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Topic: Returning to gold standard? - page 2. (Read 3179 times)

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 08, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
#47
... Whilst nations like Germany may want it's gold repatriated, it would not be in their interests to acknowledge that the gold they have at the Fed Reserve is actually gone and/or doesn't exist and/or never did exist to begin with.

Which only goes to show how fallible the gold standard is. Remember kids, it's the goldsmith who invented fractional reserve banking Smiley
In the past, savers looking to keep their coins and valuables in safekeeping depositories deposited gold and silver at goldsmiths, receiving in exchange a note for their deposit (see Bank of Amsterdam). These notes gained acceptance as a medium of exchange for commercial transactions and thus became an early form of circulating paper money.[6] As the notes were used directly in trade, the goldsmiths observed that people would not usually redeem all their notes at the same time, and they saw the opportunity to invest their coin reserves in interest-bearing loans and bills.
full member
Activity: 129
Merit: 100
February 08, 2016, 04:14:59 PM
#46
Moving to a decentralized monetary system like Bitcoin would making moving to the gold standard irrelevant.  Gold is still relevant now as a safe haven against the dollar but if Bitcoin takes over gold will be a novelty.
I just can't believe this can happen.
Gold is still no 1.
Who have such power to do this? Bitcoin? No this is just software.
One catastrophic news tomorrow and bitcoin will be 1/2 of it price.

Gold don't has those problems..
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1016
February 08, 2016, 01:56:36 PM
#45

I sure everyone believes the US's claimed gold holdings too.

The last audit of Fort Knox was in 1953  and only 5% of the gold was permitted to be tested with no external experts allowed Wink

Germany's attempts to repatriate it's gold from US Federal Reserve Vaults are even funnier.


Germany: Hey Fed, you have over 1500 tonnes of our gold, and we want some back.
Fed Reserve: Erm yeah...ok...here is 5 tonnes.
Germany: Eh wot, but we asked for 350 tonnes to be delivered before 2017!?
Fed Reserve: Erm yeah....but security procedures.
Germany: Ok, then we want to come and view our gold in your vaults.
Fed Reserve: Ermm......uhmm...you can't! Security Procedures.
Germany: WTF!? This is outrageous. We will send delegated officials to physically observe Germany's gold at the Federal Reserve vaults in New York!
Fed Reserve: Right Ok. They can come. They can look in one of the vaults. But they can't go in, and they can't touch any of the gold bars because of security procedures
Germany: WTF!? This is ridiculous.
Fed Reserve: Ok...urmm...ehmmm.....if they want to physically inspect the gold, then we will bring them a couple of sample bars, because of erm......
Germany: Because of 'Security Procedures'?
Fed Reserve: Erm...yeah! That's right. Security Procedures! That's good, we like that!

etc
etc
etc.


Beyond a shadow of a doubt, there are a whole bunch of individuals, institutions, and even governments in this world, who are not holding the volume of gold that they either believe, or state that they are holding. The exception to this rule might be China, who are holding a shit ton more gold than they state they are holding. When or if this fraud unravels, is another matter entirely though. Whilst nations like Germany may want it's gold repatriated, it would not be in their interests to acknowledge that the gold they have at the Fed Reserve is actually gone and/or doesn't exist and/or never did exist to begin with.



Great post and for the first part i had quite a good laugh. Cheesy
Thanks for that.
Furthermore I doubt if the gold of Germany would still exist that it would ever get it back.
Reason why? Round about 50k american soldiers are deployed in Germany. The country is occupied.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
February 08, 2016, 06:24:15 AM
#44

I sure everyone believes the US's claimed gold holdings too.

The last audit of Fort Knox was in 1953  and only 5% of the gold was permitted to be tested with no external experts allowed Wink

Germany's attempts to repatriate it's gold from US Federal Reserve Vaults are even funnier.


