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Topic: Researcher Claims to Crack RSA-2048 With Quantum Computer - page 2. (Read 1313 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469

Not sure of the usefulness of hydrogen bombs. I guess they could be good / useful against an asteroid .

yeah probably. i think elon musk has this idea to explode h-bombs in the mars atmosphere to "warm up" the planet. thing is, that would be expensive and i doubt it would work. but he's kind of full of strange ideas...

h-bombs only real use is as a deterrent hopefully we dont ever have to use them on some poor country like we did with the atomic bombs.  Sad
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
But we know for a fact that it is exceedingly difficult to get any useful power out of nuclear fusion.
not exactly. hydrogen bombs were invented a long time ago and they use fusion. if you're talking about controlled fusion then yeah it's been a long and arduous road they've been working on it for decades. you have to admire that type of dedication from scientists all over the world. and i think they'll get there eventually but what i don't think is that it will make peoples' electric bills go down. they'll still charge them the same which pretty much negates the benefits of fusion power for consumers. no one is going to just give away free energy or even close. they're going to corner the market and charge as much as they possibly can. kind of like nuclear power plants do...

but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong that it won't lower peoples' power bills. did solar power do that? probably not!

Not sure of the usefulness of hydrogen bombs. I guess they could be good / useful against an asteroid .
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469
But we know for a fact that it is exceedingly difficult to get any useful power out of nuclear fusion.
not exactly. hydrogen bombs were invented a long time ago and they use fusion. if you're talking about controlled fusion then yeah it's been a long and arduous road they've been working on it for decades. you have to admire that type of dedication from scientists all over the world. and i think they'll get there eventually but what i don't think is that it will make peoples' electric bills go down. they'll still charge them the same which pretty much negates the benefits of fusion power for consumers. no one is going to just give away free energy or even close. they're going to corner the market and charge as much as they possibly can. kind of like nuclear power plants do...

but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong that it won't lower peoples' power bills. did solar power do that? probably not!
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469
larry_vw_1955-Please accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord, Savior, and Saviour. You are completely misrepresenting what I am trying to communicate because you have been completely consumed by your own hatred and anger. I do not want to communicate with you.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

i thought you had me on ignore.  Undecided

Quote from: digaran

They have already heated hydrogen atoms near the temperature of sun's core with the most powerful lasers in the world.
exactly. no superconductors needed as far as I know. Joseph said the only way  to do it was using superconductors cooled down to 4k wrong. Anyhow...

Quote
Practically humanity has achieved fusion capability, but it's too small to generate electricity.

https://www.energy.gov/science/articles/department-energy-announces-45-million-inertial-fusion-energy-ife
In the last two years, the U.S. ICF program supported by the National Nuclear Security Administration has produced two significant scientific results. In August 2021, a burning plasma was achieved on NIF with a yield of 1.3 megajoules (MJ). Then, in December 2022, NIF announced a breakthrough result where scientific breakeven (target gain>1) was achieved. More energy from the fusion reactions was produced (3.15 megajoules) than the laser energy that created the burning plasma (2.05 megajoules).


A net gain of 1.1 megajoules is not "too small to generate electricity" is it? But I'm not sure if that's the complete picture. Maybe the laser energy is only part of the total energy input but if that was the case they should have quoted that too...
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
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They have already heated hydrogen atoms near the temperature of sun's core with the most powerful lasers in the world. Practically humanity has achieved fusion capability, but it's too small to generate electricity.

