Roger Ver/Memorydealers is intentionally defrauding people.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Stunna on June 18, 2019, 09:15:59 PM

People like this do not deserve the trust flag, if you were to conduct a forum trade with him he would not scam you.

Let's not forget that he used his access to the blockchain.info database to publically dox someone. Read the full thread Roger's reasoning behind it. He was an untrustworthy person years ago and he still is.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 08:57:44 AM

weaponizing

Thank goodnes that word isn't overused these days. And I didn't just weaponize that extra spicy burrito against my poor gastric lining.

Since I'm a latecomer to everything, I just got Amazon Prime and have been availing myself of their awesome selection of videos and of course one of the first things I searched for was stuff on bitcoin and cryptocurrency. One of the vids I watched featured Roger Ver (can't recall which video), and my takeaway impression was that he was a fool--and I say this not being an expert in crypto but a person with a little common sense and a fair grasp on reality. Some of the things that came out of his mouth just made me keep slapping my head. Before this I'd no clue who he was, though of course I've seen his name pop up on the forum here and there. Following personalities in any field just isn't my thing.

So my gut tells me that what OP posited could be true, though I don't have enough information to make a determination and will quickly bow out of this discussion. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.

malevolent

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Quote from: Stunna on June 18, 2019, 09:15:59 PM

I am pretty confident if I someone anonymously sent Roger Ver 1000 BTC right now he would probably return it. People like this do not deserve the trust flag, if you were to conduct a forum trade with him he would not scam you. This just seems super political especially when he is not active on this forum. At the end of the day I would trust Roger Ver to do large trades with, more so than some of the most trusted people on this forum.

As linked above, he is intentionally misleading people causing them to lose money.

He also sells BTC which he refers to as "Bitcoin Core", even though Bitcoin Core is an altcoin with a different ticker ("BTCC").

He should get flagged by one of the people he misled, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to give him a Newbie-flag.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Stunna on June 18, 2019, 09:15:59 PM

I firmly believe Roger Ver thinks Bitcoin cash is the real bitcoin. I am pretty confident if I someone anonymously sent Roger Ver 1000 BTC right now he would probably return it. People like this do not deserve the trust flag, if you were to conduct a forum trade with him he would not scam you. This just seems super political especially when he is not active on this forum. At the end of the day I would trust Roger Ver to do large trades with, more so than some of the most trusted people on this forum.

See Lauda's reply. They have recently rebranded bitcoin .com, making it even more confusing for newcomers. For example, they are now showing BCH's historical price data pre-fork, making it look like it has existed since the birth of BTC. Intentionally misleading people into thinking that Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin is malicious and using the bitcoin .com website/wallet for that is extremely scammy imo. Plenty of people have complained about accidently buying BCH instead of BTC because of this.

This isn't political at all, this is purely aimed at Roger's behaviour. In fact, I think that Bitcoin Cash is an interesting experiment to see what happens if Bitcoin switches to big blocks.

Stunna

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I firmly believe Roger Ver thinks Bitcoin cash is the real bitcoin. I am pretty confident if I someone anonymously sent Roger Ver 1000 BTC right now he would probably return it. People like this do not deserve the trust flag, if you were to conduct a forum trade with him he would not scam you. This just seems super political especially when he is not active on this forum. At the end of the day I would trust Roger Ver to do large trades with, more so than some of the most trusted people on this forum.

ChemicalSpillage

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:24:44 PM

You are ignoring the fact he believes bitcoin cash to be bitcoin.

There isn’t any in charge of naming various coins that decided bitcoin is named bitcoin.

You can tautologically define terms in that manner but when you are conveying this to others you must ensure that they too accept your definition. If you do not prepend your statements with remarks that detail these redefinitions then you risk miscommunication.

For example, if I sell a drink that I have labeled as "50 year aged Bourbon" but I was referring to the Pawukon calendar (210 days vs. 365) then I would have to make that clear if I did not have the intention of misleading others. General consensus implies that most would expect you to refer to the common definition of "year".

Lauda

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:24:44 PM

You are ignoring the fact he believes bitcoin cash to be bitcoin.

New playground example:
User is a scammer.
User believes that what he is doing is not scamming.
Therefore, you can't flag the user. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quickseller

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Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 03:20:12 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 09:04:57 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 08:57:44 AM

Word spaghetti

Have you actually clicked any of the links in the OP? I have not shared my personal opinion about Bitcoin Cash nor has it anything to do with it. Roger Ver is intentionally promoting an altcoin as Bitcoin, which causes people to lose money. Feel free to point out which of the evidence I have provided is false or out of context and I will happily redact it.

It is a difference in opinion from your opinion.

I am fairly confident that he believes his representations, and he is not leading people to believe they are getting a large discount on the bitcoin cash they buy.

As I stated, you should ask someone capable of making a well rounded argument to argue against the technical aspects of bitcoin cash. Perhaps Rodger Ver will respond with his own arguments and any one can come to their own conclusions.

