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Topic: Roger Ver Endorses Trace Mayer For Bitcoin Foundation Board Seat - page 2. (Read 5063 times)

newbie
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
1. Should copyright exist?


1. No because I do not find any of the arguments I have read regarding the use of violence against someone merely for speech to be compelling and therefore it would violate the Non-Aggression Axiom but I remain minded to superior arguments. Additionally, copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas, is still being used as a tool to suppress ideas like with the raid on Kim Dotcom and is all done under color of law that is built on a very weak intellectual foundation for moral justification.

Consequently, I am against the use of violence to impede or prevent the spread of the Bitcoin protocol because it is speech.

huh?  You went to law school and you don't understand the purpose of copyrights and intellectual property? 

"copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas"

Maybe the law has been taken too far but it was put into place at the request of artists to protect their work.  The rest of your lunatic rant in unintelligible to normal people.
copyright is for people who want to suck in money.
i do not support copyright, that's why I pirate non-open-source products and I donate to open-source projects.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
1. Should copyright exist?
1. No because I do not find any of the arguments I have read regarding the use of violence against someone merely for speech to be compelling and therefore it would violate the Non-Aggression Axiom but I remain minded to superior arguments. Additionally, copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas, is still being used as a tool to suppress ideas like with the raid on Kim Dotcom and is all done under color of law that is built on a very weak intellectual foundation for moral justification.
Consequently, I am against the use of violence to impede or prevent the spread of the Bitcoin protocol because it is speech.
huh?  You went to law school and you don't understand the purpose of copyrights and intellectual property? 
"copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas"
Maybe the law has been taken too far but it was put into place at the request of artists to protect their work.  The rest of your lunatic rant in unintelligible to normal people.

Copyright law has its roots in censorship. Failure to realize this means being blind to the potential for abuse.

http://torrentfreak.com/the-copyright-monopoly-was-created-as-a-censorship-instrument-and-is-still-used-as-one-130901/
http://www.google.pl/books?id=BzLXGUxV4CkC&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false

Well, don't let the Winklevoss twins know you think protecting intellectual property is a bad thing. I bet they'd like to censor Mark Zuckerberg with a 2x4 plank across the head. lol
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
I do not want Trace Mayer on the board. I have met and talked with him and he seems like a decent person, but I don't want someone on the board that is there to promote themselves or their product.

That would eliminate everyone.  That is the purpose of these types of organizations.

There's a difference between promoting the bitcoin ecosystem and promoting yourself/your product within that ecosystem.

I don't know Trace, but based on his statements here, I won't support him for a board seat. What the Foundation needs are serious people capable of interacting with the rest of the world in an acceptable way, not fringe political ideologues.
legendary
Activity: 4522
Merit: 3426
I do not want Trace Mayer on the board. I have met and talked with him and he seems like a decent person, but I don't want someone on the board that is there to promote themselves or their product.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1724
1. Should copyright exist?
1. No because I do not find any of the arguments I have read regarding the use of violence against someone merely for speech to be compelling and therefore it would violate the Non-Aggression Axiom but I remain minded to superior arguments. Additionally, copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas, is still being used as a tool to suppress ideas like with the raid on Kim Dotcom and is all done under color of law that is built on a very weak intellectual foundation for moral justification.
Consequently, I am against the use of violence to impede or prevent the spread of the Bitcoin protocol because it is speech.
huh?  You went to law school and you don't understand the purpose of copyrights and intellectual property? 
"copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas"
Maybe the law has been taken too far but it was put into place at the request of artists to protect their work.  The rest of your lunatic rant in unintelligible to normal people.

Copyright law has its roots in censorship. Failure to realize this means being blind to the potential for abuse.

http://torrentfreak.com/the-copyright-monopoly-was-created-as-a-censorship-instrument-and-is-still-used-as-one-130901/
http://www.google.pl/books?id=BzLXGUxV4CkC&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
As a Bitcoin-QT core developer, foundation member, and Bitcoin enthusiast I am strongly opposed to Trace Mayer on the foundation seat.

In the past he has treated me in a manner which I found to be disrespectful and hostile, which is saying a lot considering that I can handle reading the mining subforum here.

Contact from him which was, in my opinion, threatening made me seriously consider discontinuing my involvement with Bitcoin.

In light of this, I do not believe that his approach or interpersonal skills are suited for the role.



Links/quotes supporting your claim?
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
Gold Silver Bitcoin: It's your choice
Trace Mayer is personally responsible for bringing me, while I was writing for the Silver Vigilante and Dollar Vigilante, into the Bitcoin space.

He is the person who led to me buying the domain and starting GoldSilverBitcoin, and therefore was one of the reasons which ultimately led me to write Bitcoinomics: The Bitcoin Book. His effects have been palpable for bitcoiners, and who knows, maybe he is one of the numerous reasons you are here without you knowing it.  He has always been cordial to me and I believe Trace is capable of taking a major role in the Foundation's efforts or any Bitcoin endeavor

When it comes to Bitcoin's day-to-day, I have a feeling that Trace's positions differ quite a bit from my own.

