Topic: Resolved (Read 958 times)

In UK when a business does not perform well resulting loss, the management change the name and launch it saying under new management with a different name and it works to remove all past records. In online it's even easier to follow the same LOL

If anything owlgames can help to get the money of OP then this is what they can do assuming they have conducted a KYC from sandboxcasino. But for that I guess OP needs papers from legal agencies.

I wonder if the excuse of internal infastructure change is gonna be valid enough for owlgames to provide the "new" owner their platform? I also wonder if owlgames has the actual names of the operators of sandboxcasino if they were to be given a subpoena by a court of law so that users who were fucked over by the company could seek justice?

I have spent hours here reading, from the OP, down to the last comment, I've looked at all the evidence provided by the OP, and I've also read the counter-arguments/accusations from owlgames admin, indeed, I feel for the OP, this to me is not just the highest form of robbery/cheating, but also the highest form of intimidation from sandboxcasino.

On the argument of op getting owl.games involved in this, my comment is -
First, I love owl.games, they are my number one go-to casino each time I earn some extra cash and feel like spending some on gambling, but I am not gonna side them because of this, from all evidence op provided, it is clear that owl.games have some connections with sandboxcasino, though they are trying hard to disassociate themselves from sandbox casino so as not to allow the matter spill over to their side thereby doing damage to their reputation.

With the help of owl.games, OPs sandbox account has been re-activated, and according to him, he has submitted the requested documents for KYC verification, let's hope he gets his winnings and the matter resolved without one party being cheated on.

Mind the words you f**k. Why all these anger for? If you can not create a discussion because you are unsocial then leave the place.
The quoted posts was already defended by owlgames so stop bringing things that are not relevant anymore. Provide any help if you can or just get the hell out of here.

That's typically how a game provider works. They give the API for the platform and rest are handled by the casino itself.

About above other claims, I would like to ask how are your sure that it was owlgames (I might missed some leads).

I would also ask owlgames how far they can access of a casino who they provide their software. It should be limited only to provide information once a casino ask about a specific bet or bet transaction issue. Have in mind that a provider can also access customers information too including their browsers information, IP and such things.

You are getting it wrong. No one is defending Sandboxcasino but some of us really do not see Owlgames has anything to do here. OP is deliberately trying to connect owlgames again and again in the matter. As a result he is losing the merit of his accusation.

Clearly did not read the continuous conversation where owlgames explained how it was done. owlgames is providing the software and SandboxCasino are operating their own just like the software providers works in the casino business. In casino business there are game providers who develop games, there are sports engine provider who provids data for sports and there are the casino itself who use the API/data and create their own database for customers and betting platform.

If you took the time to read through the thread, you'd see that the op provided sufficient proof that linked owl.games to sandboxcasino.io - And you will clearly see that both companies are owned by Cyber Galaxy B.V. That's enough to drag  owl.games into it. If they had nothing to hide they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of deleting evidence that tied all 3 companies together.

OP intentionally linked Owlgames to create the pressure on owlgames, that's what I understand from merit of the topic.
I always have this question though, we always blame a casino or sportsbook but what about the game providers? In the industry it became trend to blame the casino only and we consider the providers are always out of reach.

Owlgames is the provider of the game  and sandboxcasino is the operator as further as I understood and considering that there is no reason to accuse owlgames. As there is no reason to accuse the provider of a game or software if there happens any scam activity.

In this case there were no need to bring Owl.Games connected to the case. Owl.Games is just a provider like any other providers for the sportsbooks and casinos we have. OP intentionally wanted to drag Owl.Games into his case so that he can blackmail Owl.Games to recover his fund, I do not see any other intention for him other than this.

In scam accusations, we tend to take the side of a accuser easily but some people takes advantages of it. I think we should look at a case from both sides. OP may have a case but that's against SandBoxCasino.io.

SandBoxCasino uses Owl.games' casino software, but SandBoxCasino apparently operates on its own and works independently from Owl.games. Their admin has stated they have their own userbase and bankroll among other things.

I agree. It shouldn't happen, and if it did, that's not the way to provide support for your customers. You shouldn't lie to them and provide them with the wrong information that could get them in trouble.

What I understand is you (owlgames) are game provider/software provider for SandBoxCasino. Please confirm that I get the idea clear.

