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Topic: RISERS for 2 coins - page 2. (Read 4456 times)

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Why is it so damn hot in here?
February 05, 2012, 08:46:23 PM
#33
I dont doubt what you guys are saying.  Im sure in some situations the molex is a good idea. But to say its needed for any and all dual chips or more than 4 cards is complete bullshit. What should be said is they might be a good idea if your using cheap equipment or trying to run more cards than what your board was intended. If you have a decent board and psu that was designed for multiple cards you will not NEED the molex. Your equipment will run just fine without it and you will have saved yourself some money.

Ok.  Here's what it boils down to.. the PCIE spec allows for up to 75watts to be pulled through a PCIE slot.  Most cards only pull 25watts, with your higher end/dual gpu cards pulling the full amount.  Some board manufacturers will cut corners and think "They won't use all 6 PCIE slots at one time, so we'll only account for 150 watts for that" and go cheap.   Then you go and use risers to make more cards fit than what would normally and before you know it, you've got 6x25=150watts of draw.  Ok, not an issue.  The board the designed for 150 watts.  If any of those cards starts pulling more than 25watts and the board was made cheaply, you're screwed.

See how both sides can actually be right in this situation?  It really comes down to your exact mix of hardware.  So you run 6x5830s.  We all know different brands run their cards slightly different.  One person's 6x5830 might pull more than a different person's 6x5830s.  Its easier to make a blanket statement about using molex than it is to go and explain all of this, especially to n00bs. 

That being said, I think 22.95 for a riser is a bit much, although I have bought some when I couldn't get them elsewhere.
 

Interesting direction this thread has gone... I've had 3 5970s and a 5830 going strong for about 4 months on standard extenders without issue(1200watt corsair,gigabyte ud3 mb). I never thought about overdrawing power from the pcie connector but this thread has me thinking. I'm only drawing 1000w at the wall but I can't get my system to boot with any more cards. I'm thinking I need a pcie extender with molex, and that I'm lucky I haven't burnt anything out yet.

With that said, I hesitently started to order one from cablesaurus. $22 is ridiculous, add $6 shipping on top of that and it's enough to make me change my mind. From the pics it looks like they just soldered a single pin molex connector to one of the exposed pcie pins. I may break out the old soldering gun and make a few myself. Anyone have any experience making their own?

This;
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fs-custom-length-pci-e-extension-cables-with-or-without-molex-power-38725
legendary
Activity: 1973
Merit: 1007
February 05, 2012, 08:35:25 PM
#32
I dont doubt what you guys are saying.  Im sure in some situations the molex is a good idea. But to say its needed for any and all dual chips or more than 4 cards is complete bullshit. What should be said is they might be a good idea if your using cheap equipment or trying to run more cards than what your board was intended. If you have a decent board and psu that was designed for multiple cards you will not NEED the molex. Your equipment will run just fine without it and you will have saved yourself some money.

Ok.  Here's what it boils down to.. the PCIE spec allows for up to 75watts to be pulled through a PCIE slot.  Most cards only pull 25watts, with your higher end/dual gpu cards pulling the full amount.  Some board manufacturers will cut corners and think "They won't use all 6 PCIE slots at one time, so we'll only account for 150 watts for that" and go cheap.   Then you go and use risers to make more cards fit than what would normally and before you know it, you've got 6x25=150watts of draw.  Ok, not an issue.  The board the designed for 150 watts.  If any of those cards starts pulling more than 25watts and the board was made cheaply, you're screwed.

See how both sides can actually be right in this situation?  It really comes down to your exact mix of hardware.  So you run 6x5830s.  We all know different brands run their cards slightly different.  One person's 6x5830 might pull more than a different person's 6x5830s.  Its easier to make a blanket statement about using molex than it is to go and explain all of this, especially to n00bs. 

That being said, I think 22.95 for a riser is a bit much, although I have bought some when I couldn't get them elsewhere.
 

Interesting direction this thread has gone... I've had 3 5970s and a 5830 going strong for about 4 months on standard extenders without issue(1200watt corsair,gigabyte ud3 mb). I never thought about overdrawing power from the pcie connector but this thread has me thinking. I'm only drawing 1000w at the wall but I can't get my system to boot with any more cards. I'm thinking I need a pcie extender with molex, and that I'm lucky I haven't burnt anything out yet.

