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Topic: Ripple is not a scam - and you may be making yourself vulnerable to actual scams - page 2. (Read 10274 times)

full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 100
People will use good gateway directly without the need to go through an obscured crypto-washed intermediary like Ripple.
The gateway is a part of all the Ripple system, and there isn't anything obscure in Ripple.

I come to the conclusion that maybe if someone isn't able to understand Ripple, he isn't also aware to how Bitcoin works.

If you claim to understand Ripple, show us a real use case and not some hypothetical example to articulate the benefits.

Illustrate how you can send 1,000,000 Yen from Japan to someone in US at the best USD conversion rate that is cheaper and faster way than existing options out there today.  Proof it.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
A issuer should be visible somewhere for every currency in your ripple wallet. Maybe not straight when you look at balances, but somewhere you should be able to see how many btc you got from bitstamp and how many bitcoins you have issued by justcoin. Just an example. Also, how do you choose how to shorten an issued asset? I for instance issued bernankoins and it shortened it to ber instead of the "official" bek. And what happens when someone issues something let's say called "bernardo" and ripple shortens that to ber too?
It is visible on the "trust" tab.

Actually currency codes used "should" only be the official ISO ones (which already XRP and BTC both violate), this is obviously not enforced though. http://www.ifex-project.org/our-proposals/x-iso4217-a3 might be a solution, seems to be dormant atm. though.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Someone fund my ripple wallet with 5 or 10 XRP to get started..  Embarrassed

You need ~31 XRP to get started, 20 to activate your account, 10 for one offer in the order book, and 1 for transactions costs. The first two are minimum reserves, that is, the functionality won't work if you have less than that amount in your account, but they are not deducted. You get your 10 XRP back as soon as the offer is accepted or canceled. The 1 XRP for transactions costs will last you a long time because transaction fees are tiny.

If you want to get your hands on some XRP, you can buy them on an exchange, buy them from someone informally or earn them by donating CPU cycles to things like cancer research at computingforgood.org.

Thank you for the info Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 331
Merit: 250
A issuer should be visible somewhere for every currency in your ripple wallet. Maybe not straight when you look at balances, but somewhere you should be able to see how many btc you got from bitstamp and how many bitcoins you have issued by justcoin. Just an example. Also, how do you choose how to shorten an issued asset? I for instance issued bernankoins and it shortened it to ber instead of the "official" bek. And what happens when someone issues something let's say called "bernardo" and ripple shortens that to ber too?
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
No they don't.  We have already determined that you won't get IOUs from anyone you do not extend a trust line to.

And that's a feature, not a bug.

Quote
Therefore the IOUs are not generally tradeable.

Of course they are, that's the function of gateways, to issue and redeem IOUs that can be traded between any pair of individuals who trust the same gateway. This is very similar to what banks and payment processors do. You deposit cash with them and are then able transfer money between accounts without having to withdraw immediately.

Quote
If you guys don't understand the system then ...

Don't criticise something you clearly don't understand.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
Need to withdraw diminishes as the network expands; the IOU becomes a functional placeholder for the currency. Depending on the currency, withdrawal from the gateway could be rapid---and potentially instant if banks begin to act as gateway services.
No they don't.  We have already determined that you won't get IOUs from anyone you do not extend a trust line to. Therefore the IOUs are not generally tradeable.

If you guys don't understand the system then ...
They are generally tradeable, that's why market makers exist in Ripple. As long as there is a market path between 2 currencies, you can make a transfer in Ripple. You don't need to trust the issuer that the recipient trusts.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
Someone fund my ripple wallet with 5 or 10 XRP to get started..  Embarrassed

You need ~31 XRP to get started, 20 to activate your account, 10 for one offer in the order book, and 1 for transaction costs. The first two are minimum reserves, that is, the functionality won't work if you have less than that amount in your account, but they are not deducted. You get your 10 XRP back as soon as the offer is accepted or canceled. The 1 XRP for transaction costs will last you a long time because transaction fees are tiny.

