Topic: Responsibility for double spend - page 2. (Read 3011 times)

Glad to see everything sorted out; though I can't say you're the happy one here.

All that said, the mystery still remains for the transaction that vanished from block chain.

If you took a piece of art, and that art increased in value, you should still return the original piece of art.

Conclusion :

In the end Unocoin asked me to to wire the CURRENT value of 0.0182 BTC to their bank account.
The transaction is done from my part. They will create a custom buy order of 0.0182 BTC to reflect this INR transfer on the account.

Moral of the story is:
When you open an account with all your personal details submitted to an exchange; when you get free money on what is supposedly YOUR wallet designated by that exchange; on a network which is marketed as an irreversible mode of payment; You are basically handing these exchanges a leash tied to your neck which they can pull whenever they want and make you pay for their mistakes.
Dashingriddler is gonna have one great story to read when he comes home from his business trip.

I thank everyone who has taken their time to respond here and have consoled me to believe that this was the right thing to do.
I especially thank Danny and turvarya for assuming me to be an account stealer, a person with a despicable character, a thief, dishonest, unethical, immoral and a worthless customer and what not lol  So go on Bitcoin exchanges!! Keep screwing over your customers.

On a serious note I do thank them for their valuable contribution towards resolving this issue and making me comply to do the right thing to do. Dont construed my sarcasm to be anything other than just entertaining words. I do not hold a grudge over this issue and will continue to support Unocoin.

Conclusion :

-snip-

Contact them or that lady on Skype and tell them to give a repayment address.

   ~~MZ~~

I cant send them the 0.0182, their site's minimum purchase is capped at $16

Then you shouldn't have taken the withdrawal of those bitcoins.


You should send the 0.0182 BTC.  That is what you took, that is what you owe them.

I am pretty sure, if you ask a court, it would decide, you have to pay 260 INR Bucks

0.0182 at current market value costs more than what it did 2 days ago.

And as seeing how I cant withdraw those 0.0182 BTC from BTCJAM, I'd have to resort to wiring them the money.

But is it ok for them to hold my current order as hostage and demand to fulfill the debated amount.

What should I pay them ?
0.0182 bitcoins ?
or
260 INR Bucks ?

But is it ok for them to hold my current order as hostage and demand to fulfill the debated amount?

Also the price per coin has risen then, what should I pay them ?

260 bucks worth of Bitcoins at current rate of their site ?

or the original 0.0182 ? Which would cost more as per current market value.

Yes ethically I am wrong.

But I am also a small businessman trying his luck on the new 'Bitcoin' world

I have learned to pay for my mistakes, why shouldnt someone else pay for their mistakes as well?

In my perspective, dishonesty and stealing would be when I would blatantly lie about something that I did and take someone else's property without their knowledge.

In Epay's case I was given a choice, whether to allow them to deduct from my current balance or let them allow me to keep those satoshi.

In Unocoin's case I received no such choices but rather ultimatums. These coins were a payment for a small cellphone recharge that I did. Before withdrawing the magical 0.0182 BTC (the second one) I did check the transaction hash that was provided to me multiple times. How is it my fault if the hash link leads me to a transaction not found page?

Arent we all just opportunist?

Why is it right for someone to literally pay for trusting someone or pay for their mistakes while someone else can simply walk away without repercussions ?

Once again, I have created this post to get feedback from the community based on ethical grounds and logical grounds.

I havent said that I wont pay them for the extra Bitcoins or I will pay them...

that is still undecided

and would only be solved upon Sathvik's input into this situation.

I see. You really just don't know better. Seeing your accounts age, I assumed, that you must have heard about double spend.
Sorry, for being that harsh.

My opinion on your story is, that you have to pay them back. like DH pointed, you are even legally obligated to do so in most countries.

Explain to them and work out a payment schedule. They will be likely more amenable to a resolution if you are willing to do your part.

As for my opinion you are not entitled to it and should return it back. The exchange also made a mistake so shouldn't expect immediate return. I think a late repayment after your investment returns is a fair solution.

I am just telling everyone what has been told to me by both the sites. I didnt learn about double spend before today, not even when epay sent me the payment twice. Regardless, I hope you are now clear about the 'stories'. Its just me who'd has to pay for someone else's mistake.

So, you were informed that it was not a "promotion" as you had assumed, meaning you now know that that money was not intended for you, and yet you kept it anyhow?  As far as I'm concerned, keeping money that was not intentionally given to you makes you a thief.  At a minimum it makes you a dishonorable person with a poor sense of morals and ethics.



So now twice you have refused to return money to someone that has informed you that they did not intentionally send to you?  Your ethics do not impress me.  I certainly would never want to do any business with anyone as dishonest and dishonorable as you.


You'd have to look at their terms of service to see if they have the right to do that.  In the U.S. a business can generally refuse to transaction with someone (as long as they are not discriminating based on race, gender, or religious belief).  If I were them, I wouldn't want to do any further business with someone of such low ethics and morals either.


Nobody is asking you to pay for someone else's mistake.  They are just asking you to pay back money that was never intended for you in the first place.


True.  When a business performs a risk analysis, they certainly do need to expect some "leakage" from thieves, and dishonest customers.  That doesn't make it "right", it just means that a business needs to charge enough fees from their honest customers to cover any potential loss they may experience from dishonest customers.  As such, all the other honest customers will be paying for this.


Because it's the right thing to do.


Yes.


Except that he knows that he didn't.  He admits that he didn't.  He knows that he received this money in error and has decided that he wants to keep it anyhow.


That is your fault.  You failed to properly keep track of what you had received, and chose to use money that was never intended for you.  If you had recognized that you had already withdrawn those bitcoins once, then you would have realized that the bitcoins remaining in your account didn't belong to you and could have contacted their support and asked them to fix it.  Instead you tried to take advantage and took coins that you knew you had already taken once.


Good.  If I were them, I wouldn't want a customer like you anyhow.