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Topic: Ripple or Bitcoin - page 44. (Read 34110 times)

Rampion

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 28, 2013, 11:32:23 AM

Quote from: Rampion on May 28, 2013, 11:21:01 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 28, 2013, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Again you link to MPs blog, this time not even relevant to the debate. I ask you again, did you research ripple yourself or are you parroting what MP feeds you?

MPOE is not Mircea Popescu? I've been thinking for ages that MPOE-PR was Mircea's forum account.

allegedly not

That's funny, MPOE links to Mircea's posts every day, most of the times to support/complement his points... I definitely believed MPOE=Mircea.

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: Rampion on May 28, 2013, 11:21:01 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 28, 2013, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Again you link to MPs blog, this time not even relevant to the debate. I ask you again, did you research ripple yourself or are you parroting what MP feeds you?

MPOE is not Mircea Popescu? I've been thinking for ages that MPOE-PR was Mircea's forum account.

allegedly not

talnted

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www.bitcoingem.com

My understanding was that these two currencies had two totally different purposes.

Rampion

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Merit: 1018

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 28, 2013, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Again you link to MPs blog, this time not even relevant to the debate. I ask you again, did you research ripple yourself or are you parroting what MP feeds you?

MPOE is not Mircea Popescu? I've been thinking for ages that MPOE-PR was Mircea's forum account.

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Again you link to MPs blog, this time not even relevant to the debate. I ask you again, did you research ripple yourself or are you parroting what MP feeds you?

misterbigg

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Maybe he's just getting paid better than you. I find it hysterical tho, this guy is famous for having made a pretend-torrent that was mostly used as a trojan horse for the RIAA to get the details of users. He dropped off the radar, a few years later he's here promoting Ripple hardcore. How little changes if you're made out of shit, huh.

I think it's worth singling out this post and bringing it to everyone's attention because not only does it speak to the character of MPOE-PR but it also shows that not everything coming from this persona is accurate (although to be fair shim has been right about a few things, like Coinlab).

I am not an employee of OpenCoin nor have I been paid or compensated to talk or do anything related to Ripple. It's interesting how I get called a shill, while certain bad actors are paying newbies to shill for anti-Ripple. It is true that I am the author of BearShare, but iMesh took it over a long time ago. Anything having to do with the RIAA getting details of the BearShare users has nothing to do with me.

I must vigorously disagree that I am "made out of shit." Quite the contrary if anyone is "made out of shit" I think it is probably MPOE-PR although this a matter of opinion. It seems he resorts mostly to ad hominems, or worse name calling. Compare and contrast the content of my posts where I try to present facts in a calm and concise manner, versus the other guy's which routinely resort to name calling, slander, and disinformation.

Far from being "against Bitcoin" or wanting Ripple to "destroy Bitcoin" I am bullish on both: I hold most of my net worth in Bitcoin and XRP in equal amounts. My feeling is that Ripple and Bitcoin are complementary with each having their own strengths. I'm also a contributor to both the Bitcoin repository as well as the Ripple repository. Interesting that when I look through the commit log of either, I see nothing from either MPOE-PR or his puppet master.

I've had lots of experience with forum trolls (the BearShare forums were raunchy!) and when I read anything from MPOE-PR, I just mentally note that everything written is "for entertainment purposes only." Perhaps someday, hot air will be a viable source of alternative energy but until then MPOE-PR will remain delegated to the dust-bin of irrelevance.

TL;DR version:

Red

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Quote from: bitcryptonit on May 28, 2013, 05:24:43 AM

Quote from: Red on May 28, 2013, 01:03:58 AM

So you are saying the tag line for Ripple should be:

Ripple: it's the BitCoin for legitimate business.

yes, like paypal and other centralised solutions. and no, no one will convince me its not centralised as long as they not release their sources. i simply dont believe them.

