Ring Confidential Transactions or Soda Vending Machine? - page 2.

generalizethis

legendary

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: st0at on January 29, 2016, 01:06:49 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:53:54 AM

Quote from: st0at on January 29, 2016, 12:41:45 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:25:10 AM

People who have nosy wives will figure out anonymity. Tongue

They already have. That is why they don't tell their wives their secret BTC address(es). It logically follows that the entities that have a sufficient economic incentive for block chain mixing will also inspect the technology with a fine tooth comb. Again I don't care, because I only care what speculators will throw their lunch money at.

And as soon as divorce attorneys realize that they can inspect the Bitcoin blockchain with technologies already at hand and make correlations to mistresses, prostitutes and camgirls, that dog and pony show of anonymity will be at an end. We both placed a bet on which way this will turn, so either we are both proved correct, wrong or one of us is on the wrong side of it. It's not a big deal--though given your stance, I wonder why you even follow this debate?

That is when they try using Cryptonote and it fails (even once per 1000 spends) due to their fumbling of meta data, so these mere mortals give up and pay in gold, gifts such as jewelry, or cash (if it is still available). Business can spawn which pretend to sell computer software but really ship jewelry. "Oh honey, that was some software for my business". Humans are very ingenuous and prefer to use methods they understand because they can't trust what they don't understand.

Or they learn how to handle their meta data and using decentralized exchanges to launder money in which case they do not need Cryptonote.

Or something more robust to meta data arrives.

And yeah I don't care in terms of my speculative investing here. I care if I am considering a long-term investment, and so far nothing qualifies per my analysis but to each his own.

You're missing that Monero is building not just a currency, but a one stop shop of privacy solutions. The tokenization of assets is just what forms the network, and the more private this is, the better. Layering Bitcoin with ad hoc solutions is inefficient and will offer subpar performance in both network and privacy. IE. Icing won't hide that the cake is dry and moldy.

st0at

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:53:54 AM

Quote from: st0at on January 29, 2016, 12:41:45 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:25:10 AM

People who have nosy wives will figure out anonymity. Tongue

They already have. That is why they don't tell their wives their secret BTC address(es). It logically follows that the entities that have a sufficient economic incentive for block chain mixing will also inspect the technology with a fine tooth comb. Again I don't care, because I only care what speculators will throw their lunch money at.

And as soon as divorce attorneys realize that they can inspect the Bitcoin blockchain with technologies already at hand and make correlations to mistresses, prostitutes and camgirls, that dog and pony show of anonymity will be at an end. We both placed a bet on which way this will turn, so either we are both proved correct, wrong or one of us is on the wrong side of it. It's not a big deal--though given your stance, I wonder why you even follow this debate?

That is when they try using Cryptonote and it fails (even once per 1000 spends) due to their fumbling of meta data, so these mere mortals give up and pay in gold, gifts such as jewelry, or cash (if it is still available). Business can spawn which pretend to sell computer software but really ship jewelry. "Oh honey, that was some software for my business". Humans are very ingenuous and prefer to use methods they understand because they can't trust what they don't understand.

Or they learn how to handle their meta data and using decentralized exchanges to launder money in which case they do not need Cryptonote.

Or something more robust to meta data arrives.

And yeah I don't care in terms of my speculative investing here. I care if I am considering a long-term investment, and so far nothing qualifies per my analysis but to each his own.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: st0at on January 29, 2016, 12:41:45 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:25:10 AM

People who have nosy wives will figure out anonymity. Tongue

They already have. That is why they don't tell their wives their secret BTC address(es). It logically follows that the entities that have a sufficient economic incentive for block chain mixing will also inspect the technology with a fine tooth comb. Again I don't care, because I only care what speculators will throw their lunch money at.

And as soon as divorce attorneys realize that they can inspect the Bitcoin blockchain with technologies already at hand and make correlations to mistresses, prostitutes and camgirls, that dog and pony show of anonymity will be at an end. We both placed a bet on which way this will turn, so either we are both proved correct, wrong or one of us is on the wrong side of it. It's not a big deal--though given your stance, I wonder why you even follow this debate?

st0at

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:25:10 AM

People who have nosy wives will figure out anonymity. Tongue

They already have. That is why they don't tell their wives their secret BTC address(es). It logically follows that the entities that have a sufficient economic incentive for block chain mixing will also inspect the technology with a fine tooth comb. Again I don't care, because I only care what speculators will throw their lunch money at.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: st0at on January 29, 2016, 12:18:20 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:07:07 AM

My point (and you missed it) is that people, when they find out the use of a thing, don't need to understand it--they just need to know what it does, and if you would chose a soda machine over https or solid cryptography, while knowing what they do, then you would be a dumbass. Dash's cryptography is flawed, so comparisons to Microsoft are ridiculous.

