Topic: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com ! (Read 9207 times)

0.00001 = 0.001%  and that is pretty good. They are giving 1/100,000 of their total wealth away each and everyday.  In 3 years they will have given away, 1% of the total wealth only through this method (World Community Grid), and they need money for hiring , marketing and building the network too. By the way they are increasing the give away regularly. It's now 1,250,000 XRP each day.

That's number 1 mission.  Number 2 mission is to increase XRP valuation which is mostly done by doing a good job in number 1 mission.

Thank you for the clarification. That simplifies things a lot. I still have NFI whether that makes you a money transmitter though.

No, you are trading USD IOUs from one issuer to IOUs from another issuer - you do not issue your own.

I would recommend to consult a tax specialist + lawyer before dealing with BTC as well, an issue is that for example unlike cash BTC can be traced back indefinitely far. If someone who owned your coins before you claims they are stolen and you should pay them back then they have definite proof that you actually do have a part of their property in your posession. BTC are not fungible.

Regulatory issues in Ripple are probably much less/easier as you can refer for example to the EU directive 2009/110/EC (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/emoney/) instead of first having to explain who actually could be an "issuer" of the BTC that you own.

It is just an example.  It applies equally to trusting both Bitstamp and BTC-E for USD.  The issue is ordinary users inadvertently being caught by cross border financial control legislation.  


As a user.  It has been repeatedly said that funds will ripple through users' accounts if they link to two gateways in the same currency.  Accordingly is a user who trusts two gateways in the same currency a money transmitter?  Ripple is building the system - I hope they have thought about this.  


The issue here is that Ripple could get getting ordinary users into a world of hurt without the users having any idea.


Well I need to ask somewhere because I have spent hours reading Ripple information and I haven't found the answer yet. The point is that if I am issuing an IOU to Ripple China due to a transfer from Bitstamp rippling through me I don't know what that means for me under Chinese law.  


Technically speaking if you are dealing in US dollars then US law applies.  If you don't believe me take it up with FINCEN.  So that means I have to comply with US KYC and AML if I am a money transmitter.  The fact that many don't is irrelevant - we are trying to avoid ordinary users getting into regulatory trouble. 


Just a user.  I would strongly suggest that the Chinese government can do something about it.  Like putting the employees of Ripple China in prison for breaking Chinese law as a starter.  Look at "Stern Hu" on Wikipedia for a story about what they do to foreign company employees who piss them off.  


Yes but remember I am issuing IOUs for USD under the Ripple system as an ordinary user when a transaction ripples through me.



Look I get that (now) it just seems like there is an entire world of regulatory issues here that have not been explored or closed out. It is obviously impractical for users to consult lawyers before trusting a gateway so these issues need to be sorted out and clearly explained.  

* Ripple is fully open source since September 2013 (https://github.com/ripple)
* Ripple is fully able to be decentralized, currently a lot of validators (out of free will) put RippleLabs in their UNL though. This has nothing to do with whatever RippleLabs puts in their ripple.txt file on their website and it is NOT hard coded anywhere (check the source code).
* Issuing 1 billion BTC to yourself on ripple is just like writing a check to yourself for 1 billion USD - you first have to find someone who actually trusts you and gives you anything in return. If I sell an account on BitcoinChina with 50 million BTC as balance, would you buy it or would you mistrust BitcoinChina to have their books in order...?
* The example with MtGox loosing funds is especially weird, as it is exactly the same thing that happened with his own service. Also BTC on Ripple are as "real" as BTC on MtGox - you have no control over the underlying asset that you moved somewhere to be able to trade it. Ripple does not affect Bitcoins you have and gateways can only own Bitcoins you send them.
* Trusting multiple issuers in one currency gives a big fat warning sign in the client now, also it is possible to disable this default behaviour.
* You pay trading fees (more than 0.2% by the way) when trading on Bitstamp itself, also quite a few gateways now already have vowed to charge 0% transaction fees on their balances.
* XRP are given away for free or next to nothing, I never paid for any of them. Also having a business model does not make something a scam.

