the time very old posts aren't important (especially when people are seemingly going out of their way to find minor infractions) but the only way I can think of is to make it known that it's unnecessary to report certain things, especially if they're historic cases (and for minor violations). Probably wont stop people from reporting them though. Probably bigger things to worry about as well really.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: mainconcept on September 04, 2019, 08:35:58 AM

Plagiarism is not a sin, nor a little mistake, it is simply against forum rules.

That probably wasn't meant in a religious sense, just sayin'.

I don't have a problem with plagiarism offenses being caught years down the road, but the deleting and reporting of posts for minor violations is unnecessary IMO. On the other hand, what does it matter? If someone's post count goes down because of very old posts being deleted, what's the worst that could happen? I don't think many members are going to get busted down in rank because of that, nor would they lose money in a sig campaign (assuming the campaign manager doesn't just look at post count).

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on September 04, 2019, 09:36:34 AM

User x plagiarized 5 years ago and it was his 5th post at that time.

It's forgivable.

I'd tend to agree. One instance years ago shouldn't necessarily result in a permaban if the member is otherwise an asset to the forum. That's just my opinion, however.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: mainconcept on September 04, 2019, 08:35:58 AM

Plagiarism is not a sin, nor a little mistake, it is simply against forum rules.

(Hypothetical example)

User x plagiarized 5 years ago and it was his 5th post at that time.

Current status-

Activity: 2798
Merit: 3925
Posts: 13411
Especial note: This user helped good number of forum users and he built up a good name for himself.

Decision time
What will you do?
Enforce the forum rules!

My personal stand: I will not enforce the rule. The user is a gem for my community.
Explanation: When he was new here, he did not realize the value of the forum so he made sin/mistakes here and there. It's forgivable.

mainconcept

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If someone broke rules 5 minutes ago or 5 years ago shouldn't matter, altough I agree that reporting 5 year old spamposts doesn't make sense.

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on September 04, 2019, 08:16:01 AM

~~~
I have seen users were punished because of a sin they have done 3+ years ago. I think it was plagiarism.
~~~

Plagiarism is not a sin, nor a little mistake, it is simply against forum rules.

Quote from: theymos on September 23, 2018, 03:58:25 PM

Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: Lucius on September 04, 2019, 08:09:19 AM

Some will certainly disagree with this proposal, but I think we need to focus more on the present or the recent past.

I have seen users were punished because of a sin they have done 3+ years ago. I think it was plagiarism. I am not against punishment but once a user establish themselves worthy and contributing the forum from long years the forum owe them. Punishing them for a sin that was done years ago is unfair.

I too think when reporters are reporting, they should deal with recent posts and when mods are moderating then they should not go back for x amount of time. I understand people will have different opinions.

Findingnemo

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Reporting 5 year post is useless I guess because its not going to help the forum,there are lot of spams were created everyday why not report them just instead of five year old.

Lucius

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With regard to recent cases of deleting hundreds of posts from some users (justified, but still unnecessary), and banning users for something they did 4-5 years ago, I would suggest that posts should be reported to moderators max two years from time they are posted. I think it would be quite fair solution for everyone, if user is not punished in two years after posting something, it should remain in the past.

Some will certainly disagree with this proposal, but I think we need to focus more on the present or the recent past.

Topic: Reporting Posts - Max 2 Years After Posting? - page 2. (Read 647 times)