So what you really said logically is that the only people who will buy anonymity are those who understand and trust how it works. Or speculators who are speculating on speculators.

That is why the market for privacy will be the serious users who have the resources and motivation to understand the technology.

Soda machines do not address that serious user target market. Does Cryptonote? Seems there is a loony tune over at Reddit who thinks not. As for myself, I am sticking with the more certain target market of lunch allowance speculators. The wise here seem to have also come to that same conclusion.

People who have nosy wives will figure out anonymity. Tongue

st0at

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: generalizethis on January 29, 2016, 12:07:07 AM

My point (and you missed it) is that people, when they find out the use of a thing, don't need to understand it--they just need to know what it does, and if you would chose a soda machine over https or solid cryptography, while knowing what they do, then you would be a dumbass. Dash's cryptography is flawed, so comparisons to Microsoft are ridiculous.

So what you really said logically is that the only people who will buy anonymity are those who understand and trust how it works. Or speculators who are speculating on speculators.

That is why the market for privacy will be the serious users who have the resources and motivation to understand the technology.

Soda machines do not address that serious user target market. Does Cryptonote? Seems there is a loony tune over at Reddit who thinks not. As for myself, I am sticking with the more certain target market of lunch allowance speculators. The wise here seem to have also come to that same conclusion.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: Snail2 on January 28, 2016, 07:34:17 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 28, 2016, 02:34:30 AM

Saying that people need to know about something (or understand it) in order to use it or want it is a pretty ridiculous statement and here are some examples why:

People must know about the existence of something, must know what is that thing, must know what's the purpose of that thing, and finally must have some basic understanding of that thing to be able to use it.

Quote

Would you rather have a soda machine or https?

Would you rather have a cabbage or a 4-d printer?

Would you rather have a paper plane or MS HoloLens?

It depends.
If I don't know WWW then I not even going to notice https, but most likely I'll use the soda machine.
If I don't know what is that big box and what's the purpose of it, I'll turn it to a fireplace to cook my cabbage.
Of course hololens! Cool sunglasses mate, a bit heavy tho'... Cheesy

.

Quote

And lets not skew what the question really is: would you rather have a non-private digital payment process (that already exist for credit cards) or an already more private process that has been augmented by confidential transactions?

Stop a random bloke on the street, show him both wallets and ask him which one he likes more.

Quote

Dash didn't invent soda machines that accept digital payments, they just managed to turn one into a billboard.

Yes they turned something to a billboard and illustrated that it's just working in any simple, everyday use case.
You see, Microsoft didn't invented the computer or the internet they just wrote some crappy pieces of software what made computers and internet easy to use for average Joe, they've also made a lot of noise around their stuff and they made a fortune. In the meantime DEC what actually invented computers, have made the finest OSes of that time and was around the development of the Internet, crapped out because of the lack of user friendly products and good marketing.

My point (and you missed it) is that people, when they find out the use of a thing, don't need to understand it--they just need to know what it does, and if you would chose a soda machine over https or solid cryptography, while knowing what they do, then you would be a dumbass. Dash's cryptography is flawed, so comparisons to Microsoft are ridiculous.

st0at

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: mathgal23 on January 28, 2016, 05:26:44 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on January 28, 2016, 02:44:05 AM

What is this thread about? It is really about the relative value of facts based upon scientific evidence vs marketing baloney. This applies equally to beverages as to crypto currencies

Unfortunately ~~there are many~~all crypto currency projects ~~that~~ do not have sufficient scientific evidence or peer review to back their claims. All~~Some~~ of these projects prefer to use marketing baloney to facilitate short term gains instead of focusing of building a sound technical foundation.

"To da moon or bust with my lunch allowance", is my motto.