Germany: Hey Fed, you have over 1500 tonnes of our gold, and we want some back.
Fed Reserve: Erm yeah...ok...here is 5 tonnes.
Germany: Eh wot, but we asked for 350 tonnes to be delivered before 2017!?
Fed Reserve: Erm yeah....but security procedures.
Germany: Ok, then we want to come and view our gold in your vaults.
Fed Reserve: Ermm......uhmm...you can't! Security Procedures.
Germany: WTF!? This is outrageous. We will send delegated officials to physically observe Germany's gold at the Federal Reserve vaults in New York!
Fed Reserve: Right Ok. They can come. They can look in one of the vaults. But they can't go in, and they can't touch any of the gold bars because of security procedures
Germany: WTF!? This is ridiculous.
Fed Reserve: Ok...urmm...ehmmm.....if they want to physically inspect the gold, then we will bring them a couple of sample bars, because of erm......
Germany: Because of 'Security Procedures'?
Fed Reserve: Erm...yeah! That's right. Security Procedures! That's good, we like that!

etc
etc
etc.


Beyond a shadow of a doubt, there are a whole bunch of individuals, institutions, and even governments in this world, who are not holding the volume of gold that they either believe, or state that they are holding. The exception to this rule might be China, who are holding a shit ton more gold than they state they are holding. When or if this fraud unravels, is another matter entirely though. Whilst nations like Germany may want it's gold repatriated, it would not be in their interests to acknowledge that the gold they have at the Fed Reserve is actually gone and/or doesn't exist and/or never did exist to begin with.

hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
February 08, 2016, 03:59:57 AM
#43
Gold cannot be manipulated as fiat money!
Fiat was created to get your gold as same as LTC was created to get yours BTCs Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
February 07, 2016, 04:34:46 PM
#42
The current fiat monetary system is highly unstable and will inevitably collapse. There is no doubt. So yes, either a gold or silver standard will be again adopted Grin
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1043
February 07, 2016, 04:30:57 PM
#41
Will this help now when we have economic disaster?

Gold is the only actual value that it can do a monetary reset.
thaht's why all countries want buy gold (or retrieve it from other country).

monetary reset is already plan.
Do you know any ranking of gold reserves by country?


The top 40 countries with the largest gold (2015) reserves are here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

Source: World Gold Council.

Note that some of those gold reserves may be double-counted or otherwise in error.  China, for example, is rumored to have much higher reserves (in secret) than is accounted for on this list.

I sure everyone believes the US's claimed gold holdings too.

The last audit of Fort Knox was in 1953  and only 5% of the gold was permitted to be tested with no external experts allowed Wink
legendary
Activity: 2996
Merit: 1903
February 07, 2016, 02:21:20 PM
#40
Will this help now when we have economic disaster?

Gold is the only actual value that it can do a monetary reset.
thaht's why all countries want buy gold (or retrieve it from other country).

monetary reset is already plan.
Do you know any ranking of gold reserves by country?


The top 40 countries with the largest gold (2015) reserves are here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

Source: World Gold Council.

Note that some of those gold reserves may be double-counted or otherwise in error.  China, for example, is rumored to have much higher reserves (in secret) than is accounted for on this list.
legendary
Activity: 1551
Merit: 1002
♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ < ♛♚&#
February 07, 2016, 12:36:59 PM
#39
Will this help now when we have economic disaster?

Gold is the only actual value that it can do a monetary reset.
thaht's why all countries want buy gold (or retrieve it from other country).

monetary reset is already plan.
Do you know any ranking of gold reserves by country?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
February 07, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
#38
Moving to a decentralized monetary system like Bitcoin would making moving to the gold standard irrelevant.  Gold is still relevant now as a safe haven against the dollar but if Bitcoin takes over gold will be a novelty.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
February 07, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
#37
...
Adopting Gold would mean adopting monetary discipline, so for that reason alone it will never happen. We would sooner burn in the sulphurous pits of hell than live frugally.
Gold standard would be an anachronism, like those quaint Amish people with horses and buggies


Nothing to do with frugality.

