Topic: Roger Ver : Gox "worst-run business in the history of the world". (Read 3126 times)

I agree. I can swallow everything else, but this particular point is nonsense/not well thought out. Again, i give the benefit of doubt.

There is no way 99% of the coins would vanish slowly without them going "Oh wait, 30% of the coins in our database are NOT backed by real BTC we are holding in all our wallets combined"

Maybe if not at 30% at 50% they SURELY should have noticed SOMETHING.

It's a complete garbage theory which no judge in court would buy even for a second, even if Karpeles had the IQ of fruit.
He cannot be THAT stupid given he knows how to program and has been running some business before.

For the incompetence theory to hold, we would have to be looking at the stupidest people walking earth to run MtGox.

If not karpeles, SOMEONE there would have noticed....

[doctor just before giving you a shot] "... you may feel some pressure but it will be over shortly ..."


Roger, inasmuch as you may believe it was “purely as a favor” please consider the following.  at the time of the first video your 24K btc being held by Mt Gox (MG) was literally under arrest -- not just in their care, but completely alienated from your control.   As such, it stands to reason that your visit that day was primarily concerning those funds, and probably not to make another 24K btc deposit.   

That video represented two things:

1) it highlighted why inherent conflicts of interest should be disclosed,
2) the extent you were willing to compromise your integrity,

The reason for MG visit that day was about your 24K btc not to do a PSA for MG.  It is very likely that the full extent of your holding in MG was limited to only what you could not control.  You knew MG had problems, you probably would not have gone there if you were comfortable with how they cared for your money, likewise you knew the general public was not comfortable with how MG cared for their money, however you willingly choose to overtly allay those concerns with the MG endorsement video.  Had you disclosed the reason for being there in the first place it would have shown the viewer a more accurate picture of MG. 

I believe you thought the 1st video would help in your effort to wrangle your 24K btc from MG, in so doing you were willing to needlessly place the public's interest in harms way to get your money.  Turns out you sold your soul, and stabbed the public in the back for nothing, and with that reality came video #2 -- the 'I said liquidity not solvency' video.

The semantic denotative difference between liquidity and solvency is irrelevant if the order is: "don't pay".  For example, if your house is on fire, you are told 4 fire trucks are on their way.  Upon arrival of the 1st truck the driver says: “sorry but I’m not liquid and I’m insolvent”.  You're baffled and wonder 'wtf dude', but you see the 2nd truck arriving.  Its driver says: “sorry, I’m not liquid although I am solvent”.  As pissed as you are you know your house is more important than your 'pisstivity' besides the next truck has arrived. Driver 3 says: “sorry, although I am liquid I’m insolvent”, you are livid, totally frustrated and your house is 50% consumed, that's when the 4th truck arrives, it is both liquid and solvent, yet none of the drivers act to put out the fire ...

As you can see from the above analogy it doesn't matter what they say if the intent is not to put out your fire, furthermore you can also see how your reasonable expectations was exploited and abused when they arrived to do nothing, serving only to distract you from considering other home saving opportunities.

Had you known their intent you would not have called them in the first place.

Roger, your endorsement video was a distraction that facilitated the ongoing abuse of the public's trust by Mt Gox, the fact that you were in an adversarial relationship with MG at that time but choose not to disclose that material fact at any point gives me great pause. 

If the US Attorney's office sees your participation as 'aiding and abetting' MG's effort to defraud the public you will have a lot more 'splaning to do.

[doctor] ok, that might swell and perhaps bleed a little but you'll be ok.


personally, I don't think either video had enough of a market impact to do any material damage, so don't worry about it

I agree. I can swallow everything else, but this particular point is nonsense/not well thought out. Again, i give the benefit of doubt.

There is no way 99% of the coins would vanish slowly without them going "Oh wait, 30% of the coins in our database are NOT backed by real BTC we are holding in all our wallets combined"

Maybe if not at 30% at 50% they SURELY should have noticed SOMETHING.

It's a complete garbage theory which no judge in court would buy even for a second, even if Karpeles had the IQ of fruit.
He cannot be THAT stupid given he knows how to program and has been running some business before.

For the incompetence theory to hold, we would have to be looking at the stupidest people walking earth to run MtGox.

If not karpeles, SOMEONE there would have noticed....

[doctor just before giving you a shot] "... you may feel some pressure but it will be over shortly ..."


Roger, inasmuch as you may believe it was “purely as a favor” please consider the following: at the time of the first video your 24K btc being held by Mt Gox (MG) was literally under arrest -- not just in their care, but completely alienated from your control.   As such, it stands to reason that your visit that day was primarily concerning those funds, and probably not to make another 24K btc deposit.  

That video represented two things:

1) it highlighted why inherent conflicts of interest should be disclosed, and
2) the extent you were willing to compromise your integrity,

The reason for your MG visit that day was about your 24K btc not to do a PSA for MG.  It is very likely that the full extent of your holding in MG was limited to only what you could not control.  You knew MG had problems, you probably would not have gone there if you were comfortable with how they cared for your money; likewise you knew the general public was not comfortable with how MG cared for their money, however you willingly chose to overtly allay those concerns with the MG endorsement video.  Had you disclosed the reason for being there in the first place it would have shown the viewer a more accurate picture of MG.  