It's a sales man pitch but it's shady practice. What matter is what they have in TOS. If TOS allows VPN then SammyGambler has a case or SammyGambler needs to explicitly show where the admin said yes for the VPN and then again how would we verify it. It is going to be complected.

After having read a few TOS agreements recently, I can tall you the following thing. If a TOS agreement says one thing, but the site's representative says the opposite, the rules in the TOS prevail. We might not like it, it might be morally wrong and even scammy, but the TOS is what you agreed to and not someone's opinion about it on a forum.

In other words, the SandBoxCasino forum admin can say: sure, use VPN. We don't mind.
But if you do and the casino locks your account, they can sanction you based on the agreement you gave your consent to. Many sites even have clauses in TOS agreements where it says that in case of conflicting information between a TOS and any other public information, the TOS prevails.

The reason we did not post frequently here is we think the claim should be filed to SandBOX but not owl.games. We have been posting in OwlGames ANN thread regarding the case but we think it might be essential now to sync it here.


1. Relationship with SandBox ANN

Originally posted here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60758150


Regarding the license removal:

NO, we do not want to get into this mess. We have been pushing SandBOX for Sammy actually all along and they had acted on our request but we deem their previous action incompetence to fix the issue.

And since SandBOX is the only early client that has subleased our license, we confirmed with them that they are OK to operate without a license. Hence as the software provider we removed the license link and references to Cyber Galaxy B.V. in the doc.

Regarding the statement 'All payment with PaySafe are made via Cyber Galaxy B.V'.

Paysafe is a online payment company just like PayPal. This statement just means that if someone deposits via PaySafe it will be sent to Cyber Galaxy B.V. It's only relevant with fiat currency because in real world if you want to integrate a fiat currency payment processor you have to provide license to them.

OwlGames only provide 100% crypto currency iGaming solutions so we deem this clause irrelevant so it has been there forever. This does not mean that all your crypto payment will go to Cyber Galaxy B.V. but only means if we ever provide PaySafe (https://www.paysafe.com/), the account recipient will be Cyber Galaxy B.V. because it's legally required to be that.  


2. Sammy Case Progress

We have stepped in to push SandBOX for Sammy's case. We did not want to interfere with our sublessee's business but as Sammy kept intentionally posting false claims on us we felt that we must at least act as a coordinator to fix the case.

We have unblocked Sammy's account On Aug 16th, 2022 and sent him a KYC request, log shows that he did logged in and took a peek into the KYC system and did not submit anything. Sammy should fill the KYC within 2 weeks so we can help push SandBOX for his case.

Conversation can be found here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60763636


3. Payment sent to Sammy


We have finally confirmed with SandBOX that they admitted they sent Sammy 5300 USDt and another 5300 USDt together. SandBox has not paid Sammy since Jun 14th, 2022.


4. OwlGames Standing on SandBox Partnership


OwlGames has spent more than $500k on our buy-back and staking rewards of the $OWL token to help build our eco system. We do not want our reputation to be hurt like that. We have already informed SandBOX, in addition to the license removal we want to cancel the partnership. We are in discussion of a proper exit route for SandBOX.

For buyback history of $OWL token please refer to https://owldao.io/stats








We do urge that Sammy stop spamming on false claims regarding owl.games while we have already stepped out for him. The spamming and attacking also forms violation towards bicointalk rules. We have demanded mutual respect but it seems to be ignored once and again.  We would see Sammy in court if Sammy continues with his spamming and attacking on owl.games brand. (per conversation here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60761500)

If Sammy does not need any coordination of owl.games, he should not spam on owl.games anymore. Instead, he should directly file a complaint with the licensor regarding SandBox. Tho the claim should NOT be filed against owl.games, in this circumstance, we welcome him to file a complaint on us too.

Also this will be our last reply here in this thread. We think we have done our best to answer every question raised.

It's actually there if you bothered to read the whole post,


Go back to the first page if you want the archive link. It's posted by dkbit.

They still came up with all sorts of excuse about the VPN.
- Before: They said the post was old and that sammy should have read the terms.
- Now: They said they only allowed VPN usage for the promo.

