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Topic: Retail adoption hurts bitcoin price it doesn't help it and here's why (Read 5655 times)

hero member
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
This sounds more or less like selling your bitcoin and then repurchasing more bitcoin when you are ready to spend it. If you did not actually do this then you would need to pay for some kind of derivative that would essentially cause similar effects on the market.

Selling and repurchasing bitcoin without the transaction fees.
I think the setup described by zolace would likely have a greater effective fee then selling and then buying bitcoin on an exchange. The "fee" would likely be in the form of some kind of risk premium that you would need to pay to compensate the other side of the transaction for the risk they are taking. This is very similar to how various types of options on financial products work. 
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029
This is something that has been greatly debated time and time again. I believe in the grand scheme of things, adoption is the greatest way to grow bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
This sounds more or less like selling your bitcoin and then repurchasing more bitcoin when you are ready to spend it. If you did not actually do this then you would need to pay for some kind of derivative that would essentially cause similar effects on the market.

Selling and repurchasing bitcoin without the transaction fees.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?

Unless they can do things like pay interest on loans, buy can for their cars and food every night with bitcoin straight up, they'll have to sell bitcoin for fiat at some point. That's the problem right now.  Like their employees aren't taking thousands of bitcoins for salary I'll tell you that much.
I don't think this would be possible. This person would have massive exchange rate risks and would be vulnerable to loosing a lot of money. This would also very quickly get expensive for him because some business process tens of thousands of dollars in bitcoin sales per month.

isnt there a new service where you can lock the value of your bitcoins then im sure they can lock each transaction made then it wouldnt be a problem for them to hold the bitcoins and pay there employees as well.
This sounds more or less like selling your bitcoin and then repurchasing more bitcoin when you are ready to spend it. If you did not actually do this then you would need to pay for some kind of derivative that would essentially cause similar effects on the market.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Isn't there a new service where you can lock the value of your bitcoins?
Yes, Coinbase will do that. For a few minutes. Just long enough that shopping cart programs can accept Bitcoins without the selling merchant taking an exchange risk. You pay a small premium for that service.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Then the company will need some valuable backing to do so, but  also heard there was some kind of locking the value of bitcoin service coming.  some type of bitcoin locker, heard of it?
hero member
Activity: 2548
Merit: 950
fly or die
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?

Unless they can do things like pay interest on loans, buy can for their cars and food every night with bitcoin straight up, they'll have to sell bitcoin for fiat at some point. That's the problem right now.  Like their employees aren't taking thousands of bitcoins for salary I'll tell you that much.
I don't think this would be possible. This person would have massive exchange rate risks and would be vulnerable to loosing a lot of money. This would also very quickly get expensive for him because some business process tens of thousands of dollars in bitcoin sales per month.

isnt there a new service where you can lock the value of your bitcoins then im sure they can lock each transaction made then it wouldnt be a problem for them to hold the bitcoins and pay there employees as well.

Then the service is taking the risk and is probably expensive, while not really safe, if Bitcoin crashes really bad, you can bet the company would fold.

The only possibility is that investors in the company use it as a way to buy into Bitcoin over time, using spare millions of Euros they've got.
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 251
So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?
Yes, and yes.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?

Unless they can do things like pay interest on loans, buy can for their cars and food every night with bitcoin straight up, they'll have to sell bitcoin for fiat at some point. That's the problem right now.  Like their employees aren't taking thousands of bitcoins for salary I'll tell you that much.
I don't think this would be possible. This person would have massive exchange rate risks and would be vulnerable to loosing a lot of money. This would also very quickly get expensive for him because some business process tens of thousands of dollars in bitcoin sales per month.

isnt there a new service where you can lock the value of your bitcoins then im sure they can lock each transaction made then it wouldnt be a problem for them to hold the bitcoins and pay there employees as well.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?