It's the same with quantum computers, we managed to build them, but they are too weak to be used for big calculations.
So, no need to wait billions of years, just a few decades.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469
It is a royal shame that reversible computation is getting nothing but hatred when there are other ideas such as power from nuclear fusion and quantum computation that people tend to gobble up uncritically. In case you did not know this, in order to get power from nuclear fusion, one has to create and sustain conditions for years that are more severe than the center of the sun (the sun takes 10 billion years to consume all of its fuel). Oh. And the only way that we have figured out how to do this is to use superconductors that must be cooled to 4K which are right next to the center of the sun.
Not exactly. I know what you're talking about though - it's Magnetic Confinement Fusion. There is also another type. Inertial Confinement Fusion. Now, both of those are very big projects and have their own pros and cons but I have to ask you, if reversible computation is so easy why would it be harder than making a fusion reactor because we have those already. prototypes. where's your prototype reversible computer?  

legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 1191
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/blogs/researcher-claims-to-crack-rsa-2048-quantum-computer-p-3536
As Ed Gerck Readies Research Paper, Security Experts Say They Want to See Proof

 We all knew this day was coming sooner or later but I guess we didn't realize it would be done without shors algorithm  Shocked
 Bitcoin should still be good since it doesn't require factoring large numbers

I really doubt something like that is possible using any modern hardware. Let's wait and see how this is going to unfold. I'm pretty sure he's a fake though and he won't be able to prove he cracked RSA2048 and crack the keys provided by the security experts.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2354
The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators - ENG>SPA
The problem with the credibility of the claim discussed here is that not everyone has the technical background you guys have. This specific board of this specific forum (to which I do not belong) is the exception, not the norm, and most of the people interested in Bitcoin nowadays don't have a clue on cryptography or quantum computing.

What I mean is that some communication media publishes that this guy may have found the way to crack a very secure cryptosystem, and most people simply stay with the idea that "hey! Bitcoin is not safe anymore, price will fall to zero...".

I don't know what the goal of Gerck is, but if this is a tactic to draw attention, the potential damage it can cause is not worth it. Nothing comparable with CSW's melodrama, if the rumor spreads.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469

-Invertibility and reversibility are not exactly the same thing. Reversibility means that the optimal algorithm for computing such a function is an algorithm where there is no computational complexity overhead that results from using a reversible computer rather than an irreversible computer.
that's what reversibility means to you maybe. because you want everything to fit into a reversible computer!

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There are many functions that are invertible but which I would not want to compute on a reversible computer.
then maybe your reversible computer is not really useful in the real world?

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I can give of many examples of invertible functions that are not reversibility friendly.

one or two examples would have sufficed. you really went over the top with examples.  Shocked and it's completely off topic to the discussion of quantum computers. you really hijacked the thread even though you have your own thread on reversible computing too. talk about hogging up resources...

Quote
I remember that someone asked for the energy efficiency of biological processes. And the energy efficiency of transcription of DNA into RNA is lower than Landauers limit.
and yet no one has invented a general computing device out of it so it's just a theoretical curiosity at most. probably always will be.

member
Activity: 691
Merit: 51
I have to remind all of you that NIST has butchered cryptographic functions such as SHA-256 and AES by standardizing low quality irreversible cryptographic functions rather than the reversible ones (or partially reversible in the case of SHA-256). I have to give NIST a grade of F- for this egregious oversight.

Correct me if I am wrong, but AES, being a symmetric encryption function, is reversible by design.
-Invertibility and reversibility are not exactly the same thing. Reversibility means that the optimal algorithm for computing such a function is an algorithm where there is no computational complexity overhead that results from using a reversible computer rather than an irreversible computer. There are many functions that are invertible but which I would not want to compute on a reversible computer. I can give of many examples of invertible functions that are not reversibility friendly.

Example 1: Consider the operation x->Ax where A is an invertible matrix on a finite field. This operation is invertible, but it is much easier to compute the original function than its inverse since the inverse may be way more complicated than the original function. SHA-256 uses invertible matrices where the inverse is much more complicated than the original function. This means that SHA-256 is not reversibility friendly.

Example 2: Let f be a function where f(a) is always an invertible matrix over a finite field. Then the operation (a,x)->(a,f(a)x) is always invertible, but the inverse operation
(a,x)->(a,f(a)^(-1)x) may be much harder to compute than the original function. The problem of finding an inverse of an n by n matrix takes O(n^3) steps using Gauss-Jordan elimination. There are some faster algorithms for matrix inversion such as the Strassen algorithm, but there are no O(n^2.001) algorithms for matrix inversion that we know about.

