Requesting Testnet4 tBTC - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: vjudeu on October 28, 2024, 05:33:07 AM

Yes, try "bitcoin-util grind". It will allow you to CPU-mine absolutely any block headers, you just put some 80 bytes there, and you will get some 80 bytes back, with the right nonce (if it exists).

How do I create my own block header from scratch? I checked the specifications in learnmeabitcoin, but this is for main net, and for example, version bits are not the same. Is there a Bitcoin Core command which creates me the 80-bytes given input parameters?
What if none of the 2^32 nonces is correct?

Sorry for the loaded questions, but Bitcoin Core is mountain of information, and I have never mined beyond for typical testing.

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

Is there a mining software which can take block timestamp as an input value?

Yes, try "bitcoin-util grind". It will allow you to CPU-mine absolutely any block headers, you just put some 80 bytes there, and you will get some 80 bytes back, with the right nonce (if it exists).

Quote

The ckpool miner not only does keep the block for 20 minutes before sending it, but his timestamp is also 20 minutes plus a second into the future.

Yes, because you first mine a block with future timestamp, and then you broadcast it, at the right time. If you would mine it with earlier timestamp than that, then you would need to meet the real network difficulty. Which is also, why ASIC miners increase inflation, when they put the current time in their blocks (because then, the current time can be rolled back, according to the MTP rule, and the same timestamp can be reached again by CPU miners).

BlackHatCoiner

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Is there a mining software which can take block timestamp as an input value? The ckpool miner not only does keep the block for 20 minutes before sending it, but his timestamp is also 20 minutes plus a second into the future. I cannot try submitting a block without having it mined to 20 min + 1 sec into the future beforehand.

I've been searching in the source code of cpuminer-opt for quite some time now, but can't find anything. It's difficult to understand, because it's in C.

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

it returns "null"

Quote

3. You avoid all kind of "already seen block, nothing to be done" cases, where your own node will do nothing, because it already has that particular block.

If you send a block to your own node, which already has it, then it does nothing.

Quote

Why is it inconclusive?

Let's see the code: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpc/mining.cpp#L1057

Quote

Code:

static RPCHelpMan submitblock()
{
//...
bool new_block;
auto sc = std::make_shared(block.GetHash());
CHECK_NONFATAL(chainman.m_options.signals)->RegisterSharedValidationInterface(sc);
bool accepted = miner.processNewBlock(blockptr, /*new_block=*/&new_block);
CHECK_NONFATAL(chainman.m_options.signals)->UnregisterSharedValidationInterface(sc);
if (!new_block && accepted) {
return "duplicate";
}
if (!sc->found) {
return "inconclusive";
}
return BIP22ValidationResult(sc->state);
},
};
}

I guess your block is then "valid", but there is some other block, at the same height. And then, your block may be correct, but the other block may be also correct. The next block will tell the truth. And the next ASIC block will pick the right chain, and destroy all alternative chains.

Or: maybe you are trying to submit a block too early to the node, when it is "not yet valid". Because you have a valid block, some CPU miners have a valid block, some ASIC miners have a valid block, and first-seen-safe rule is applied. And because the block difficulty is equal to one in "86% cases", then the final winner is announced, when the block with the real difficulty appears.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

I submit header for block 52409 with submitheader, it returns "null". I submit the block with submitblock, I get "inconclusive". Why is it inconclusive? Both are executed from my virtual machine, which runs the v28 binaries, and there is no block 52409 mined yet.

Edit: I get block data with: getblock false

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

How do I get block header from this information?