Nonetheless, I support him in all he does.

And all of you should invest less in shit-talking.

From your web page:  "Anarcho-Capitalist.  Libertarian.  Freedom fighter against mankind’s two biggest enemies, the State and the Central Banks."

While some of things you say are true most people don't go around saying "mankind's biggest enemy is ... "  These things will drive away casual users because it makes Bitcoin appear to be some kind of wacko fringe element system that they don't want to be associated with.  Just like most people are not looking to "vanish."

That is not my web-page. That is Jeff Berwick's web page. Interesting dude. Had great (and reserved) appearances on mainstream media for BitcoinATM. When Trace brought BTC to my attention, I wrote as Silver Vigilante and wrote for Dollar Vigilante. It was a casual conversation I had with him at FreedomFest that made me realize the oh-so obvious. I am not an anarcho-capitalist.  I think a communist might serve just as well as a libertarian for the foundation. It's really a question of base intentions more-so than overt political slants.
sr. member
Activity: 341
Merit: 250
i for one am happy that this thread is on here.  It goes good with the popcorn i just made.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
You may note that I revised my message to make abundantly clear that I am stating my personal opinion, for whatever worth people want to take it for.

I do not want to endure more legal threats from you. If you insist on making them, however, I am not afraid.

But after my interactions I with you I do not believe the Bitcoin community would be well served by your services in this role.

As an aside, I do not understand why you persist in referring to yourself in the third person. I am also mildly confused at your commentary regarding pleadings for a judge. Is this a reference to your prior legal threats? I did not believe you were licensed to practice law.

I would really prefer not to have to even read this kind of stuff.  But given that you brought up the issue it is not enough to speak in such broad terms. Nor do I want to wade through 24 pages and 3 github conversations of people bickering over what should have been a very positive development, guessing at what comments made you fear for your safety and feel legally threatened.

So I think you need to back up your assertions with some actual links.  Otherwise it just sounds like FUD.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
Gold Silver Bitcoin: It's your choice
Trace Mayer is personally responsible for bringing me, while I was writing for the Silver Vigilante and Dollar Vigilante, into the Bitcoin space.

He is the person who led to me buying the domain and starting GoldSilverBitcoin, and therefore was one of the reasons which ultimately led me to write Bitcoinomics: The Bitcoin Book. His effects have been palpable for bitcoiners, and who knows, maybe he is one of the numerous reasons you are here without you knowing it.  He has always been cordial to me and I believe Trace is capable of taking a major role in the Foundation's efforts or any Bitcoin endeavor

When it comes to Bitcoin's day-to-day, I have a feeling that Trace's positions differ quite a bit from my own.

Nonetheless, I support him in all he does.

And all of you should invest less in shit-talking.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
Trace Mayer strikes me as a sociopath.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Very strange thread, why is Trace Mayer taking such a laboured approach to informing us that Roger Ver supports his candidacy? Can Trace Mayer answer?  Grin

As an aside, I do not understand why you persist in referring to yourself in the third person. I am also mildly confused at your commentary regarding pleadings for a judge.

Mainly to make it easier for those not following the conversation to get a grasp on the facts.

Unlike the rest of your opaque and meandering prose?

Consequently, I am against the use of violence to impede or prevent the spread of the Bitcoin protocol because it is speech.

No it's not. I'm not even going to give such a preposterous proposition the credence of arguing against it, suffice to say; no it's not.

2. I think developing the core protocol to be incredibly robust and tangential code and services around it which greatly increase the level of protection individuals can secure for the lowest cost possible.

This sentence is too vague to be meaningful. I could go on with this critique, but it looks like a lot of work, you've gone into all-out politician mode.


I would be concerned if this kind of candidate can actually appeal to foundation members with this sort of rhetoric, he sounds like he prepared for this campaign with Aristotle "...on Tyranny", Machiavelli's "The Prince" and an ounce of cocaine.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
Thanks for your prescient answers. I support your viewpoints.
legendary
Activity: 1031
Merit: 1000
1. Should copyright exist?

2. How better can we allocate money/resources in the Bitcoin space?

3. Why do you support a central foundation?

4. Is Bitcoin guaranteed to happen (like internet or printing press)?

5. What do you think of Cody Wilson?

1. No because I do not find any of the arguments I have read regarding the use of violence against someone merely for speech to be compelling and therefore it would violate the Non-Aggression Axiom but I remain minded to superior arguments. Additionally, copyright was invented as a tool for the State to suppress the free flow of ideas, is still being used as a tool to suppress ideas like with the raid on Kim Dotcom and is all done under color of law that is built on a very weak intellectual foundation for moral justification.

Consequently, I am against the use of violence to impede or prevent the spread of the Bitcoin protocol because it is speech.

2. I think developing the core protocol to be incredibly robust and tangential code and services around it which greatly increase the level of protection individuals can secure for the lowest cost possible.