Because the current system has worked out so well lol.

I take it life didn't work out for you?
This, ofc, is all due to the fact that mankind abandoned the gold standard, nothing to do with you personally, correct?
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
February 07, 2016, 11:30:49 AM
#36
Dissatisfied with the state of humankind, feeling like civilization is a bit subpar?

I look on with glee to the day we are reduced to dust.

Heh, j/k.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
February 07, 2016, 10:02:45 AM
#35
Adopting Gold would mean adopting monetary discipline, so for that reason alone it will never happen. We would sooner burn in the sulphurous pits of hell than live frugally.
Gold standard would be an anachronism, like those quaint Amish people with horses and buggies


Nothing to do with frugality.

Why how noble of us that the only reason we refuse to adopt it is its outdatedness, and that its frugality, we would in fact be more than happy to impose. We surely are the greatest civilisation this earth has known.

Dissatisfied with the state of humankind, feeling like civilization is a bit subpar?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
February 07, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
#34
Will this help now when we have economic disaster?

Gold is the only actual value that it can do a monetary reset.
thaht's why all countries want buy gold (or retrieve it from other country).

monetary reset is already plan.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
February 07, 2016, 08:10:36 AM
#33

Because the current system has worked out so well lol.
And the gold standard has worked out so well, too.  

How much gold do you think there is in the ground and out of the ground.  If the population continues to rise, can the world sustain a gold standard?  I think not.

As long as modern technological civilisation persists, we shall never again run about with a purse full of gold sovs, or silver shillings, and be exchanging them amongst ourselves for goods n services.

With that said, I could see a situation where gold may be used as a form of backing for a global currency, into which different nations 'buy a stake in', depending on what level of commodites they can pledge, with gold being a very natural choice.

China are currently the worlds biggest producer of gold and also the world's biggest importer of gold. The worlds #2 economic power is accumulating gold for a reason.

Whilst current economic pressures are deflationary, and the markets may be allowed to deflate and crash for a period of time, ultimately the only way that governments will be able to deal with their soveriegn debt and allow the system to keep functioning is to have great big devaluation event, whereby the the market is flooded with newly created currency (or the newly created currency that has already been created is unleashed from the dams of financial institutions balance sheets), which provides the liquidity for debt obligations to be met and for the system to keep on operating, albeit with a massive loss of value or purchasing power for those holding Fiat and/or government debt. During that brief period where the economy isn't quite moving and investing in equities isn't giving returns, but whilst the market also loses confidence in the value of government debt and fiat currency, is when Capital will all flow into commodities, and especially so, flow into gold.



Severe swings in the DOW/GOLD ratio occur on roughly 35-40 year cycles. We had our last peak at the height of the NASDAQ bubble in 2000 at around 43. Since then it corrected heavily down to around 6 in 2011, and has bounced back currently to around 16, but looks as though it is ripe to resume its trend back down towards single digits, or even sub single digits in the near future.

Looking more closely at the last cycle, DOW/GOLD peaked in 1966 at 28. Then during the Nixon Shock, as Richard Nixon suspended the gold window and ultimately abolished the Bretton Woods USD-GOLD global currency system, in order that the US government could deficit spend in order to prevent another deflationary economic collapse occurring during a Republican presidents watch, the DOW/GOLD crashed down to just 3 in 1976, but rallied back up to 9 in 1977, before resuming its trend and bottoming out at 1 in 1980. When Gold was worth around $800 per Oz, and a share of the Dow cost also around $800.

Looking at the current state of the DOW/GOLD chart, it looks to me, that the technicals are setting up to have the exact same thing happen once again, all whilst we have fundamental stories of China accumulating the yellow shiny metal stuff, hands over fist (and under reporting what they have)....