You have told that they said using vpn is okay. In this case would you like to share the link/screenshot of that where they have said okay regarding using vpn. If they said it is okay then there is no reason to lock your fund and if still they lock then they are nothing but a scammer.

I get it, I'd be furious myself. All i'm saying is you still have to abide by forum rules. Anger and frustration are not your friends right now.

Please avoid double posting. I seen you make this exact post in the sandbox thread, all you're gonna end up doing is getting yourself banned for not following forum protocol. This topic has been read 350 times roughly, people are reading man. It's just a matter of putting the facts together and making a decision on whether we belive you or the casino. I'd say most are leaning towards you, but don't make yourself look bad in the meantime.

I'm tagging sandbox for now and would like to hear more opinions from the community about owl games. Not trying to harm their rep at this point.

Not really good it looks like there's manipulation going on to take down the pieces of evidence, Owl. games should give us more information they can ask for this information on SandboxCasino, Owl.games should be transparent if they want to still have a good reputation here in Bitcointalk if they discard the forum because according to them their recent campaign did not meet their expectation, let see if the flag and red tag will not reflect on their reputation in the gambling community.

It's interesting that you decided to take a break from forum and pause campaigns at the same time like SandBoxCasino, and we should believe that you are totally separated and not connected?

I would like to see where exactly is this ''evidence'' posted and published?
You should know that people with same VPN service and IP address can be much more than just alleged 13 accounts you reported... maybe you just don't know how VPN works.
Sandbox should provide some proof for their claims and address connection for this accounts.

In same time like SandboxCasino and for the same reason?!  

More editing, looks like I am going to switch my feedback to negative. 
Everoyone should avoid using this casinos.

Here we owl.games team will quote again our reply: (which we sent weeks ago)

Regarding the case of Sammy1:


Sammy firstly wrote to our email regarding his case with sandboxcasino on June 19th, 2022.

We replied on the 20th, June 2022 with the fact that:

1. SandboxCasino operates on their own using the owl.games casino software, they handle the bankroll, payment processing, players, on their own.
2. We have also sent an email on that day to SandBoxCasino asking them to justify the ban.

SandBoxCasino provided enough evidence that Sammy1 has multiple accounts (at least 13 accounts) with SandBoxCasino, which clearly violated the terms.

We replied to Sammy1 on June 21st, 2022 that SandboxCasino has banned him because of the multiple accounts violation.


Also we would love to clarify on our bitcointalk marketing strategy( which we think we do not have to):

We choose to pause it because we are more Web 3.0 orientated but not BTC focused. 99% of our users are NOT btc users. The campaign signature did not fulfil our initial expectations so we paused it.


OwlGames Team

The issue with the other accusation in the owlgames thread is that that user made the accusation, made 1 post, posted 0 proof, and then logged out never to be seen again so far. I have a hard time believing newbies who post like that.

Both the sandboxcasino rep and owlgames rep have not been online for 10-11 days. Maybe contact Sujonali their campaign manager and have him reach out to the casino to have them comment here.

Case looks shady as hell with them editing posts, but I'd like to hear their side before passing judgement.

I gave FrankBank, creator of SandboxCasino topic, a neutral warning feedback for now, but I have a feeling he is not going to come back any time soon.
If nothing changes next week and if he don't return to forum or explain their action, I will consider switching my feedback to negative.
Everyone should watch out and stay away froom SandboxCasino until this case is resolved, and same thing is for Owl.Games.

I'll straighten out my support for the OP.
I said "while" as far as there has been no form of defense from owl.games representatives, that doesn't mean I won't change sides. Not all reports have to be concluded as absolute fraud, need to be reviewed on a case by case basis.
For note, this forum is not a court that is always tried to be fair even though all members (DTs) have tried to be as objective as possible.

Damn it, I must have confused June for July.

@SammyGambler:

So called "Super Unlimited Proxies" are quite slow, and most don't even let you choose a location. Why not just use Proton VPN? It at least has a decent free version, and you can pay $10/month for faster servers [as a quite happy customer of their VPN].

The representative of Owlgame has not been online for over a week now but he posted an update on Sammy's case and I'm posting it here as a reference for those who are asking why Owlgames is not addressing this issue, but I'm sure we will hear more updates coming from Owlgames and Sandboxcasino in a few days hopefully not weeks.