I'm not saying i trust TradeFortress, but i found the info about what ripple was interesting to say the least.
So are you saying that what info there is on ripplescam is false?

Also misinformation or not, having 0,01% having practicely all the coins says enough to me to stay away from it.

Oh why don't people read what others have already said about this. This site contains mostly misinformation and is designed to spread FUD.
The author of that site (TradeFortress) had a vested interest in damaging Ripple because it's a competitor to part of his own business.
Guess what? People who trusted TradeFortress have lost a lot of money to a dubious hack, there are accusations against him floating around but I've not followed them enough to make a sound judgement, so I just leave it as it is.
At the end of the day, trusting Ripple Labs was a lot wiser than trusting TradeFortress.

Onkel Paul

Again +1

This is really the opposite of what cryptocurrency's were made for.
If i wanted to have a currency where the 0,1% (or in this case 0,01%) has 99% of the money i wouldn't have invested my money in crypto's.

Stop spreading your propaganda for your coin that stands exactly for what is wrong with our economy.

Great site for those who are not blinded by all the bullshit that is being rubbed in their eyes:

http://ripplescam.org/

Unless you set a no-ripple flag, yes (also you get wanrd about that by the client). Why would you trust someone in China for USD though?!

As a user or a gateway? Please talk to a lawyer about this.

Have a look on that list... There are several Ripple gateways in China who operate already for quite some time (in CNY though). I have no idea how they deal with foreigners, if you speak chinese, please contact them.

Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple.

Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple. I have no idea of your jurisdiction you're in, so there's that...

I am still not sure what you want to be? A simple user of Ripple, a gateway or a market maker... gateways might have issues in China if they allow Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals. If their users buy BTC with CNY deposited on Ripple however, there's nothing they can do about it.

Just by denominating something in USD does not mean you do business in the US, I am not so sure what you are trying to do though.


In the end I would anyways not recommend to trust multiple issuers for one currency on Ripple unless you really know what you are doing and want to accomplish. If you are happy with either Bitstamp or RippleChina's USD, why would you need both? Also if you are concerned or unsure about the default implicit 1:1 market making, just disable it.

90 billion ripple are owned by the top 15 holders. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap6WwaNTa-L3dHFhMWtEM251akdrLXo0TmVYa0RmS3c#gid=0

keep spreading your lies that won't make the ripple price go higher.

If I trust Ripple China for USD and I trust Bitstamp for USD, then USD payments can ripple through me.

Do I need to be registered as a money transmitter under US law (FINCEN) or Chinese law (SAFE)?

Is this on the list of prohibited activities for foreigners in China?  

Do I need to maintain minimum registered capital under Chinese law?

How do I comply with KYC and AML if I have no idea who is rippling through me?

Do I need to comply with Chinese foreign currency law as a third party payment processor? Does this mean I am prohibited from dealing in Bitcoin under the PBOC directive?

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?

Feel free to submit a pull request then, the client was open source from the beginning by the way:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client

XRPs not so intresting, but Ripple can become a huge exchange.

Inaccurate and outdated.

Source code: https://github.com/ripple

Informative discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324 (clears many misconceptions)

Ripple, such a lovely scam.

Ripplescam.org.

That is all.

Ripple needs Authy.com and a way to import your Ripple backup wallet...

Great that I can donate my computingpower to science, but who cares....
I won't lie it's a good system and well worth investing in....

Excellent. Four people who are illiterate and haven't done their homework (how embarrassing). Go run your own Ripple node and then come back.

I dare you.

People throw around claims of centralization. I am hoping to expose more people to this lower level discussion, which helps clear up many misconceptions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324

Ripple and Bitcoin are radically different. They focus on solving different problems of centralization. Everyone recognizes centralized exchanges are a serious issue for cryptos. If you trade cryptos on any closed exchange site---you are embracing closed IOU systems, per exchange. Closed Bitcoin payment systems are the next major coming centralization threat to Bitcoin and Cryptos. Ripple addresses both.