Code:

$ ./bitcoin-cli -testnet4 getblockheader 00000000da84f2bafbbc53dee25a72ae507ff4914b867c565be350b0da8bf043
{
"hash": "00000000da84f2bafbbc53dee25a72ae507ff4914b867c565be350b0da8bf043",
"confirmations": 52378,
"height": 0,
"version": 1,
"versionHex": "00000001",
"merkleroot": "7aa0a7ae1e223414cb807e40cd57e667b718e42aaf9306db9102fe28912b7b4e",
"time": 1714777860,
"mediantime": 1714777860,
"nonce": 393743547,
"bits": "1d00ffff",
"difficulty": 1,
"chainwork": "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100010001",
"nTx": 1,
"nextblockhash": "0000000012982b6d5f621229286b880e909984df669c2afabb102ce311b13f28"
}
$ ./bitcoin-cli -testnet4 getblockheader 00000000da84f2bafbbc53dee25a72ae507ff4914b867c565be350b0da8bf043 false
0100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004e7b2b9128fe0291db0693af2ae418b767e657cd407e80cb1434221eaea7a07a046f3566ffff001dbb0c7817

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: vjudeu on October 27, 2024, 12:14:27 PM

You don't. You send your block header first, and then the full block. You have "submitheader" and "submitblock" commands. If your header will arrive first, then you may win a block propagation game.

I generated block 52407 (not appeared in mempool.space). Raw coinbase transaction data:

Code:

010000000001010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff0403b7cc00ffffffff0200f2052a01000000160014343fca89c852788c087728070f294e80ce72fe4a0000000000000000266a24aa21a9ede2f61c3f71d1defd3fa999dfa36953755c690689799962b48bebd836974e8cf90120000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

TXID:

Code:

a9b1594d3f8fbda67b1e485b8a4de9c2d38fcc4cf93c4508f4eeb5d13538ed05

Code:

gettransaction a9b1594d3f8fbda67b1e485b8a4de9c2d38fcc4cf93c4508f4eeb5d13538ed05
{
"amount": 0.00000000,
"confirmations": 1,
"generated": true,
"blockhash": "0000000027521d8b76a73490f27087b3189fe7a7614a7cec0636f0412db5f88c",
"blockheight": 52407,
"blockindex": 0,
"blocktime": 1730058694,
"txid": "a9b1594d3f8fbda67b1e485b8a4de9c2d38fcc4cf93c4508f4eeb5d13538ed05",
"wtxid": "b9b7bd7aa1b6487d1d286b592f9de3cfa101fb68b60783c049fe8f34a59b4ab0",
"walletconflicts": [
],
"mempoolconflicts": [
],
"time": 1730051190,
"timereceived": 1730051190,
"bip125-replaceable": "no",
"details": [
{
"address": "tb1qxslu4zwg2fugczrh9qrs722wsr889lj2uktrpz",
"parent_descs": [
"wpkh(tpubD6NzVbkrYhZ4Y4tvSfi7jsD1MQz5Ecw2jMuZD43sT79UpkY99bKXSmTcVpaNsGEwSD3zWfypmabZT1vEbEUGHbZH5UkHvnReFpf6DVT3TRo/84h/1h/0h/0/*)#m2n7l9cq"
],
"category": "immature",
"amount": 50.00000000,
"label": "",
"vout": 0,
"abandoned": false
}
],
"hex": "010000000001010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff0403b7cc00ffffffff0200f2052a01000000160014343fca89c852788c087728070f294e80ce72fe4a0000000000000000266a24aa21a9ede2f61c3f71d1defd3fa999dfa36953755c690689799962b48bebd836974e8cf90120000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000",
"lastprocessedblock": {
"hash": "0000000027521d8b76a73490f27087b3189fe7a7614a7cec0636f0412db5f88c",
"height": 52407
}
}

How do I get block header from this information?

BTW, I randomly generated a block that was accepted by the network: https://mempool.space/testnet4/block/0000000044ea653dce3aa39a18f2a044b0a3712e462c1fa11064bc45a51db0df. That's some luck.

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

Question, how do you send a coinbase transaction to other peers?

You don't. You send your block header first, and then the full block. You have "submitheader" and "submitblock" commands. If your header will arrive first, then you may win a block propagation game.

Quote

Am I missing anything?