So you are saying the tag line for BitCoin should be:

BitCoin: It's the Ripple for illegitimate business.

oakpacific

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 28, 2013, 06:38:02 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Quote

Problem 0. First, to get some nonsense out of the way. A system of colored coins, a p2pexchange or somesuch does not necessarily constitute competition for MPEx.

It's not the case that I'm stuck in the present model, threatened by anything and everything coming along. It's the case that I sit comfortably at the top of the chain. If I believe at any point there is value or use in them I can just... take... them. If experience is any guide, I shall take them the next day. Either, both, something similar. Further along those lines, MPEx makes plenty each month, certainly enough to afford it development of anything it wishes developed. To spec, by a competent team if need be.

So, if I say no it's not because of any other reason than simply the obvious : I do not believe them to be either useful or practical. Which allows us to move on to a discussion of that, which I hope will be instructive.

MPEx makes more in a good month than the entire value of "VC" investment in all of Ripple. That's right, all Katz&Shill co labor added together is nothing compared to what MPEx makes. Not even going into the financial subtleties of what it means to be valued in the 700k BTC range.

So, no. Mr Bear doesn't say Miss LittleShitInTheRain is worthless because he's threatened by it. He just doesn't feel it appealing. Because it stinks.

In other words, why do poor loosers believe that if it had really been a worthwhile investment, people who are much more resourceful than them could only watch helplessly as the s**ers becoming rich, rather than taking over the market?

Quote from: oakpacific on May 27, 2013, 11:23:49 AM

Yeah, tell me more why should I stop using IOUs issued by at least somehow legally regulated corporations, and join the happy lawless Ripple family.

Just look how great this works in practice.

Intersango is dodgy, but it stands in shame at the sheer level of dodginess that Ripple manages to achieve.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 27, 2013, 10:07:20 AM

It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.

Let's quote here, shall we.

Quote from: oakpacific on May 27, 2013, 11:23:49 AM

Yeah, tell me more why should I stop using IOUs issued by at least somehow legally regulated corporations, and join the happy lawless Ripple family.

Just look how great this works in practice.

Quote from: Coinseeker on May 27, 2013, 11:41:53 AM

Fortunately, misterbigg seems to be on the case. He frankly has the patience (I do not) and the knowledge to field such "loaded" questions. I'll leave you gentlemen to it.

bitcryptonit

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Quote from: Red on May 28, 2013, 01:03:58 AM

Quote from: nameface on May 27, 2013, 11:41:04 PM

I see Bitcoin as the store of value of the future. If we want to store money, or send it anonymously (absolutely anonymous Bitcoin transactions are coming), we have Bitcoin.

If we want to send money all around the world to all sorts of legitimate businesses and individuals in a bunch of different currencies, we have Ripple.

So you are saying the tag line for Ripple should be:

Ripple: it's the BitCoin for legitimate business.

yes, like paypal and other centralised solutions. and no, no one will convince me its not centralised as long as they not release their sources. i simply dont believe them.

Red

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Merit: 115

Quote from: nameface on May 27, 2013, 11:41:04 PM

So you are saying the tag line for Ripple should be:

Ripple: it's the BitCoin for legitimate business.

nameface

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Merit: 250

Quote from: misterbigg on May 27, 2013, 03:45:27 PM

It's a hybrid of centralization and decentralization:

Redemption of gateway balances: centralized, possibility of default
Transfer of gateway balances between third parties: decentralized, cryptographically secure

Overall doesn't Ripple look more like a hybrid of decentralized and distributed?

Quote from: JoelKatz on May 27, 2013, 10:08:20 PM

However, it can have a significant affect on people who use gateways as a store of value. For that, you really want gateways that are insured. This is a great application for Bitcoins, IMO.

SamS

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Quote from: acceptance2 on May 27, 2013, 10:33:06 PM

Moderators?

How is it this escapes forum policy that applies to all other cryptos?

Why hasn't this topic been moved to Alternate cryptocurrencies?

