Reverse Dice | Bitcointalksearch.org

noel57

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 26, 2015, 10:41:58 AM

Quote from: coinableS on July 26, 2015, 08:50:53 AM

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

Quote from: noel57 on July 26, 2015, 09:12:35 AM

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

I think someone have asked him that before and he said provably fair is the watch word of casinos and his own will not be an exceptions.

coinableS

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 26, 2015, 10:41:58 AM

Quote from: coinableS on July 26, 2015, 08:50:53 AM

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

Quote from: noel57 on July 26, 2015, 09:12:35 AM

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

I think this is going to have to go on the back burner for a while.

It would have to be AI in this type of design since the computer is acting as the gambler and the user is only acting as the bankroll and they get to choose the outcome of each roll. If it were 100% random, the user would just select 47 or some other middle number every single time so that the multiplier would always be low for the AI gambler.

If people think AI is not provably fair because it's not random, even though the computer chooses it's bet BEFORE the user and it's hashed to prove it hasn't been changed, then there's no point in launching. I'm not looking to get labeled as a scammer so if there's any question to the fairness of the current prototype I posted I will not move forward.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: coinableS on July 26, 2015, 08:50:53 AM

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

Can a provably fair implementation be worked into a computer that works more like AI?

I don't think so.

Quote from: noel57 on July 26, 2015, 09:12:35 AM

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

Only if it's provably fair.

noel57

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

OP please note with seriousness that a lot of people are waiting for the lunch of this great innovations.

neochiny

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Crypto.games

i think it will not click!!! why not make a unique game.. like the color games... i think it will be fun too... i did not yet saw games like that here in internet.

coinableS

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 26, 2015, 04:50:16 AM

Quote from: coinableS on July 25, 2015, 11:58:33 AM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 25, 2015, 11:40:56 AM

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

The design described by your OP would already be somewhat hard to implement with provable fairness, though it may still be possible. Having a kind of "AI" would negate this and make any kind of provable fairness impossible, as you are now leaving the choice of the computer 100% down to itself rather than from a provably fair source.

Provably fair means the bet is set in stone on the server side before the user places there's and it is not changed. Using a hash of the outcome upfront proves that the bet was not changed based on the users input. Especially in a design like this, it can not be 100% random.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: coinableS on July 25, 2015, 11:58:33 AM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 25, 2015, 11:40:56 AM

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

The design described by your OP would already be somewhat hard to implement with provable fairness, though it may still be possible. Having a kind of "AI" would negate this and make any kind of provable fairness impossible, as you are now leaving the choice of the computer 100% down to itself rather than from a provably fair source.

melisande

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Quote from: coinableS on July 25, 2015, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: melisande on July 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM

when will you launch the real thing.

Not sure yet, I still need to test some more things and figure out the best way to give the house an edge. Possibly thinking of having the computer martingale it's bets against the user every so often...

No problem then just keep this thread alive I will be checking it daily.

coinableS

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Quote from: melisande on July 25, 2015, 02:19:59 PM

when will you launch the real thing.

Not sure yet, I still need to test some more things and figure out the best way to give the house an edge. Possibly thinking of having the computer martingale it's bets against the user every so often...

melisande

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Quote from: coinableS on July 25, 2015, 10:57:52 AM

Quote from: melisande on July 25, 2015, 01:20:55 AM

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

This is only a prototype with play money, you cannot cash out.

OK, the prototype does not include a deposit option as well, so far it is a pretty nice design, so when will you launch the real thing.

coinableS

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on July 25, 2015, 11:40:56 AM

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

What if the computer is more AI and not making random bets but instead behave like a gambler would on any other site? If they see the roll keeps coming up between 45 & 55 then it will pick a target within that range so that it always wins.

DiamondCardz

legendary

Activity: 1134

Merit: 1118

Your concept in the OP would be heavily sided towards the user, i.e. +EV. No sane gambling site would implement this unfortunately.

Here's the thing: A rational user will never place their choice of dice roll, say, below 45 or above 55. Doing this immediately makes any bet made by the site that aims for below 45 or above 55 obsolete. Yes, bets by the computer of say above 30 will still occur. But this means that any bet made by the computer of below 45 or above 55 will always result in a loss. At this point you may say that, with the above/below modifier, it's still going to be a 50% chance of winning/losing. The thing with this, is that the computer is likely to make, due to it's completely random calculations, a large variety of bets, not just bets with 50/50 chances. I'm not going to code a simulation for this at this time, but at the end of the day something like this will probably end +EV for the user.

coinableS

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Activity: 1442

Merit: 1186

Quote from: melisande on July 25, 2015, 01:20:55 AM

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

This is only a prototype with play money, you cannot cash out.

melisande

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Activity: 434

Merit: 250

This is great, I have tried it and won severally and I hope it will be like that when a deposit is made for real game.
I do not see anywhere that my btc address is required, so how will the winnings be cash out?

coinableS

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Ok here's the working prototype you can test out. It uses play money so you don't have to deposit anything.

http://btcthreads.com/testreverse.php

melisande

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Quote from: coinableS on July 23, 2015, 07:26:30 PM

Quote from: melisande on July 23, 2015, 01:32:41 PM

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

I appreciate you taking interest in my projects. I have basic working prototype for reverse dice that I hammered out today.
I should have a version I'll post here on Saturday or Sunday so you can test it out.

Congratulations, I will like to try the reverse dice method just post the url link here tomorrow when done.

coinableS

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Quote from: melisande on July 23, 2015, 01:32:41 PM

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

I appreciate you taking interest in my projects. I have basic working prototype for reverse dice that I hammered out today.
I should have a version I'll post here on Saturday or Sunday so you can test it out.

melisande

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: coinableS on July 23, 2015, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: melisande on July 23, 2015, 01:06:28 AM

Quote from: bitbaby on July 18, 2015, 12:02:01 AM

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

Abandon is such a harsh word Wink

I have put it on hold for now, but have not abandoned the idea and yes I've been working on my faucet+dice instead. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11919027 Trying to decide which method of provably fair I'm going to use.

coinableS, I am sorry for my choice of word, I agreed it is rather too harsh but it would not have come from me if you had told us in this thread.
I am also interested in your second project and I am watching the two threads.

coinableS

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Quote from: melisande on July 23, 2015, 01:06:28 AM

Quote from: bitbaby on July 18, 2015, 12:02:01 AM

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

Abandon is such a harsh word Wink

I have put it on hold for now, but have not abandoned the idea and yes I've been working on my faucet+dice instead. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11919027 Trying to decide which method of provably fair I'm going to use.

melisande

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitbaby on July 18, 2015, 12:02:01 AM

I think it be best if you make a temporary game like this and put it up for testing and people can test and see how much they like it with play money, if they enjoy the game you can then make it for Bitcoin and put it on a domain, add graphics and features and launch it fully.

In my opinion it is like the OP have abandon this particular project, I saw his other thread Faucet+Dice it seems he prefer that.

Topic: Reverse Dice (Read 1734 times)