The campaign was paused over a month ago it was a long 23 weeks of campaign it is from this campaign that I learned about their Owltoken and bought it on Pancakeswap and that's one good decision I made 30% profit they are still in contention on being the best token based casino so I hope they can fix this issue and kept their reputation, I'm following the outcome of this issue hoping it will be resolve in a fair manner.

In direct contradiction to your statement, OWL Games (who is owned by the same company) had a 6-month long signature campaign (link) but they have suspiciously paused it one week ago.

I can confirm they edited their post and they obviously wanted to hide something, but this was already archived with several services, one of them being ninjastic website.
To be fair they said VPN is only tolerated not fully accepted, but coming back and editing post proves they tried to mislead people:
https://ninjastic.space/post/59222459

This is unacceptable behavior from them, first asking every possible document you provided just to create some alleged scammer profile. 
Now they can sell this personal information and nobody could do anything about it, at very least they won't keep it safe that's for sure.

I don't like getting involved early and take sides until I hear both parties in this case, but it looks seriously bad behavior from SandBoxCasino.
If I don't hear any reasonable explanation and counter prof from them I will consider tagging them for this and I am calling other DT members to examine this as well.

It doesn't matter. This does not mean that the player did in fact agree to these terms and conditions upon registering on this website, and thus he is solely responsible for his loss, as it says in their terms and conditions.

By the way, there was yet another similar case with Stake, they were advertising they don't do KYC, and a player had his winnings frozen because they wanted him to do KYC: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stake-scammed-me-40000-avoid-at-all-cost-5390206 and he couldn't do that because he was playing from a prohibited jurisdiction.
This case did not get support from the forum.

You just can't fool anybody that all of the following messages supporting the player are not because he was a victim of a scam but because the scammer is not a sponsor on this forum, contrary to other websites that are scams but that are also sponsors.

Can you place the link of their statement on ICB and Casino.guru? It's hard browsing on mobile and I may have missed it. I only saw "using old posts on forums" and not a direct admission.

Another thing I would like to know is what happened to the separate investigation of the game provider? It seems they already abandoned that and just focused on the use of VPN and deposits from Coinbase. Maybe they already have the report which says nothing irregular on the part of the player.

It's hard to use this as defense since they already posted in their ANN that using VPN was tolerated. It's like saying it's okay to violate parts of their terms and conditions.

Aha, very interesting. Let me translate: The SandBoxCasino.io is not a sponsor scammer on this forum, so they are not allowed to scam.
Let me quote their terms and conditions:

OP while you played on their website, you've agreed to their terms and conditions. Haven't you read them?

On the other hand, the same case of 120,000 dollars with the scammer FortuneJack here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fortunejack-making-120000-dollars-disappear-from-my-account-5368279

Does not get support because FortuneJack is a scammer sponsoring the forum

OP in fact has a strong case based on the evidence provided and the links you provided one of the conversations that look interesting is this one
https://casino.guru/sandboxcasino-io--player-s-struggling-to-withdraw This conversation is very interesting to follow and many are waiting on Sandbox answer on the continuity of this allegation he only has SandBoxCasino.io has 1d 18h 47m 12s to reply after I posted this so we'll see if Sandbox will answer will we have a flag for Owl.games after this case becomes unresolved, that remains to be seen
 

The post archive before it was edited is here, https://ninjastic.space/post/59222459.
Retracted statement:

While I'm siding with Op's accusations based on his confession, the company seems to be looking into some of the OP's possible breaches that would allow to not pay out the winnings. the obligation to pay 5BTC I think is enough reason to drain their bankroll, especially if they collect it when the bitcoin price is @60k^.

You have provided all the transaction deposit, timeline events, and everything that will validate your accusations so your accusations right now are legit, I hope Owl.games will come down here and give their version of the story, it should be a good version OP has all the details of the accusation and even posted a video of his winnings in the slot, I can not say congratulation to OP for winning a big amount in a slot, because there's an allegation of cheating and he can not withdraw his earnings.

Are they just one company?  5.8 BTC is big, many casinos would shake heads before giving that up.

Taking the word ifrom forum threads and not on the Terms and Conditions page of the casino will really be harmful, we don't know who wrote in the thread if it's really them or a representative of the casino.

Resolved