Is forum policy that flexible?

It's been a civil discussion for awhile. I don't mind holding it in alt-crypto though -- and I agree that's where it belongs from my perspective.

SamS

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Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: JoelKatz on May 27, 2013, 10:40:16 PM

Quote from: SamS on May 27, 2013, 10:36:44 PM

I understand your point, but I don't think I really understand the fee structure overall. Won't there be fees associated with storing the value, insuring the storage, converting the currency to/from Fiat, etc... These are all things that are baked into that 2% credit card fee or 5% conversion fee (FX yes?). The remittance fee is a scam -- on this we agree.

These are the things they say are baked into that fee to justify it, but the reality is quite different. The reality is that it's lack of competition, extension of credit, and fraud prevention (due to the fact that you give the credentials away fully to make a payment) that accounts for most of the fee. Still, credit cards are probably not the very best disruption target. The higher the cost, the easier to disrupt.

Yes, the remittance business I can see for sure. International wire fees are another area that might be open for review. However, what you make up in transaction fees can be easily lost in the conversion spread so it's not so obvious to me -- especially if your competition is a money center bank moving billions around the globe daily.

I don't see how fraud prevention goes away in this system. It's basically outsourced to the gateways right? Extension of credit is a money spinner for the card companies not a cost center, yes? Lack of competition is likely. Square is certainly beginning to make a miniscule dent and the online wallets that are beginning to appear are likely to take a chunk as well over time.

Stampbit

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Ripple will crash

SamS

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Activity: 70

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Quote from: JoelKatz on May 27, 2013, 10:17:07 PM

Quote from: SamS on May 27, 2013, 10:09:34 PM

Why? Who would want all of their financial transactions to be public?

That's what they said about Facebook and Twitter. We're open about almost everything else because the benefits outweigh the costs.

Say you need $50 to buy groceries. What do you do today? You put it on a credit card (at 12%?) or, worse, take out a payday loan. But there are almost certainly friends of yours who would gladly lend you the $50 if they knew you needed it.

I actually don't use Facebook or Twitter so that argument doesn't resonate with me -- I'm actually a big privacy advocate. Arguendo though, people have a choice as to what they post on Facebook or Twitter. The same cannot be said of a public ledger. While I recognize your likely counter-argument is to then "not use this system" to do business, I don't really think that's a positive for the proposed system. The problem isn't one of personal transparency. It's one of governmental accountability.

With regard to loans from friends, oddly enough after driving down from the Santa Cruz mountains to get groceries this afternoon I realized I had forgotten my wallet. So, I called a nearby friend and borrowed some cash for groceries. Now if the phone based transaction systems were a bit more prevalent, I could have just used my phone for the purchase, since I didn't forget that, and just avoided any kind of embarrassment and comments about encroaching senility.

No loan necessary.

I'm open to the idea that these are personal preferences though rather than definitive arguments. I believe in privacy -- others may not.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: SamS on May 27, 2013, 10:36:44 PM

SamS

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Quote from: JoelKatz on May 27, 2013, 10:32:30 PM

Quote from: SamS on May 27, 2013, 10:27:46 PM

In the current "real-world" setup, money is either held by a bank and FDIC insured to $250K or advanced by a credit card company. So, there is no "default risk" unless the FDIC goes down. In the Ripple system, neither the store of value nor the transit value is insured. This seems like a real negative currently.

A .25% default risk (5% risk of the event, 5% of funds at risk) versus a 2% credit card fee, a 6% remittance fee, or a 5% conversion fee looks like a pretty good deal. But I definitely agree -- having insured gateways is even better.

acceptance2

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Activity: 453

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Moderators?

How is it this escapes forum policy that applies to all other cryptos?

Why hasn't this topic been moved to Alternate cryptocurrencies?

Is forum policy that flexible?

JoelKatz

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Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: SamS on May 27, 2013, 10:27:46 PM