Example 3: Let q be an integer. Let aa*z. This operation is invertible, but the inverse may be more complicated than the original function. For example, if q=2^32 and a=3, then the operation z->a*z is much easier to compute than its inverse.

Example 4: If f is an arbitrary function, then the mapping (x,y)->(x,y XOR f(x)) is invertible, but this function is not reversibility friendly. For example, when transforming x to f(x) on a reversible computer, one typically produces garbage information G(x). On a reversible computer, one will need to do the following to compute our function:
(x,y)->(G(x),f(x),y)->(G(x),f(x),y XOR f(x))->(x,y XOR f(x)). This construction is used in Feistel ciphers in cryptography. This means that while Feistel ciphers are useful for cryptography, they are not reversibility friendly.

Example 5: One way permutations are permutations f where x->f(x) can be computed in a reasonable amount of time but where the inversion f(x)->x has no known polynomial time algorithm. This means that the inversion f(x)->x cannot be computed in practice. This kind of function is not reversibility friendly.

Example 6: In the mix-columns step in AES, to encrypt, we perform the transformation f(x)->a(x)f(x) mod x^4+1 where f(x) is a degree 3 polynomial over the field with 256 elements and a(x) is a fixed polynomial for AES. Here, the developers of the AES chose a(x) so that the coefficients of a(x) and a(x)^(-1) are both simple. This means that f(x)->a(x)f(x) mod x^4+1 and f(x)->a(x)^(-1)f(x) mod x^4+1 are both relatively easy to compute. The problem is that we do not simply compute f(x)->a(x)^(-1)f(x) mod x^4+1 by running f(x)->a(x)f(x) mod x^4+1 in reverse. This means that a reversible computer must have some computational complexity overhead when performing the MixColumns step of AES encryption.

I remember that someone asked for the energy efficiency of biological processes. And the energy efficiency of transcription of DNA into RNA is lower than Landauers limit. Here is an excerpt from Charles Bennett's 1989 paper on time/space tradeoffs in reversible computation "However, a few thermodynamically efficient data processing systems do exist, notably genetic enzymes such as RNA polymerase, which, under appropriate reactant concentrations, can transcribe information from DNA to RNA at a thermodynamic cost considerably less than kT per step."

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469


Correct me if I am wrong, but AES, being a symmetric encryption function, is reversible by design.
that's correct. it is a symmetric key cipher. so the encryption and decryption keys are the same it's reversible. no information is lost in the encryption process. that's my understanding anyway. Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
I have to remind all of you that NIST has butchered cryptographic functions such as SHA-256 and AES by standardizing low quality irreversible cryptographic functions rather than the reversible ones (or partially reversible in the case of SHA-256). I have to give NIST a grade of F- for this egregious oversight.

Correct me if I am wrong, but AES, being a symmetric encryption function, is reversible by design.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469
larry_vw_1955-I cannot respond to the content of your post right now because I am ignoring you. If you want me to respond to the content of your post, you will need to get someone to quote you. In the meantime, you really need to take a good hard look at yourself and try to become a better person. But you won't because you love being the scum that you are.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

very well, i see you've migrated your extensive knowledge base over to another more appropriately titled thread having to do with your subject expertise. i hope we can become better friends in the future.
hero member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 566

The Scientist who has made this claim is not willing to prove it publicly, so there is very little chance that his claim will get acceptance.

Quote
"Quantum computing has become a reality. We broke the RSA-2048 key," Ed Gerck - Scientist making the claim.

