We are open to suggestions about how to distribute the coins. We are going to try to be as fair as possible but after the distribution will it really matter how we did it? A currency's distribution method doesn't really impact its usefulness.
Lol at this statement, sorry. A distribution method does impact the currency. If it didn't satoshi could have just sent coins at random to a few users. Would bitcoin be the same if he did?
As far as a fair distribution method. How about bounties and contests? Make people have to work to get xrp as well as giveaways.. The users that put in work get more xrp
Topic: Ripple: A pre-mine? Does it matter? (Read 13975 times)
Ripple may be over before it even starts.
Ripple-killer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-holy-grail-i-wish-i-could-kiss-the-author-of-bitmessage-on-his-face-212490
Ripple-killer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-holy-grail-i-wish-i-could-kiss-the-author-of-bitmessage-on-his-face-212490
A currency can still have value even if it took little to no effort to obtain the material being used as currency. Shell money, for example, or USD. Something has value if we give it value. The "pre mined" argument is not valid in my opinion because it supposes that all currencies should be created in the same way that bitcoins are created. There may be other legitimate concerns about ripple, but I don't believe this to be one of them.
I do not get why it even is a discussion? The fact that ripple was premined in such amounts already makes it a failcurrency. It's only meaning is to be an IOU ponzi scheme, to feed of other greedy people.
The Ripple wiki https://ripple.com/wiki/Rippled_build_instructions lists ctags http://ctags.sourceforge.net/ as an optional package, which has a GPL license. Will this be respected, or does its optional status mean it is not necessary?
It is not necessary. It is not distributed as part of Ripple nor is it a dependency. 
The gateway software contains a rippled binary I believe. If so, they have distributed it.
There really is no "gateway software". There's just the rippled software. To my knowledge, we have not distributed the binary to anyone who has not also received the source. In any event, the only licenses the rippled software source code is subject to are:1) The OpenCoin license.
2) The OpenSSL license.
3) The Boost license.
4) The LevelDB license.
5) The Bitcoin license.
Rippled also uses SQLite3 and json-cpp which are in the public domain. Additional licenses might apply to the JavaScript unit tests.
I stand corrected, thanks for clearing this up. The Ripple wiki https://ripple.com/wiki/Rippled_build_instructions lists ctags http://ctags.sourceforge.net/ as an optional package, which has a GPL license. Will this be respected, or does its optional status mean it is not necessary?
The gateway software contains a rippled binary I believe. If so, they have distributed it.
There really is no "gateway software". There's just the rippled software. To my knowledge, we have not distributed the binary to anyone who has not also received the source. In any event, the only licenses the rippled software source code is subject to are:1) The OpenCoin license.
2) The OpenSSL license.
3) The Boost license.
4) The LevelDB license.
5) The Bitcoin license.
Rippled also uses SQLite3 and json-cpp which are in the public domain. Additional licenses might apply to the JavaScript unit tests.
Update: As there seems to be some confusion, the portions of the Rippled source developed by OpenCoin are *not* available under an ISC-like license yet. The OpenCoin license on the server source is still strictly proprietary. This will change, but it has not changed yet.
They're not distributing rippled, so there can be no violation. You're not mandated to share your modifications on free software, butwhen you choose to do it, you have to follow the rules.
I don't think you can violate a license with code running on your server, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think you can violate a license with code running on your server, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
The gateway software contains a rippled binary I believe. If so, they have distributed it.
But if you only use it as a BTC / fiat exchange, then you'll be able to benefit from it greatly.
I'll be brief 
anyone buying into ripple today runs a considerable additional risk because today, it's not open sourced, not decentralized and not verified.
Note: The following analysis assumes that the Ripple system eventually becomes open sourced, gets decentralized, and that rigorous mathematical analysis proves that the system is robust and fulfills its technical promises.
Your whole analysis is moot until these assumptions become true (if ever)anyone buying into ripple today runs a considerable additional risk because today, it's not open sourced, not decentralized and not verified.
They're not distributing rippled, so there can be no violation. You're not mandated to share your modifications on free software, butwhen you choose to do it, you have to follow the rules.
I don't think you can violate a license with code running on your server, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think you can violate a license with code running on your server, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
How are they violating an open source license? They are not using any GPL-ed code.
And you've got proof to back it up? Hmm?Quote
I find it interesting that you made your thread "moderated" to prevent any sort of critical discussion.
It's not to prevent critical discussion, it's to prevent dumps of copypastas. Feel free to discuss issues raised on the site.Quote
My thoughts on this is that you are just pissed off because they came up with a really amazing idea which just happens to have the biggest pre-mine in the history of crypto-currency.