Caching I guess, if the source code is the original one. Try to clean up your build folder (if you are building things from source code). Or, you can pull the latest master, just to be sure. Or: compare it with original binaries, and see, if they also show you the minimal difficulty.

By the way, after I enabled difficulty adjustment in regtest, it seems to jump from 0x207fffff into 0x1e09debb. Didn't expect that, it should increase or decrease by four times at maximum. My plan was to use the real CPU difficulty as "ASIC" blocks, and 0x207fffff as "CPU" blocks. Still trying to debug it.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: vjudeu on October 27, 2024, 11:19:06 AM

The winner is the fastest device, which will announce it before other nodes.

The winner is the fastest device, as long as the ASIC miners ignore reality, for if they decide to compete by reorging (as there is no money at risk), only the most powerful wins. And, I'd say it's a matter of time until this happens, because tBTC4 are worth real money.

Quote

And that is the answer, why you can see a lot of blocks in your node, in this 20 hours rule network. Because a lot of them have just a CPU difficulty. And then, only when a new block appears, which has the real network difficulty, only then they disappear, because then, such block brings a bigger chainwork.

So, to cut a long story short: To mine using your CPU, you need to be prepared to broadcast the transaction at the right time. Question, how do you send a coinbase transaction to other peers? Bitcoin Core does not allow me with sendrawtransaction. (code -26)

BTW, I just setup a Bitcoin Core v28 testnet4 node (without garlonicon's modifications), and difficulty is 1. Am I missing anything?

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

but how have you come to that conclusion?

1. Get all block hashes from a given difficulty period.
2. Check "bits" value in each block header.
3. If it is equal to 0x1d00ffff, then count it as a CPU block, if not, then ASIC (that is the reason, why the first period has only CPU blocks).

Quote

since 86% of the blocks of this difficulty period were mined by CPU, then what were we talking about in the previous page?

If you have a CPU-mined block, then it doesn't matter, who mined it. You can mine it on your CPU, GPU, ASIC, doesn't matter. But: the winner is not the most powerful device. The winner is the fastest device, which will announce it before other nodes.

Also, even if ASICs mine blocks with CPU difficulty, then you can challenge that block with a CPU, and reorg it. But obviously: blocks with the real network difficulty are used to finally decide, what is the real chain.

And that is the answer, why you can see a lot of blocks in your node, in this 20 hours rule network. Because a lot of them have just a CPU difficulty. And then, only when a new block appears, which has the real network difficulty, only then they disappear, because then, such block brings a bigger chainwork.

So, in practice, you have a long chains of CPU-mined block, which are then picked by some ASIC-mined block.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: vjudeu on October 27, 2024, 08:49:06 AM

As you can see, in the current difficulty period, we have 1715 out of 1976 blocks, mined by CPUs.

I feel stupid for asking, but how have you come to that conclusion? Did you just check the block hashes, and count which ones have a work of difficulty=1? And an even better question (which I'm not feeling so dumb for asking): since 86% of the blocks of this difficulty period were mined by CPU, then what were we talking about in the previous page? I thought we were acknowledging defeat to ASIC dominance.

vjudeu

copper member

Activity: 909

Merit: 2301

Quote

shouldn't an equilibrium between difficult blocks and easy blocks be reached?

I guess it is not yet fully reached. Let's see some statistics:

Code:

+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| index | hash | bits | difficulty | CPU blocks | ASIC blocks |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 0 | 00000000da84f2bafbbc53dee25a72ae507ff4914b867c565be350b0da8bf043 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | 2016 | 0 |
| 2015 | 00000000962a7fc2ef639196051fe181ed53ac6aa4cdfead14dca90f58aa36bc | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 2016 | 0000000022553c1da1031726d09b8fa37ac3c03165d0972ae954dd1c90c7cbda | 1c3fffc0 | 4.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 4031 | 000000002ad661157c553c0bbbb2490407adb1c8ac09f2b2a7174f87eeeb64bf | 1c3fffc0 | 4.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 4032 | 000000000792f7a84c017b63468ed7132f8069841a921d39716e2ff14d950fd3 | 1c0ffff0 | 16.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 6047 | 000000000be3ff43cde9eed4d6b2d4ad16c4f9509ccb94e1001af68e2f6647b3 | 1c0ffff0 | 16.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 6048 | 000000000376f28a9df7bf1d45470d084ed09e78625e3e25109a7f11b2fa266f | 1c03fffc | 64.00000000 | 1 | 2015 |
| 8063 | 00000000001ef2e4c2fc174354ed357cf313725fc336092733b2699d36342ff8 | 1c03fffc | 64.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 8064 | 00000000002edbad13892451b053e4e75ec54b1f3ce5d00f808baa1e4e9bc65e | 1c00ffff | 256.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 10079 | 000000000025269f9fa4b0832ccbfef682d59c0fa8845b0c22cc24a1973f011a | 1c00ffff | 256.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 10080 | 000000000018828dad355a5ea172793b807de4e80cec54b6b5d3aef93b3996d1 | 1b3fffc0 | 1024.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 12095 | 000000000014b2d6b2ad804d5deb8d5b4a58caf152f6cea5600af0d9348dff29 | 1b3fffc0 | 1024.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 12096 | 000000000007e1b5b1a23cad1175ed4d2e9a88a12222a16cdf0019a35c634c61 | 1b0ffff0 | 4096.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 14111 | 000000000003c067c302d43c9499da6e382260252a2a29caf9748ee6972d5f01 | 1b0ffff0 | 4096.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 14112 | 0000000000021e11392499ed1c7087d5c0a6724dd7ff0638619af86e6cc7e82c | 1b03fffc | 16384.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 16127 | 000000000002180d23f15ba0b8161d9d38d03c61ab51d050c57928e1a7d98e0c | 1b03fffc | 16384.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 16128 | 00000000000022bc5e9ca16af6e2715359ed600774b2558e18988c0e8402aab3 | 1b00ffff | 65536.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 18143 | 000000000000ed8722220a13b09d968a59686af5fc5c1e0a86371a498209fa72 | 1b00ffff | 65536.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 18144 | 0000000000001e4a4c72e90664fb71ceef9900bf382604b58536ec9f90eb8729 | 1a3fffc0 | 262144.00000000 | 0 | 2016 |
| 20159 | 0000000000003e82df3830ff7c05a58745a463a59d1097e160e47ac7aeb5323a | 1a3fffc0 | 262144.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 20160 | 0000000000000983ebe71bcdefae0c2321226f32f105b44a03a0d90f232ecc6f | 1a0ffff0 | 1048576.00000000 | 2 | 2014 |
| 22175 | 0000000000000c3f18b9a30269c4b53dd107bacf20482e4ec660e9970999a99f | 1a0ffff0 | 1048576.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 22176 | 00000000000001a9c042d9f44e74e78446410217f9f3d671f1ced3ea720d94e3 | 1a03fffc | 4194304.00000000 | 4 | 2012 |
| 24191 | 00000000000002901853780dc8a63efd4d72359d8de7e14dc0398ccfc53d45cd | 1a03fffc | 4194304.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 24192 | 0000000000000086fdd9b2b5982dc5ecadb8f25445a45306a7d9798b8f441064 | 1a00ffff | 16777216.00000000 | 79 | 1937 |