If you want to get your hands on some XRP, you can buy them on an exchange, buy them from someone informally or earn them by donating CPU cycles to things like cancer research at computingforgood.org.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 2174
Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist
Need to withdraw diminishes as the network expands; the IOU becomes a functional placeholder for the currency. Depending on the currency, withdrawal from the gateway could be rapid---and potentially instant if banks begin to act as gateway services.

No they don't.  We have already determined that you won't get IOUs from anyone you do not extend a trust line to. Therefore the IOUs are not generally tradeable.

If you guys don't understand the system then ...
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 568
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Someone fund my ripple wallet with 5 or 10 XRP to get started..  Embarrassed
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
Is Ripple decentralized in distribution and network?
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
People will use good gateway directly without the need to go through an obscured crypto-washed intermediary like Ripple.
The gateway is a part of all the Ripple system, and there isn't anything obscure in Ripple.

I come to the conclusion that maybe if someone isn't able to understand Ripple, he isn't also aware to how Bitcoin works.
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 100
Ripple IOU are the same as money on the Paypal account.
There are many people that uses Paypal all the day (making transactions), for weeks or months without withdraw their money on their bank account.
So the same will be with Ripple, with just some differences (from Paypal), no frozen accounts, no chargeback, no limits of transactions.
Every good gateway can become the new Paypal until there are people that trust him and his services.

People will use good gateway directly without the need to go through an obscured crypto-washed intermediary like Ripple.

sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Stop being dumb.   Ripple doesn't enable instant payment either. Whatever your send via Ripple is useless until the recipient gets what he really wants.

If a vendor wants to receive 10 BTC for his product/service, getting an instant IOU in Ripple is pointless.   He will still need to wait for 10 to 30 mins for that BTC from Ripple to come into his real wallet.

If a vendor wants to receive $10,000 for his product/service, and he is located in a small town in China, getting an instant IOU in Ripple is pointless.  He will still need to wait for whatever amount of time needed for the money to be wired into his bank account.



Need to withdraw diminishes as the network expands; the IOU becomes a functional placeholder for the currency. Depending on the currency, withdrawal from the gateway could be rapid---and potentially instant if banks begin to act as gateway services.

XRP itself can also be used, eliminating need to deal in IOU.

Both IOU and XRP beat BTC in speed, no contest.

Bitcoin itself is great, and Ripple supports Bitcoin for faster payment transactions.

Ripple is a promising alternative to the closed centralized payment systems that are overtaking the landscape; they are able to thrive based on the limitations of Bitcoin.
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
Ripple IOU are the same as money on the Paypal account.
There are many people that uses Paypal all the day (making transactions), for weeks or months without withdraw their money on their bank account.
So the same will be with Ripple, with just some differences (from Paypal), no frozen accounts, no chargeback, no limits of transactions.
Every good gateway can become the new Paypal until there are people that trust him and his services.

Anyway, no one is forced to use Ripple, if you prefer, you can still use Bitcoin directly ... or Bitcoin on some Ripple gateway.
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 100
Instantly means in negligible time. The 10 to 30 minutes needed for BTC transactions is not 'negligible'. Put it in a real world application and imagine McDonald's accepted BTC. LOL...I used to get bent at the little old lady writing out checks....now I've got to wait on you and the superior BTC payment network.

As you've clearly changed the meaning of next to no time (instantly) to mean 10 to 30 minutes. By 'Ripple offers zero value in the payment system' do you mean it offers 10 to 30 times the value of the existing system?

As I said...it's impossible for zealots to grasp. When confronted with the shortcomings of BTC, they'll use every logic fallacy known....change definitions of words, set up straw men, ad hominem attacks, etc.

I didn't know that I could send you Litecoin and you get Bitcoin....let alone USD, EUR, etc. ...and no, you don't have to use the banking system to move money within the Ripple network either. For example, you can put cash in via ZipZap.