With that said, I hesitently started to order one from cablesaurus. $22 is ridiculous, add $6 shipping on top of that and it's enough to make me change my mind. From the pics it looks like they just soldered a single pin molex connector to one of the exposed pcie pins. I may break out the old soldering gun and make a few myself. Anyone have any experience making their own?
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
February 05, 2012, 06:42:07 PM
#31

+1

As for the part about different brands it is only the case of non-referent cards.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
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February 05, 2012, 05:14:45 PM
#30
I dont doubt what you guys are saying.  Im sure in some situations the molex is a good idea. But to say its needed for any and all dual chips or more than 4 cards is complete bullshit. What should be said is they might be a good idea if your using cheap equipment or trying to run more cards than what your board was intended. If you have a decent board and psu that was designed for multiple cards you will not NEED the molex. Your equipment will run just fine without it and you will have saved yourself some money.

Ok.  Here's what it boils down to.. the PCIE spec allows for up to 75watts to be pulled through a PCIE slot.  Most cards only pull 25watts, with your higher end/dual gpu cards pulling the full amount.  Some board manufacturers will cut corners and think "They won't use all 6 PCIE slots at one time, so we'll only account for 150 watts for that" and go cheap.   Then you go and use risers to make more cards fit than what would normally and before you know it, you've got 6x25=150watts of draw.  Ok, not an issue.  The board the designed for 150 watts.  If any of those cards starts pulling more than 25watts and the board was made cheaply, you're screwed.

See how both sides can actually be right in this situation?  It really comes down to your exact mix of hardware.  So you run 6x5830s.  We all know different brands run their cards slightly different.  One person's 6x5830 might pull more than a different person's 6x5830s.  Its easier to make a blanket statement about using molex than it is to go and explain all of this, especially to n00bs. 

That being said, I think 22.95 for a riser is a bit much, although I have bought some when I couldn't get them elsewhere.
 
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 05:05:03 PM
#29
I dont doubt what you guys are saying.  Im sure for some people the molex is a good idea. But to say its needed for any and all dual chips or more than 4 cards is not true. If you have a decent board and psu that was desigend for the amount of cards your running you will not NEED the molex. Your equipment will run just fine without it and you will have saved yourself some money.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2012, 04:46:18 PM
#28
It's not bullshit.  I would rather spend $4 in "insurance" than $150 for a new motherboard.  Having burnt out a couple motherboards myself, I know first hand what can happen.  I can also assure you that it was not operator error - one of the boards in question was running a single 5970 and a 5870, both without Molex on the risers.  It was a cheap mobo and the ATX connectors, as I said, are not all created equal and poof, there it goes. 

It happens more often I've found with either a) overloaded PSUs or b) cheap PSUs (which in the end are just overloaded PSUs).  You're far more likely to get away without using a Molex if you are running 5 5850's with a quality, high output PSU than you would if you were running 5 5970's on a 1400w PSU... in fact, I can almost guarantee you will burn out your board trying to run that many 5970's without a molex.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 04:27:29 PM
#27
I do get it. People are posting pics of burnt out parts and posting links to cables with a molex and suggesting they are better or needed. You can recommended them for dual chip cards or more than 4 cards but to say you need them is just plain bullshit.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
February 05, 2012, 04:19:48 PM
#26
Your charging $22.

I must agree, $22 is really a ripoff. But unfortunately that's what happens when there's little competition (plenty of riser suppliers but very few make ones with molex).
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
February 05, 2012, 04:10:57 PM
#25
Well since ive personally used around 56 of these extenders without issue im not convinced the molex is necessary. Any problems arising is probably due to operator error not the lack of a molex. Dont overload your board or psu and these will work just fine.

i dont think you are getting it..

they are not saying that the risers are causing this, they are saying that too many cards pulling too much voltage from the board causes it.