| 26207 | 00000000000000a6ff1615113d25eeed8554813e4994f8ef7ce96458083d14cf | 1a00ffff | 16777216.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 26208 | 000000000000007160fe744c7e59f6cc4b75555f62cc67948f6607040e039304 | 19780d66 | 35775244.73240253 | 685 | 1331 |
| 28223 | 000000000000006e2d4fa8204c67c0986f9bb0214990b11043d0653d50755f54 | 19780d66 | 35775244.73240253 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 28224 | 0000000000000011020fcb8f6021592338c5630f61bf42dcf433f410542a77ed | 1a0082a5 | 32874715.22081029 | 425 | 1591 |
| 30239 | 00000000eaf8e0ea253d833614892aed70c55e5dc4b4d6709dd6420b8284debb | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 30240 | 00000000000000120d7606024929d5f9eca5de12ec56b804cfa90e70b66de7e5 | 1973b070 | 37124480.30118410 | 699 | 1317 |
| 32255 | 0000000000000063d3ca489d113ded6196c99f3785b61a8ded9254ebb96bc765 | 1973b070 | 37124480.30118410 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 32256 | 000000000000002225e8da5b94adcab32a8a51d8d9a975b1275cce751dccd2d5 | 19788fdf | 35624009.93771160 | 487 | 1529 |
| 34271 | 000000000000003f684cab6cdb7fe6e98cb13318bb45acdc2d2e2d7405b8bcbe | 19788fdf | 35624009.93771160 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 34272 | 000000000000004c9e6897dc3d20c1c612a2876bfe323afc20af8837cd5e628a | 19572ce1 | 49267411.23518301 | 765 | 1251 |
| 36287 | 000000000000001f735b5a23732fb201cf6343b373c94a35f04e6b6075591889 | 19572ce1 | 49267411.23518301 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 36288 | 000000000000004762bd79df2825434206b092996a32c4f224d1d1fda1ab5e6f | 19609307 | 44472500.68822794 | 676 | 1340 |
| 38303 | 000000001c247a1eb479ecc56ea7d7529f0c4afb6b7025f437a7d235454cd6a4 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 38304 | 0000000000000027fad48a2c15c347840f9f95c185553b3aa968959d39cfeca4 | 1954fa04 | 50542155.96390609 | 658 | 1358 |
| 40319 | 00000000acd1400a4801f361d675644993ad05e5b735a881f26746ece767521e | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 40320 | 0000000000000011e7cf114aa4980cbd74c2c07fccc8b025480dd4b7e1d96110 | 194d9574 | 55358228.00276604 | 1089 | 927 |
| 42335 | 00000000542792e54a720567ba66157d48cdae7bfd01c1b678d0f07a2ed56e99 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 42336 | 0000000000000016be66ab39af9f97e1294080c94d0a34cc304e391794a481bd | 1949d95f | 58157803.15063407 | 1222 | 794 |
| 44351 | 00000000ca301f565989627133247615bc937b52c68f8f4b342b6c2aeebff7ba | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 44352 | 000000000000000e9fc1f0c52e1c666117390e21d8c9341ec64c0f2f89d5b071 | 1925d988 | 113472450.02796190 | 1572 | 444 |
| 46367 | 00000000e4ad2ec95dfddce6a554f626c9995e465b067e72528f6ae164fc58d2 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 46368 | 000000000000000b655f2a9aae8935af546e7a98206308b528a9a418817b6755 | 191c863c | 150569646.78157160 | 1656 | 360 |
| 48383 | 00000000761cd6bff5e11258943e401e1bb094a8013e810e1d6031ce273a4b7c | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 48384 | 000000000000000926c6550e123e4825ae9210bf79bb1efbc7af0d11e18a8b8a | 191761d3 | 183683117.04108210 | 1658 | 358 |
| 50399 | 00000000082032b915c151f1bb9892fe924013539924a34ec8b9bdea16eb7374 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+
| 50400 | 000000000000000b284a03e3987f4d926685e368cf27c46765113c8d97a38d19 | 1911826a | 245290781.98250450 | 1715 | 261 |
| 52375 | 0000000000440d8980a1b43a666ee8d538b88ede8bfefbb585646bd5d21b02c2 | 1d00ffff | 1.00000000 | +/- 40 | +/- 40 |
| 52415 | 40 blocks to be mined, 1976 ready from 2016 | | | | |
+-------+------------------------------------------------------------------+----------+--------------------+------------+-------------+