3. I suppose the only thing more difficult than herding cats is herding honey badgers. Bitcoin is an incredibly complex and technical subject. Jon Matonis and I have been a long-time thought leaders in the space and worked very hard to spread the knowledge about Bitcoin. Consequently, I know how difficult of a job that is to do. As Bitcoin grows and the needs of the economy and community mature I think it will be increasingly important to have some vehicle or mechanism to distribute asymmetrical information so we can build what our customers want. And the Foundation is merely one of many vehicles which can help keep those lines of communication open. After all, with open source projects we can work in much more complex ways.

And I think it is important, and have incurred significant expenses personally and allocated time towards, to interact with law enforcement, regulators and governmental agents to educate them objectively on the protocol and persuasively on the features, advantages and benefits of this innovative technology to individuals. However, we should be frugal in the use of the Foundation's funds and consequently if they want to be educated or receive consulting about Bitcoin then we should expect them to pay for it with a check or perhaps even some Bitcoins.

4. Bitcoin is happening but I agree with Mr. Maxwell that there are still some technical weaknesses that could be exploited and thus the reason I think the underlying protocol's robustness should continue to be developed. But human action finds a way and if not Bitcoin then it will likely be some other tool that serves this particular market need and I do not think cryptocurrency as an idea is going away without absolute and complete totalitarian tactics by all of the States, which is pretty far outside of the current political reality, and even then it may likely survive. Ideas can only be overcome by other ideas and Bitcoin is an extremely superior idea to the others out there that greatly lowers the costs in terms of time, money and privacy when it comes to transferring value over distance so the economics will present a tailwind for its adoption.

5. He is another Cipherspace Innovator the likes of which Steve Jobs referred to and is pushing the limits of what we thought was possible with merely freedom of speech and ideas. Additionally, as the Second Amendment was written the word 'arms' referred to armaments or weapons of war. So under a strict construction view of the Founder's intent there should be little if any restrictions so that the People can be on equal footing as the State.

And these are very substantive questions and perhaps you can pose them to the other candidates to get their positions and how they apply to their platforms. Thanks for stirring up the debate.
legendary
Activity: 1031
Merit: 1000
I do not want to endure more legal threats from you.

I am not sure why you are fabricating such aspersions. Your potential defamation of someone else, which I pointed out, would not give me a cause of action to drag you into court and most likely nor would I since it would be against my principles in that particular set of facts you are referring to.

But to move away from water under the bridge and focus on something more pressing you do point out a very important issue: Whether our Bitcoin developers are adequately protected legally?

With subpoenas, cease and desists, etc. already having been sent out I think this is an area of preemptive protection that needs more work done. In fact, one of my friends who only develops software pulled out the subpoena he received and I glanced over it.

Before either the subpoenas or C&Ds went out I raised the issue of a Bitcoin legal defense fund with Patrick Murck at the June Conference. Patrick recommended Brian Klein as chairman of a committee so I traveled to Santa Monica to meet with him, brainstorm what could be done and then we setup the Bitcoin Legal Defense Committee.

And it is precisely contributors and developers like yourself, those who are contributing code pro-bono, that I would like to see primarily and directly protected by whatever legal shield we can fashion.

As an aside, I do not understand why you persist in referring to yourself in the third person. I am also mildly confused at your commentary regarding pleadings for a judge.

Mainly to make it easier for those not following the conversation to get a grasp on the facts.

I think our training results in approaching issues differently. I am referring to the style of presentation: professional, issue and fact focused, either presenting objectively or arguing persuasively depending on the circumstance. I have never slug barbs at your personally in an ad hominem attack but instead focused only on the ideas and arguments you have presented.

On another note, in many areas like the assertions you make regarding CoinJoin I find myself agreeing with your positions and consequently have to modify my own positions as a result.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
As an aside, I do not understand why you persist in referring to yourself in the third person.

That's what crazypersons do. It's how you can identify them. Remember the finnish supernode? Same problem.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
Hahahahaha, is this the dude?



He looks exactly like the guy in zombie movies who first is a douchebag to everyone he meets and then gets eaten and the whole audience goes: "YEAH! WOOT Fuck that asshole! GO ZOMBIES, YEAH!!!"

And then he comes back and the protagonist neatly chops off the dude's head with a shovel (or sometimes un-neatly with a chainsaw) prompting another round of applause from the audience.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Go Zombies!
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
Hi Trace,

1. Should copyright exist?

2. How better can we allocate money/resources in the Bitcoin space?

3. Why do you support a central foundation?

4. Is Bitcoin guaranteed to happen (like internet or printing press)?

5. What do you think of Cody Wilson?

Thanks.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
You may note that I revised my message to make abundantly clear that I am stating my personal opinion, for whatever worth people want to take it for.

I do not want to endure more legal threats from you. If you insist on making them, however, I am not afraid.

But after my interactions I with you I do not believe the Bitcoin community would be well served by your services in this role.

As an aside, I do not understand why you persist in referring to yourself in the third person. I am also mildly confused at your commentary regarding pleadings for a judge. Is this a reference to your prior legal threats? I did not believe you were licensed to practice law.
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