"Breaking RSA is usually attempted by using Shor's algorithm in a quantum computer but there are no quantum computers in existence that can produce enough gates to implement Shor's algorithm that would break 2048 keys," Alan Woodward, a professor of computer science at England's University of Surrey

https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/blogs/researcher-claims-to-crack-rsa-2048-quantum-computer-p-3536

Quote
Ek Gerck said all his "QC computations were done in a commercial cellphone, or a commercial Linux desktop," at a capital cost of less than $1,000. "No cryogenics or special materials were used."

https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/blogs/researcher-claims-to-crack-rsa-2048-quantum-computer-p-3536

Breaking RSA-2048 needs a Quantum computer with 4,000 Qubits and 100 million gates and is expected to arrive in next 20 to 30 years. The Scientist has claimed that he not only has broken the RSA but also no special computing devices are used. This makes the claim even more suspicious.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 469
I have to remind all of you that NIST has butchered cryptographic functions such as SHA-256 and AES by standardizing low quality irreversible cryptographic functions rather than the reversible ones (or partially reversible in the case of SHA-256). I have to give NIST a grade of F- for this egregious oversight.
imagine that. a Ph.D that comes onto a bitcoin forum criticizing the people that invented SHA-256 and AES. And seems to not realize that bitcoin would not exist in its current form without SHA-256, if at all.


And if you have any evidence, post it here in this thread for all to see.
-You are an extraordinarily arrogant chlurmcklet. Go away.

i didn't make that demand of you. someone else did but you misattributed it to me. here take a look:




Do you know the power usage of these biological processes? I don't have journal access so I can't read that paper.

And if you have any evidence, post it here in this thread for all to see.

but maybe you SHOULD post any evidence you have.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 447
Shor's algorithm with noiseless qubits and gates works in theory.
Shor's algorithm with noisy qubits and gates does not work in theory. It needs exponentially small noise.
Both in theory.
That's it.
I thought that this is what error correction fixes-- with a huge but only polynomial blow up.
If I understand it correctly, the error correction could reduce noise only in linear fashion - QC are analog machines - ten times more resources would reduce error only tenfold at most. For Shor's to work this is not enough at all - it needs exponentially smaller noise.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1993
A Bitcoiner chooses. A slave obeys.
He's really bought his own press, this guy. Roll Eyes

I claim total bullshit. All we are seeing is another "ground breaking discovery" with no proof and the guy behind it is pushing this as hard as he can. It's only a matter of time until he tries to sell something.

I consider my own opinion close to Alan Woodwards.
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Alan Woodward, a professor of computer science at England's University of Surrey: "I'll believe they have done this when people can send them RSA modulus to factor and they send back two primes. Until I see that, I'm just confused and not convinced they've done what they claim in the headlines."
source: https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/blogs/researcher-claims-to-crack-rsa-2048-quantum-computer-p-3536


Edit: People on the Linkedin post claim he sends malware when asked for the full paper.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 3537
Nec Recisa Recedit
...molecular dynamics...

it is one of the most fascinating sectors of the pharmaceutical industry. I had the pleasure of working practically at the beginning, studying "conformational analysis of small molecules" Smiley
it's really expensive right now since you need "a lot of GPU". Moreover it requires a lot of time for simulations (and maybe you are just evaluating few nanoseconds ...)

Probably OT, among other things these arguments have pushed some to "fantasize" further by hypothesizing that technically even our entire universe could simply be a simulation Wink below a couple of reference (one in Italian language).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
https://www.wired.it/article/matrix-universo-simulazione-nuova-teoria-fisica-infodinamica/
member
Activity: 691
Merit: 51
Did you cite the right paper? There is nothing about doing computation at that energy level or a rate of 100mhz, the whole paper insteads seem to be about how one can more effectively simulate mechanical computational devices on current hardware.

Here is the other (more main paper) https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.03534.pdf. No. This is not about current devices because we currently do not have those energy efficient reversible computers. We are instead looking to directions to innovate.