As you can see, in the current difficulty period, we have 1715 out of 1976 blocks, mined by CPUs. Which means, that currently, CPU miners reached something around 86% network domination, when it comes to producing blocks.

I guess the maximum value would be somewhere around 90% in practice, but I didn't fully tested it yet. My first guess is that it is related to Median Time Past rule of 11 blocks, where you can produce up to six blocks per second, so ASICs are left with 1/6th of the supply (because they bring back the real time in blocks, so the same timestamps are produced over and over again, until MTP rule forces it to be moved forward).

DaveF

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6320

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: LoyceV on October 27, 2024, 07:24:44 AM

Quote from: DaveF on October 27, 2024, 06:19:51 AM

There are no victims there are juts people who want free money and think that this is a way to get it.

I called them victims because there's someone who takes advantage of them. That "someone" also wants free money, he's just much better at getting it.

Yeah, be at least the scammer put some effort into it. The took the time and created the scam and the things that were needed to deal with it.

The person who wanted the free magical internet money just treated it like an online shopping experience and sent their money to someone who was going to just send them more free money in return.

When I send my money to Amazon I expect cat food and some toothpaste to show up. [Well it's Amazon I figure it's a 50 / 50 chance] I don't expect to be able to order 500 $10 bills for the cost of 500 $1 bills.

Slightly off topic but kind of on point. As of now ETH staking will get you between 3.5% to 4% if you are sitting there running your own validator.
That is the most you are going to get.
But there are places still offering more because they 'know the secret sauce' but you can't control your keys and everything else you have to send your coins to them for them to control. Sooner or later it's going to end poorly. But people still do it. Instead of doing the research and figuring out it's impossible.

-Dave

Edit: And to those I merited I was a bit cheap with them since I am down to my last 10 that I can give out. Will send more sooner or later.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: DaveF on October 27, 2024, 06:19:51 AM

Perhaps a bit harsh, but things like this are not any different then the people selling 'gold as the best investment' and then selling you gold at 15% above what you can get it for just about anyplace else.

There's nothing wrong with that, IMO. Gold is less saleable than Bitcoin, so it's reasonable that you'll get higher prices for the people nearby you. If you want to buy gold at the market price, then be responsible and look it out yourself.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 27, 2024, 07:24:44 AM

I called them victims because there's someone who takes advantage of them.

But does he, really? If you look at it objectively, there's a buyer and a seller. The seller sells at price X because he believes his thing is worth less than X, and the buyer buys at price X because he believes it's worth more. If either of them thought the price was inappropriate, the trade would not take place. Therefore, both need to be happy with the rules, and there's no "item description" that the buyer is unaware of, to consider it a fraud. Everything is transparent.

Both are equally guilty for whichever outcome.

LoyceV

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Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: DaveF on October 27, 2024, 06:19:51 AM

There are no victims there are juts people who want free money and think that this is a way to get it.

I called them victims because there's someone who takes advantage of them. That "someone" also wants free money, he's just much better at getting it.

DaveF

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: LoyceV on October 26, 2024, 12:44:31 PM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 26, 2024, 12:00:59 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on October 26, 2024, 11:50:44 AM

That's just a matter of twisting the narrative: they loved the halving block, so why not start their own testnet Ordinal BS from the same hash as the halving block?

What would it matter if nobody paid attention? They're attention seekers. They don't care to test or learn. They just want to throw it on your face, so you can be the next fool.

All true. But their victims aren't experienced Bitcoin users. If they'd know what they're doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

Quote from: vjudeu on October 26, 2024, 12:19:06 PM

By the way: when testnet4 ASIC miners will start reorging CPU-mined blocks, it will have the same effect.

Can we call this a 99.9999% attack on CPU-miners?

There are no victims there are juts people who want free money and think that this is a way to get it.
Or they know better then everyone else and their new best friend they found on the internet is going to get it for them.