Ripple and Bitcoin each support decentralization via different means, and at different levels.

Ripple has massive potential to complement Bitcoin, Alts, and all currencies. Pay for goods using any currency. XRP is one component of the powerful network and protocol that it provides.

Seriously, could the "RIPPLE = SCAM" people calm down a bit?

You have been heard loud and clear by now and are just spamming the thread with 0 new information other than declaring your personal opinion.

Ripple is more similar to BitPay than Bitcoin, so you as a business owner would be interested in accepting any kind of payment but receiving USD. You would likely NOT accept XRP as currency but rather find a trustworthy gateway and accept USD from them (BitPay is the "gateway" for a readily made BTC --> USD market for example).

0. is not really a question but yes, in the end you will have some costs probably for withdrawing money from your gateway, just like right now it might cost you money to withdraw from a Bitcoin exchange. You could try to leave all/a part of that money on Ripple and pay whatever you need to pay for with this, in the end however receiving money likely is never totally for free and/or risk free, even in a pure Bitcoin setting. Ripple won't change that.

1. You should trust them (actually in most cases you only need to trust a single gateway, which I think you mean when you say "middleman") because they are based in your local jurisdiction, licensed as money service provider and have a good track record as well as doing good service. Gateways are even a little bit "less" than a Bitcoin exchange (they only need to deal in one single currency and offer a very limited service range - deposit and withdrawal) so if you have trusted Bitcoin exchanges or merchant services so far, use the same measures you used to trust these ones to also find a trusted gateway. Your clients can use this or any other gateway on Ripple, as long as there is a market somehow between the 2 currencies (e.g. BTC by Bitstamp can be somehow traded for USD by Peercover) they are able to pay you.

2. This is a business opportunity, gateways do not need to deal with BTC or anything not known to local regulators at all, so it should be relatively straightforward for any enterpreneur to set up a small business that processes NZD deposits and withdrawals to Ripple. Until this is the case, you can use whatever gateway you trust and that can actually wire you money, your customers could for example use BTC to pay you then. Lack of local gateways is currently one of the problems of Ripple, but businesses don't pop up over night after all. If you serve a very local market by the way, I am wondering why you are even on a Bitcoin forum, I'm sure there are local payment networks in NZ that are more useful and trusted than either Ripple and BTC - Ripple might help you in the future, BTC might be appealing to you because of philisophical reasons or whatever else, both are likely not THAT great if you just have a very domestic market until any of them have a FAR larger market share than currently.

3. Hard to say, to just enable payments, you can simply give them a link/URL (https://ripple.com/wiki/Ripple_URIs) that they can click on and their preferred client pops up. To really teach them all about the system might be a bit out of scope for a merchant, I guess? Unfortunately guides etc. for end users are as rare as for Bitcoin in its infancy, Ripple currently struggles more with getting gateways and market makers on board than convincing merchants - I wouldn't recommend very much to only rely on Ripple as payment network right now, maybe keep it as an option for the future, similar to pure Bitcoin payments (it took Coinbase and BitPay also some time to get traction even in the tiny Bitcoin ecosystem). My guess is that within 1-2 years the focus will shift from the more backend and trading side towards end user and merchant integration, the speed of that will be determined by adoption from gateways and traders.

4. By open markets, anyone that wants to can provide liquidity and make markets within Ripple, currently also quite easily in a relatively anonymous way (you don't need to register with Bitstamp to buy their USD on Ripple for example - you will need to do KYC though to withdraw them to your bank account later, if you want to do that). Market depth is actually a concern (even still with Bitcoin), the big difference to the (if you use the ripplescam.org pictures) "distributed" Bitcoin exchange market is that Ripple's markets are far more interconnected and there might be several paths to use for trades than just a single order book between currencyA and currencyB.