Learn the facts first, then feel free to distort them however you choose.

Stop being dumb.   Ripple doesn't enable instant payment either. Whatever your send via Ripple is useless until the recipient gets what he really wants.

If a vendor wants to receive 10 BTC for his product/service, getting an instant IOU in Ripple is pointless.   He will still need to wait for 10 to 30 mins for that BTC from Ripple to come into his real wallet.

If a vendor wants to receive $10,000 for his product/service, and he is located in a small town in China, getting an instant IOU in Ripple is pointless.  He will still need to wait for whatever amount of time needed for the money to be wired into his bank account.

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
For cryptocurrency to cryptocurrency, we can already send any amount directly to anybody anywhere instantly.

That's not a use case Ripple is intended to facilitate. You can of course choose to make direct XRP payments, just as with any other cryptocurrency.

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For Fiat currency, even with the use of Ripple, you will still need to use the banking system to move the money to the end point.  You can't magically move US$100K from one place to another.     Someone will still need to absorb the banking fee for the transfer.

The fee for the netted payments to be exact. Fees at gateways are on the order of 1%, not the 15% fee Western Union charges.

Quote
So why even create a complex system when it doesn't improve things at all?

Remittances and buying selling cryptocurrencies against fiat currencies are the killer applications right now.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
In the end, Ripple is a currency agnostic payment and exchange network. It allows people to send any amount in any currency directly to anybody anywhere instantly. No other system, network, exchange or currency can offer a service close to this.

Cypto-coin and fiat zealots who are religiously devoted to their denomination are incapable of rising above their dogma to appreciate the need or value of a secular financial system like Ripple. Even if crypto-coin profit…I mean….prophet….Satoshi Nakamoto, was revealed to be the Ben Bernanke, and he owned up to the million+ BTC that he pre-mined, BTC fundamentalists would remain unfazed. …. They would simply spend the hour or so it would take to get 3 to 6 confirmations to create new denial mechanisms.  

If a currency or payment system cannot be used to transact business instantly, it has no place in the future. BTC cannot be used as a point of sale protocol. It is too slow….plain and simple….end of conversation.

Much to the chagrin of the fundamentalists Bitcoiners, Ripple is the only present way to make BTC viable in the future.

Nonsense.   Ripple offers zero value in the payment system.

For cryptocurrency to cryptocurrency, we can already send any amount directly to anybody anywhere instantly.

For Fiat currency, even with the use of Ripple, you will still need to use the banking system to move the money to the end point.  You can't magically move US$100K from one place to another.     Someone will still need to absorb the banking fee for the transfer.

So why even create a complex system when it doesn't improve things at all?


Instantly means in negligible time. The 10 to 30 minutes needed for BTC transactions is not 'negligible'. Put it in a real world application and imagine McDonald's accepted BTC. LOL...I used to get bent at the little old lady writing out checks....now I've got to wait on you and the superior BTC payment network.

As you've clearly changed the meaning of next to no time (instantly) to mean 10 to 30 minutes. By 'Ripple offers zero value in the payment system' do you mean it offers 10 to 30 times the value of the existing system?

As I said...it's impossible for zealots to grasp. When confronted with the shortcomings of BTC, they'll use every logic fallacy known....change definitions of words, set up straw men, ad hominem attacks, etc.

I didn't know that I could send you Litecoin and you get Bitcoin....let alone USD, EUR, etc. ...and no, you don't have to use the banking system to move money within the Ripple network either. For example, you can put cash in via ZipZap.

Learn the facts first, then feel free to distort them however you choose.

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
Why are you going through all this hassle when you can just use Bitstamp directly, without Ripple in the middle?

You can still use Ripple if Bitstamp is temporarily down. There might be a future for gateways that focus exclusively on issuing and redeeming IOUs, without offering a proprietary trading engine.
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