If someone pulled out a gun or a knife or threatened them in some way to buy them then they are victims.
These are just suckers / idiots getting what they deserve.

Perhaps a bit harsh, but things like this are not any different then the people selling 'gold as the best investment' and then selling you gold at 15% above what you can get it for just about anyplace else.

-Dave

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Quote from: garlonicon on October 26, 2024, 03:40:04 PM

Also, if nothing will be fixed, then ASIC miners will mine a single block per difficulty adjustment, and then, you will have 99% blocks, mined by CPUs.

With one block per 20 minutes, that means the difficulty will drop by 50% and ASIC miners will mine twice as much again. To reach 1 block per 10 minutes, shouldn't an equilibrium between difficult blocks and easy blocks be reached?

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So, blocking CPU miners is the only rational action.

Why not just get rid of it? Drop the difficulty by 80% after 20 minutes, instead of dropping to 1. If that's not enough, drop it 80% again 20 minutes later, and keep repeating that. Within a 2 hour window, that's not enough to make CPU mining viable, but it's enough to keep testnet going in case a large ASIC miner stops after making it very difficult.

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And, I guess if testnet4 coins are traded, then we should switch into testnet5 anyway.

Then testnet5 will be traded. The only way I can think of to discourage speculation on a price increase is by announcing the replacement early enough. If each testnet lives 6 months, there's not much to speculate.

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Can we call this a 99.9999% attack on CPU-miners?

Mining test coins on a CPU is the actual attack. Blocking them will just bring things back to normal.

Also, if nothing will be fixed, then ASIC miners will mine a single block per difficulty adjustment, and then, you will have 99% blocks, mined by CPUs. So, blocking CPU miners is the only rational action. And, I guess if testnet4 coins are traded, then we should switch into testnet5 anyway.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 26, 2024, 12:00:59 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on October 26, 2024, 11:50:44 AM

That's just a matter of twisting the narrative: they loved the halving block, so why not start their own testnet Ordinal BS from the same hash as the halving block?

What would it matter if nobody paid attention? They're attention seekers. They don't care to test or learn. They just want to throw it on your face, so you can be the next fool.

All true. But their victims aren't experienced Bitcoin users. If they'd know what they're doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

Quote from: vjudeu on October 26, 2024, 12:19:06 PM

By the way: when testnet4 ASIC miners will start reorging CPU-mined blocks, it will have the same effect.

Can we call this a 99.9999% attack on CPU-miners?

vjudeu

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How difficult would it be to set up custom testnets?

Let's see:

Code:

./bitcoin-qt -signet -signetchallenge=007551
./bitcoin-qt -signet -signetchallenge=517551
./bitcoin-qt -signet -signetchallenge=527551
./bitcoin-qt -signet -signetchallenge=537551
...
./bitcoin-qt -signet -signetchallenge=04ffffffff7551

If you create something around 2^32 signets, then I guess some of them will collide with the original one. Also, just by picking " OP_DROP OP_TRUE" as a signet challenge, you can easily start new signets, and practically never run out of them.

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It does not allow you to test things across long periods of time.

If you have a network, which is persistent, then those coins are traded. So, they should quickly disappear, to not get any value on any exchange.

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It rather sounds like a complicated way to achieve a temporary regtest network.

In the code, it is a single boolean value, which decides, if difficulty drop after 20 minutes is allowed or not. In case of mainnet, it is simply set to false, but you can change it. By the way: when testnet4 ASIC miners will start reorging CPU-mined blocks, it will have the same effect. And then, if you would be unable to CPU-mine any blocks, then mining on testnet4 or mainnet would be the same, from the perspective of a CPU miner.

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However, the regtest starts sounding like the most appropriate way to resolve this problem.

Regtest is too bloated, with the chain speed of six blocks per second. It simply means, that you can produce up to 24 MB/s, and everyone would be forced to handle such traffic.

Topic: Requesting Testnet4 tBTC - page 3. (Read 2542 times)