the reason they want the molex connector is to lessen the load on th emobo since the power can be supplied via the molex connector

so lets cover this again

a) pcie risers didnt cause that.. too much power draw through the mobo did
b) we all agree your pcie extenders are probably great, no one said anything about quality or anything regarding that
c) if you want to run more than 4 cards in a rig it is highly recommended to utilize the molex connector risers to lessen the chance of this happening.


sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 02:55:19 PM
#24
Maybe your right but i cant agree with you simply because im currently running 5970s and have run 5 cards without the molex. I also got my extenders for $4. Your charging $22. Im happy with them and im confident my buyers will be too.
sr. member
Activity: 302
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 02:36:54 PM
#23
PCIe Extenders with molex are needed on any dual GPU card. Your 5970's, etc, all need Molex cables to ensure you do not damage your motherboard from over draw.

PCIe Extenders with molex are also needed if you're running any combination of more than 4 GPU's on the extra cards. If you're running 5 5830's or something, than one card should be using an extender w/ molex.

PCIe Extenders with molex may be needed on some random motherboards to use an extender at all, but most of the time, very few boards will run into this. PCIe Extenders without molex should be fine in any other situation. Some folks like to use Extenders w/ molex on all cards, just to be safe. This might be a bit overkill but isn't a bad idea to ensure longevity.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 01:51:14 PM
#22
Well since ive personally used around 56 of these extenders without issue im not convinced the molex is necessary. Any problems arising is probably due to operator error not the lack of a molex. Dont overload your board or psu and these will work just fine.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2012, 01:04:59 PM
#21
That is caused by pulling too much current through your ATX connector.  not all connectors are created equal.  not all motherboards are equal.  You should be using Molex connectors to supply power if you have a lot of cards.  I have several similar burned out motherboards due to the same reason. 

I usually use 2, maybe 3 cards that get power from the motherboard, the rest are powered from a molex on the PCIe extender.
full member
Activity: 256
Merit: 100
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February 05, 2012, 01:00:56 PM
#20
PCI-E boards get some power from the motherboard (not just via the 2 power sockets what is on the board). If you have 5 or 6 cards it is better to use an extender with MOLEX. This extra power will take off the load from the motherboard.



When I look at that pic I have doubts risers caused that. The first thing that comes to my mind is power supply. People are probably trying to pull to much power from their psu.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 05, 2012, 04:17:04 AM
#19
When I look at that pic I have doubts risers caused that. The first thing that comes to my mind is power supply. People are probably trying to pull to much power from their psu.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
February 04, 2012, 07:25:44 PM
#18


Had the same thing happen to me but reason was slightly defective PSU (Corsair VX 550W) which was stressed too much ~100% for two weeks 24/7. No problems after switching to TX850V2 with same risers which were not the issue in my case, even though I have 3 GPUs like before and they draw more power (they're overvolted now).
sr. member
Activity: 302
Merit: 250
February 04, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
#17
Thats not true. Ive run 30 5850 with 5 cards per board as well as 2 rigs with 4 5970 each. Ive used more than 50 of these. Never had any problems. They work great.

Running 5 cards may work. Running 5 cards may also stress your motherboard PCIe bus to the point of burning out.

You're not going to really know if you have a problem until something has died. You will not at all necessarily have mining or desktop performance symptoms leading up to such a hardware failure.

Edit: Not all motherboards are created equal as well.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
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February 04, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
#16
It really all depends on the draw of the cards.  With 5830s you can get away with having 5 in a board, but seriously, you'll know when you're trying to pull too much through the motherboard. The cards will run like crap, the board will be super hot, and at some point, the system will stop working all together.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
February 04, 2012, 02:58:31 PM
#15
The risers in that pic could have been defective. Im sure you will get defective risers with the molex too.
sr. member
Activity: 386
Merit: 250
February 04, 2012, 02:51:34 PM
#14
That looks like improper grounding or way too many GPUs were being run through the board. You need to make sure as a rule of thumb you're not running more than 4 cards per motherboard without Molex extenders.
EDIT: Also, any and all dual GPU cards need run through a Molex powered cable if using an extender. This includes 5970's, 6990's etc.

Does the length of the extender matter in this case?
i.e. If you're using 1 GPU per mobo with either: a) 4in extender b) 8in c) 2 foot extender (hypothetically, not sure if this exists)
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