But practically, how would reversible computing work? To avoid burning energy on erasing data, you'd have to keep the result of every operation. How would caching work, a technology that is vital for keeping our computers fast and entirely based on erasing data when it needs space for new data?
Trick 0: When using reversible computation, one should use partial reversibility instead of complete reversibility. Landauer's limit is not a lot of energy, so to get the most out of reversible computation, one needs to find the sweet spot between irreversibility and reversibility.

Trick 1: Suppose that one would like to compute a function f on the input a. Then using a reversible computer, by storing all of the bits generated in the computation, after the computation, one would obtain f(a) along with G(a) which is the garbage information that we generate. In other words, our computation performs the transformation
a->(f(a),G(a)). Now, we would like to get rid of the garbage information G(a). To do this, we would first copy our desired output f(a) to obtain a->(f(a),G(a),f(a)). We would then run our computation a->(f(a),G(a)) in reverse to transform (f(a),G(a)) back into a. When we put everything together, we have computed the mapping
a->(a,f(a)) reversibly. The function a->(a,f(a)) is injective and it is a restriction of the bijection (a,b)->(a,f(a) XOR b) which can also be performed on a reversible computer quite easily.

Trick 2: Suppose that f,g are inverse functions. Then as long as we are able to reversibly transform a to (a,f(a)) and b to (b,g(b)), we may also reversibly transform a to f(a) without producing any garbage information. In particular, we perform the following transformations a->(a,f(a))=(g(f(a)),f(a))->f(a).

Trick 3: One can iterate Trick 1 by using Bennett's pebble game (perhaps generalized to partial reversible computation and digraphs) in order to compute with a manageable computational complexity theoretic overhead.

Trick 4: One can also design functions including encryption and hashing functions for (partial) reversibility.

I have to remind all of you that NIST has butchered cryptographic functions such as SHA-256 and AES by standardizing low quality irreversible cryptographic functions rather than the reversible ones (or partially reversible in the case of SHA-256). I have to give NIST a grade of F- for this egregious oversight.

What would your computer do once you've streamed a full movie online, and have generated terabytes of raw screen data? Does pixels on the screen not "count" in your energy budgets, since they are outside the CPU? They are still erased dozens of times per second, millions of them.
-It is called partial reversibility. We do not have to immediately use reversibility everywhere in order for reversibility to be applicable. Besides, the lowest frequency of visible light has an energy of about 75 kT per photon, so if your device is emitting photons, it is losing more than Landauer's limit of energy per photon.




And if you have any evidence, post it here in this thread for all to see.
-You are an extraordinarily arrogant chlurmcklet. Go away.


yeah he doesn't know how to answer a question like that. he just believes... but i'll give it a shot. one of the issues it seems to me is the one you bring up that it would increase the complexity of the computer's hardware architecture to have to "keep the result of every operation". probably not cost effective. you don't get something for nothing but let's hear what Mr. Ph.D has to say. he's the authority.
-You are contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation because you are a very low quality specimen.

he won't know how to answer that question i'm pretty sure unless he just links you to some summary of some research paper that they did to avoid losing tenure...

since I'm the OP I wish i could put him onto a moderation in this thread to kind of tamper his enthusiasm for "reversible computing". but i guess we don't have that feature.  Grin
-You have that nasty attitude because you hate science and you hate research. You are contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation. And unlike a good steak, the meat on your bones has been completely wasted. How sad! And partial reversibility is a thing too. Please learn how to read what I have been telling you. But you can't do that because you hate science. I have much more respect for flat-Earthers than I do for specimens like you. Since you are so pathetic, I am pressing the ignore button. I will not respond to your bullshit anymore unless someone quotes you. I am also ignoring digiran because that entity is also a chlurmck who is not worth talking to.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
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I don't want anyone to attack our doc here, he is a special case. But if anyone is interested to discuss reversible whatnot, please visit this topic and ignore my posts there https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62179276
I'm just allergic to any coin other than BTC, hence my hostile approach towards their blockchain and devs.

On topic, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, people usually fail to provide the evidence.
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