There are problems with the "debt is money" model, in addition to how it is centralized and closed source.
Quote
But is it a scam? I will concede that if it doesn't become open source then there are some significant problems. However, I see no evidence of an evil plan.
You don't call something open source if it is not open source, like how it's illegal to advertise "ALL DRINKS FREE" in your signs, and when people enter you tell them "oh this will happen eventually".
The reason why I created a website is for SEO. RippleScam would have succeeded when it is the #2 result when someone searches for "ripple", and of course the #1 result for "ripple scam". I'm also looking into advertising this on AdWords for the terms meanwhile.
Also, this is a very big assumption to make given the profit orientated goals of OpenCoin Inc. They will open source it if it makes commercial sense to do so - and there's only commercial sense when people demand it to be open sourced, and for OpenCoin Inc to stop violating open source licenses and release their source code
How are they violating an open source license? They are not using any GPL-ed code.
I find it interesting that you made your thread "moderated" to prevent any sort of critical discussion. My thoughts on this is that you are just pissed off because they came up with a really amazing idea which just happens to have the biggest pre-mine in the history of crypto-currency.
But is it a scam? I will concede that if it doesn't become open source then there are some significant problems. However, I see no evidence of an evil plan.
People who criticize Ripple without stating facts are in my opinion just trolling. Such as a certain person who put up a website dedicated to trashing Ripple. Here's a well-reasoned analysis which states facts.
Nothing there. Kinda ironic.Please also try reading RippleScam first.
Also, this is a very big assumption to make given the profit orientated goals of OpenCoin Inc. They will open source it if it makes commercial sense to do so - and there's only commercial sense when people demand it to be open sourced, and for OpenCoin Inc to stop violating open source licenses and release their source code
Quote
Note: The following analysis assumes that the Ripple system eventually becomes open sourced, gets decentralized, and that rigorous mathematical analysis proves that the system is robust and fulfills its technical promises.
People who criticize Ripple without stating facts are in my opinion just trolling. Such as a certain person who put up a website dedicated to trashing Ripple. Here's a well-reasoned analysis which states facts.
The thread was locked but I'm re-opening it because the information is still relevant.
Don't think anyone faults the Post Office for "pre-mining" stamps. But if the Post Office were to claim stamps were decentralised then I think you'd find a few people disagreeing.
Think of it as multiple post offices - and local corner stores acting as postal agents - selling stamps then - based on a common consensus about how many stamps should be distributed.Now imagine competing chains of post offices providing the same postal money order services, but not having cross-redemption agreements. The first post office chain was started by some guys who pre-printed their stamps and threw them around, letting the post offices buy more stamps from them as needed.
In time, I think these competing chains would merge, or would start cross-redeeming their postal money orders.
When you talk about centralization, it's really a question of degree, and how you do it. The Fed also has several branches, but it's controlled by a board and subject to Congress. If every man starts his own cryptocurrency, there's no centralization, but total chaos about what these things are worth really. Ripple has a similar issue of not all IOUs being equally worth due to defaults, (see also subprime mortgage crisis), but at least Ripple IOUs are issued in a set currency, not BeepbopBux or MisterbiggCoins.
The lack of source code is also preventing "post offices" from springing up everywhere.
If I'd been able to download the source I would probably have had gateways running by now for at least a few different altcoins. As it is maybe by the time the source does come out there won't be much point worrying about gateways until first a new network with some distribution that isn't so controversial is set up.
-MarkM-
If I'd been able to download the source I would probably have had gateways running by now for at least a few different altcoins. As it is maybe by the time the source does come out there won't be much point worrying about gateways until first a new network with some distribution that isn't so controversial is set up.
-MarkM-
If you're the type of person who faults the Post Office for "pre-mining" stamps or the Fed for "pre-mining" USD, I guess you could see it that way.
Don't think anyone faults the Post Office for "pre-mining" stamps. But if the Post Office were to claim stamps were decentralised then I think you'd find a few people disagreeing.
If you're the type of person who faults the Post Office for "pre-mining" stamps or the Fed for "pre-mining" USD, I guess you could see it that way.
Now, there's plenty of problems with Ripple, but a lack of "proof of work", and a lack of wasted electricity, is not one of those problems. Distributing free XRP to people is a great marketing idea, but really it would still work if everyone had to buy XRPs.
Now, there's plenty of problems with Ripple, but a lack of "proof of work", and a lack of wasted electricity, is not one of those problems. Distributing free XRP to people is a great marketing idea, but really it would still work if everyone had to buy XRPs.
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