...erm so yeah....keep a fucking eye on gold! Gold seems to be rallying and breaking out now, but I suspect that equities are about to rally, and gold could either retest it's bottom or even go on and put in a new final bottom. But when gold moves up, as history has demonstrated, it will move relatively fast.
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
February 07, 2016, 02:22:09 AM
#32
Adopting Gold would mean adopting monetary discipline, so for that reason alone it will never happen. We would sooner burn in the sulphurous pits of hell than live frugally.
Gold standard would be an anachronism, like those quaint Amish people with horses and buggies


Nothing to do with frugality.

Why how noble of us that the only reason we refuse to adopt it is its outdatedness, and that its frugality, we would in fact be more than happy to impose. We surely are the greatest civilisation this earth has known.
full member
Activity: 129
Merit: 100
February 07, 2016, 01:27:24 AM
#31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7GJb0kufQI

This video is best explanation..
legendary
Activity: 2996
Merit: 1903
February 07, 2016, 01:15:07 AM
#30
Maybe silver and gold coins can do better job than paper?
I also like this idea returning to gold coins..
All Precious metals can be involved.


Unless they made the value of gold coins very, very high, they would not circulate.  For example, were I running the monetary system of the USA, I might make a gold coin the size of the old (pre-1933) $10 gold piece (0.48 oz of actual gold, and some copper to harden the coin) worth, say, $1000 (vs. actual gold value of about $575 or so).

A silver coin the size of a US quarter I would have it worth some $15 perhaps.  Or make it a little smaller and stamp "$10" on it.

Even doing the above (fiat value WAY above metal value) might still not be enough to prevent hoarding of such coins ("Gresham's Law": bad money chases out the good).

So, IMO, best not to use gold as "money".  Silver might work better as a "Monetary Metal".
And how would this help anything?  We've already come off a precious metal standard and we've already been in a position where Gresham's Law has been violated.  It isn't going to happen.  We are moving so far away from a gold standard it's not even funny.  Look at the success of bitcoin, which is backed by nothing and need not be backed by anything.  We don't need money to be backed by metal.


The Pharmacist

Hey, I basically AGREE with you, a Gold Standard (or even Silver) is not that good, see second post (#25) of mine above.  I think that "letting gold go", merely allowing it to its best role of Store of Value is the way to go.

A Gold Standard (or PM coins) is a less satisfactory solution, but better than the one we have now.  I quite agree: "We don't need money to be backed by metal."  Indeed, Bitcoin is a great example, touché!

fofoa.blogspot.com has it all, but it is a HUGE amount of information and logical argument laying out the case of a huge revaluation of gold coming....
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
February 06, 2016, 06:00:39 PM
#29
But how to overcome all this?
Fiat is very inflations, gold coins can be manipulated with weight.
Fiat backed by gold is old fashion..
Bitcoin to take lead?
Maybe we all going to use co2 as payment model?
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 7011
Top Crypto Casino
February 06, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
#28
Maybe silver and gold coins can do better job than paper?
I also like this idea returning to gold coins..
All Precious metals can be involved.


Unless they made the value of gold coins very, very high, they would not circulate.  For example, were I running the monetary system of the USA, I might make a gold coin the size of the old (pre-1933) $10 gold piece (0.48 oz of actual gold, and some copper to harden the coin) worth, say, $1000 (vs. actual gold value of about $575 or so).

A silver coin the size of a US quarter I would have it worth some $15 perhaps.  Or make it a little smaller and stamp "$10" on it.

Even doing the above (fiat value WAY above metal value) might still not be enough to prevent hoarding of such coins ("Gresham's Law": bad money chases out the good).

So, IMO, best not to use gold as "money".  Silver might work better as a "Monetary Metal".
And how would this help anything?  We've already come off a precious metal standard and we've already been in a position where Gresham's Law has been violated.  It isn't going to happen.  We are moving so far away from a gold standard it's not even funny.  Look at the success of bitcoin, which is backed by nothing and need not be backed by anything.  We don't need money to be backed by metal.
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