I believe you thought the 1st video would help in your effort to wrangle your 24K btc from MG, in so doing you were willing to needlessly place the public's interest in harms way to get your money.  Turns out you sold your soul, and stabbed the public in the back for nothing, and with that reality came video #2 -- the 'I said liquidity not solvency' video.

The semantic denotative difference between liquidity and solvency is irrelevant if the order is: "don't pay".  For example, if your house is on fire, you are told 4 fire trucks are on their way.  Upon arrival of the 1st truck the driver says: “sorry but I’m not liquid and I’m insolvent”; you're baffled and wonder 'wtf dude', but you see the 2nd truck arriving, its driver says: “sorry, I’m not liquid although I am solvent”.  As pissed as you are you know your house is more important than your 'pisstivity' besides the next truck has arrived. Driver 3 says: “sorry, although I am liquid I’m insolvent”, you are livid, totally frustrated, and your house is 50% consumed, that's when the 4th truck arrives, it is both liquid and solvent, yet none of the duty sworn firefighters act to put out the fire ...

As you can see from the above analogy it doesn't matter what they say if the intent is not to put out your fire, furthermore you can also see how your reasonable expectations was exploited and abused when they arrived to do nothing, serving only to distract you from considering other home saving solutions.

Had you known their intent you likely would not have called them in the first place.

Roger, your endorsement video was a distraction that facilitated the ongoing abuse of the public's trust by Mt Gox, the fact that you were in an adversarial relationship with MG at that time but choose not to disclose that material fact at any point gives me great pause.  

If the US Attorney's office sees your participation as 'aiding and abetting' MG's effort to defraud the public you will have a lot more 'splaning to do.

[doctor] ok, that's it, it might swell and bleed a little but you'll be ok.


personally, I don't think either video had enough of a market impact to do any material damage, so don't worry about it

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/02/bitcoins-mt-gox-implodes/

The shit has truly hit the fan.

I agree. I can swallow everything else, but this particular point is nonsense/not well thought out. Again, i give the benefit of doubt.

There is no way 99% of the coins would vanish slowly without them going "Oh wait, 30% of the coins in our database are NOT backed by real BTC we are holding in all our wallets combined"

Maybe if not at 30% at 50% they SURELY should have noticed SOMETHING.

It's a complete garbage theory which no judge in court would buy even for a second, even if Karpeles had the IQ of fruit.
He cannot be THAT stupid given he knows how to program and has been running some business before.

For the incompetence theory to hold, we would have to be looking at the stupidest people walking earth to run MtGox.

If not karpeles, SOMEONE there would have noticed....

I'm sorry for your loss Roger. Losing 24000 BTC in a single day must be tough. Especially in the way it happened.


Actually no that is not obvious to me at all. How do you lose everyone's bitcoins without noticing exactly?

Jon Corzine and Mark Karpeles walk into a bar...

I'm sorry for your loss Roger. Losing 24000 BTC in a single day must be tough. Especially in the way it happened.


Actually no that is not obvious to me at all. How do you lose everyone's bitcoins without noticing exactly?

Isn't it clear to anyone who is paying attention?  Mtgox lost everyones bitcoins and didn't notice until 99% of them were gone.

You said you did the video purely as a favor to Mt Gox, kindly tell us who at Mt Gox asked you to do the video?

Who wrote the words that you read in that video?

What was your relationship with Mt Gox, and it's CEO at the time of the first video?

You specifically said: "I made a video stating that their fiat withdrawal problems were not being caused by a lack of liquidity. I made no claims regarding their solvency."  You do realize that, "liquidity' and "solvency" are symbiotic, and that any statement by you about Mt Gox at that sensitive time would be construed as an endorsement?

Why would you endorse Mt Gox at that troubled time in their development?  

In this video you said: "This issue was caused by poor programming skills and a total lack of book keeping on the part of Mtgox", is it true that Mt Gox allowed you to see their books, some of their financial records?

What did you know about their programming and bookkeeping and when did you know it?

Was it before you invested the "... life changing amount of bitcoins stuck in Mtgox" or just before making this new video.

BTW: did you sign the petition to remove MT Gox CEO from the btc foundation.

In what ways if any did you support the protesters at Mt Gox?  

With answers to those questions we could get a glimpse of that picture you are talking about.

Roger had at least 24000 bitcoins tied up in MtGox since 2012 due to the Bitcoinica liquidation. (MtGox refused to hand over the keys to the account to the court appointed liquidator citing 'privacy reasons' so the funds remained 'frozen' until the demise of MtGox yesterday).

He also released a new 'teleprompter' video today distancing himself from Gox and clarifying statements made in his earlier video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIJ_jpmwzo

With Roger Ver while i am leaning towards him having profited from this situation, i cannot in any way be 100% certain and there is a chance he just wasn't smart enough to not say anything when there was doubt about mtgox's financial situation.

Lol, you can even see that he's reading from a teleprompt! Probably got a good amount of btc for doing that. Just terrific.

lol. he was endorsing them not too long ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1YsMlrfF0

MtGox is up to its neck in legal dramas.  Why would anyone buy a company which regulators or law enforcement might shut down any day?

People are already furious about MtGox being unable to process withdrawals in a timely manner.  Any new owners who tried to limit withdrawals would quickly find themselves facing lawsuits.

why dont these early adopters buy up the business & help the little guys out ? re-staff & limit the BTC withdraws.

its been done before.