By the way, user adoption won't be coming to any of these altcoins in any of the ways that are currently being contemplated. Not by soda machines, ATMs, anonymity features, nor airdrops. Synereo has an interesting idea but there are more questions than answers at least in my mind. But again, we are not here to answer these questions. We are here to speculate on lunch allowance speculators.

Snail2

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Quote from: stoat on January 28, 2016, 06:22:00 PM

My point originally was this vending machine idea is exactly the sort of thing the Dash team in my dream would have come up with. I currently own no Dash at alm but now that dream made such a heavy impression on my mind I'm thinking about getting into it. Are there any resources to get wallets (especially phone apps). And maybe a couple Dash to get started with?

I currently only own Ethereum but you cant buy shit with it yet. Can you use dash for anything in the UK?

Not really. I guess you can buy weed and such stuff with it but that's not used to be advertised on any soda machines

.

Snail2

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Quote from: generalizethis on January 28, 2016, 02:34:30 AM

Saying that people need to know about something (or understand it) in order to use it or want it is a pretty ridiculous statement and here are some examples why:

People must know about the existence of something, must know what is that thing, must know what's the purpose of that thing, and finally must have some basic understanding of that thing to be able to use it.

Quote

Would you rather have a soda machine or https?

Would you rather have a cabbage or a 4-d printer?

Would you rather have a paper plane or MS HoloLens?

It depends.
If I don't know WWW then I not even going to notice https, but most likely I'll use the soda machine.
If I don't know what is that big box and what's the purpose of it, I'll turn it to a fireplace to cook my cabbage.
Of course hololens! Cool sunglasses mate, a bit heavy tho'... Cheesy

.

Quote

And lets not skew what the question really is: would you rather have a non-private digital payment process (that already exist for credit cards) or an already more private process that has been augmented by confidential transactions?

Stop a random bloke on the street, show him both wallets and ask him which one he likes more.

Quote

Dash didn't invent soda machines that accept digital payments, they just managed to turn one into a billboard.

Yes they turned something to a billboard and illustrated that it's just working in any simple, everyday use case.
You see, Microsoft didn't invented the computer or the internet they just wrote some crappy pieces of software what made computers and internet easy to use for average Joe, they've also made a lot of noise around their stuff and they made a fortune. In the meantime DEC what actually invented computers, have made the finest OSes of that time and was around the development of the Internet, crapped out because of the lack of user friendly products and good marketing.

stoat

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 270

FREEDOM RESERVE

My point originally was this vending machine idea is exactly the sort of thing the Dash team in my dream would have come up with. I currently own no Dash at alm but now that dream made such a heavy impression on my mind I'm thinking about getting into it. Are there any resources to get wallets (especially phone apps). And maybe a couple Dash to get started with?

I currently only own Ethereum but you cant buy shit with it yet. Can you use dash for anything in the UK?

stoat

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 270

FREEDOM RESERVE

I had a weird dream that I was working at a cryptocurrency startup called Dash with even duffield. He was the boss and every weekend each memebr of the team (there was about 20 of us) got 70 dash to spend over the weekend. Our mission was to spend 70 dash at as many stores as possible.

I remember in my dream I quite enjoyed the team comeraderie. And that even duffield who looked nothing like in real life was a pretty cool boss.

And he showed us an innovative payment method using a mobile phone which as far as I can remember was really cool.

It was a dream obviously but I woke up. And I'm still trying to work out what he showed me that was so cool.

A weird dream granted, but interesting at the same time

I dreamed about Dash. It was weird.

Macrochip

sr. member

Activity: 465

Merit: 250

ITT:
Butthurt losers angrily ranting about DASH's success. LOL Grin

Btw: Where's that "massive dump after the Miami hype" you ding-dongs kept yapping about? DASH still strong above 4 USD. You mad? Tongue

mathgal23

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 102

Quote from: ArticMine on January 28, 2016, 02:44:05 AM

What is this thread about? It is really about the relative value of facts based upon scientific evidence vs marketing baloney. This applies equally to beverages as to crypto currencies

Unfortunately there are many crypto currency projects that do not have sufficient scientific evidence or peer review to back their claims. Some of these projects prefer to use marketing baloney to facilitate short term gains instead of focusing of building a sound technical foundation.

st0at

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

i would rather live in shelbyville than springfield

You do realize that the real name of AnnoyingMint who has been attacking your beloved Dash, is Shelby Moore. I discovered that by clicking the AnonyMint link in TPTB_need_war's signature line.