Unless they can do things like pay interest on loans, buy can for their cars and food every night with bitcoin straight up, they'll have to sell bitcoin for fiat at some point. That's the problem right now.  Like their employees aren't taking thousands of bitcoins for salary I'll tell you that much.
I don't think this would be possible. This person would have massive exchange rate risks and would be vulnerable to loosing a lot of money. This would also very quickly get expensive for him because some business process tens of thousands of dollars in bitcoin sales per month.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
It would be nice if these companies would offer an option to pay employees a portion of there pay in BTC if they so chose. It wouldn't be much different then them offering a stock option or something like that. Granted it would be higher risk but I bet alot of people would take some coin a couple percent perhaps.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 503
I have alwas thought about this point
imagine amazon selling his diaries sells in bitcoin market
fatality
but there are many points of view
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?

Unless they can do things like pay interest on loans, buy can for their cars and food every night with bitcoin straight up, they'll have to sell bitcoin for fiat at some point. That's the problem right now.  Like their employees aren't taking thousands of bitcoins for salary I'll tell you that much.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
I really don't see where the OP is coming from.  How can a company advertising Bitcoin to their customers be bad.  And if people use Bitcoins to buy things from them they got what they wanted.  Thsi in my book is a full circle win win, Please weigh the pros and the cons and take into consideration of potential longterm holders coming in because of all this adoption.

If someone has posted something like this a year or so ago my mind would have melted down and then blown up.
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 251
It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

Besides, more and more businesses are accepting Bitcoin every day. Once merchants start realizing that they can not just accept Bitcoin payments (as a cost reduction and service to their customers), but also SPEND bitcoins to their suppliers, it will quickly increase their incentive of actually keeping the bitcoins, and no longer convert them to fiat at all.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
The rarer it is, while holding value, the greater it's value will become. It won't take long for the rareness of Bitcoin to become evident, especially when there are more people who want it.

Remember one important thing. The closer we approach the 21 million maximum, the slower new ones will be created - half as many this 4 years as the last 4 years. Yet, if there isn't something that drastically reduces the population on earth, there will always be way more people who want it than the number of bitcoins out there. And the number of people will be increasing.

As long as something doesn't destroy Bitcoin's ability to be used, it will continue to increase in value. Odds are that, as the number of people using it increases at a faster exponential rate than the number of bitcoins being created, the value will only rise.

The thing that will make the value of a bitcoin shoot beyond the moon, will be when the effect of all those $17 trillion dollars that were created in various Quantum Easing programs starts to be felt. This will happen as this fiat is gradually dumped on the market.

Lots of stuff to consider.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1014
Merit: 1001
When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.
I see two of the reasons why they dump:
First, when a retail sell its product, it need to replace a new one. How can the retail buy a new one? By bitcoin?
That's what happens when you add more holes into a bucket but limit the ways to get water in. If only buying Bitcoin was as easy as spending it.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
KryptKoin is one of the best!!!
When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

I see two of the reasons why they dump:
First, when a retail sell its product, it need to replace a new one. How can the retail buy a new one? By bitcoin?
Second, the bitcoin price fluctuates too much, and it's risky for them to keep it.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

You really think? i believe there are a lot of companies who are interested in Bitcoin and do want to be part of it, and thus keep their BTC in  some wallet and hope the price goes up even further! Even that Overstock boss is a big fan of BTC now and telling everyone how great it is!
I don't think that companies will necessarily keep bitcon as an investment (most companies do not tend to speculate on things unrelated to their business) but rather as a way to potentially pay their employees, suppliers and vendors in the future. Paying the above people this way would likely be cheaper then paying in fiat in many cases.
With the exception of banks and hedge funds, companies are really not allowed to speculate with their money. If for example you are a car company, then you will spend all your money on some aspect of building or selling the cars you make, not some unrelated investment.

I agree that some companies may eventually accumulate more bitcoin in order to pay their suppliers and others who they owe money on a regular basis. It would also be possible that they accumulate bitcoin in the same way they accumulate dollars or euros.
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