I've been doing some research on AnonyMint's posts, and he mentioned he is descended from Isaac Shelby, which Wikipedia cites Shelbyville, TN is named in honor of.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 28, 2016, 12:00:58 AM

Quote from: ArticMine on January 26, 2016, 06:53:19 PM

Soft drinks regardless of whether they are sweetened with sugar or artificial sweeteners cause all sorts of health problems including but not limited to obesity, diabetics, heart problems, cancers etc.

I voted for Ring Confidential Transactions. The health impact of this is to stimulate the brain while learning how they work, with all sorts of beneficial health results.

I would agree with the problems you mentioned about sugared soft drinks but I don't believe the evidence for what you claimed about artificially-sweetened soft drinks. I think those are way better than the sugared drinks and I think the cancer claims are pretty much hooey.

Edit: What is this thread really about?

There is a lot of evidence of the harmful effects of artificial sweeteners. Here are some articles.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/12/23/artificial-sweeteners-confuse-body.aspx
http://drhyman.com/blog/2010/06/19/artificial-sweeteners-could-be-sabotaging-your-diet/
http://authoritynutrition.com/artificial-sweeteners-and-weight-gain/

Of course those people who get their information from Coca Cola ads are not going to learn about the adverse vs beneficial health effects of artificially sweetened soft drinks any more than looking at a stripper in front of a soda machine will tell one if the technology behind Dash is sound or not.

What is this thread about? It is really about the relative value of facts based upon scientific evidence vs marketing baloney. This applies equally to beverages as to crypto currencies

Edit: Soft drinks was the most likely cause of Gulf War Syndrome among US veterans http://dorway.com/military-admits-gulf-war-illness-aspartame/ Aspartame breaks down in heat into toxic chemicals and the soft drinks were stored exposed to the hot desert sun in Saudi Arabia.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: Snail2 on January 27, 2016, 07:09:52 AM

Quote from: TechorMarketing on January 26, 2016, 10:50:04 PM

I am patiently waiting for arguments about how Dash N’ Drink soda machines will change the world. Has all the vending machine excitement from Miami died off already?

Outside this forum very few people have any clue what the heck is a Ring Confidential Transaction, however everybody knows what's a Soda Vending Machine

. This is what I used to tell you guys since ages; even if you have the best freakin' awesome technology on the Earth, it will have little value if only a handful people knows about it, (in addition only small part of that handful knows what they are talking about)

.

Saying that people need to know about something (or understand it) in order to use it or want it is a pretty ridiculous statement and here are some examples why:

Would you rather have a soda machine or https?

Would you rather have a cabbage or a 4-d printer?

Would you rather have a paper plane or MS HoloLens?

People don't need to understand a thing (or even know what it initially is) to want it more than something that's been around for decades--one youtube video can demonstrate enough of what it is and show the consumer what it does, the latter being the more important quality for most people.

And lets not skew what the question really is: would you rather have a non-private digital payment process (that already exist for credit cards) or an already more private process that has been augmented by confidential transactions?

Dash didn't invent soda machines that accept digital payments, they just managed to turn one into a billboard.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 28, 2016, 12:00:58 AM

What is this thread really about?

Praising the innovation of Ring CT, while mocking the soda-machine HYIP scam's bad crypto.

Shrikez

sr. member

Activity: 400

Merit: 263

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 28, 2016, 12:00:58 AM

Edit: What is this thread really about?

Another useless skirmish.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 7005

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: ArticMine on January 26, 2016, 06:53:19 PM

Soft drinks regardless of whether they are sweetened with sugar or artificial sweeteners cause all sorts of health problems including but not limited to obesity, diabetics, heart problems, cancers etc.

I voted for Ring Confidential Transactions. The health impact of this is to stimulate the brain while learning how they work, with all sorts of beneficial health results.

I would agree with the problems you mentioned about sugared soft drinks but I don't believe the evidence for what you claimed about artificially-sweetened soft drinks. I think those are way better than the sugared drinks and I think the cancer claims are pretty much hooey.

Edit: What is this thread really about?

Topic: Ring Confidential Transactions or Soda Vending Machine? - page 2. (Read 3592 times)