Yet again, this accusation has nothing to do with Bitcoin Cash or its technical aspects. Read the OP, click the links and show me which one of them shouldn't be regarded as misleading or fraudulent.

You are ignoring the fact he believes bitcoin cash to be bitcoin.

There isn’t any in charge of naming various coins that decided bitcoin is named bitcoin.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 09:04:57 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 08:57:44 AM

Word spaghetti

Have you actually clicked any of the links in the OP? I have not shared my personal opinion about Bitcoin Cash nor has it anything to do with it. Roger Ver is intentionally promoting an altcoin as Bitcoin, which causes people to lose money. Feel free to point out which of the evidence I have provided is false or out of context and I will happily redact it.

It is a difference in opinion from your opinion.

I am fairly confident that he believes his representations, and he is not leading people to believe they are getting a large discount on the bitcoin cash they buy.

As I stated, you should ask someone capable of making a well rounded argument to argue against the technical aspects of bitcoin cash. Perhaps Rodger Ver will respond with his own arguments and any one can come to their own conclusions.

Yet again, this accusation has nothing to do with Bitcoin Cash or its technical aspects. Read the OP, click the links and show me which one of them shouldn't be regarded as misleading or fraudulent.

Quickseller

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Quote from: Lauda on June 12, 2019, 03:04:52 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:02:45 PM

As I stated, you should ask someone capable of making a well rounded argument to argue against the technical aspects of bitcoin cash. Perhaps Rodger Ver will respond with his own arguments and any one can come to their own conclusions.

Roger Ver is not capable of making technical arguments. The clown-hat of the day goes to you.

If this is true, it should be easy to successfully argue against using or buying bitcoin cash with your own technical arguments.

Lauda

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:02:45 PM

I am fairly confident that he believes his representations

It doesn't matter what a conman believes, it's still a con.

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 03:02:45 PM

As I stated, you should ask someone capable of making a well rounded argument to argue against the technical aspects of bitcoin cash. Perhaps Rodger Ver will respond with his own arguments and any one can come to their own conclusions.

Roger Ver is not capable of making technical arguments. The clown-hat of the day goes to you.

Quickseller

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Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 09:04:57 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 08:57:44 AM

Word spaghetti

Have you actually clicked any of the links in the OP? I have not shared my personal opinion about Bitcoin Cash nor has it anything to do with it. Roger Ver is intentionally promoting an altcoin as Bitcoin, which causes people to lose money. Feel free to point out which of the evidence I have provided is false or out of context and I will happily redact it.

It is a difference in opinion from your opinion.

I am fairly confident that he believes his representations, and he is not leading people to believe they are getting a large discount on the bitcoin cash they buy.

As I stated, you should ask someone capable of making a well rounded argument to argue against the technical aspects of bitcoin cash. Perhaps Rodger Ver will respond with his own arguments and any one can come to their own conclusions.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 12, 2019, 08:57:44 AM

Word spaghetti

Have you actually clicked any of the links in the OP? I have not shared my personal opinion about Bitcoin Cash nor has it anything to do with it. Roger Ver is intentionally promoting an altcoin as Bitcoin, which causes people to lose money. Feel free to point out which of the evidence I have provided is false or out of context and I will happily redact it.

Quickseller

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If you ask my opinion, you are weaponizing the trust system for political reasons. I certainly don’t think there is any written contract he violated. His opinion is different than yours (or LaudaMs, which you are pretty clearly a puppet of).

Although I acknowledge you are incapable of making a well rounded fact based technical argument against bitcoin cash (or at all), I would encourage anyone who doesn’t like bitcoin cash to make this kind of argument and others can make their own decision after coming to their own conclusions. There are plenty of people capable of doing this.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Lauda on June 12, 2019, 07:57:04 AM

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 07:54:40 AM

It seems that it is fine to support a flag, as long as the accusation is based on clear fact-statements and doesn't contain false accusations.

There you go. I used August 2017 as the date. Flag link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=52.

I have PMed Theymos to ask for clarification. It feels wrong not being able to support a flag like this.

Lauda

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Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 12, 2019, 07:54:40 AM

It seems that it is fine to support a flag, as long as the accusation is based on clear fact-statements and doesn't contain false accusations.

There you go. I used August 2017 as the date. Flag link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=52.

TheNewAnon135246

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Quote from: Lauda on June 12, 2019, 07:47:43 AM

Quote from: Foxpup on June 12, 2019, 07:40:59 AM

For reference, here's an actual case of financial loss incurred as a result of this scam: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/newbie-questionbitcoins-sent-to-seller-he-says-he-didnt-get-them-2835521 (No doubt there are many more; this is just the first one I found.)

I'd gladly risk a blacklist over this, but the problem is that nobody is allowed to support it without risking blacklisting themselves. The system actually de-incentivizes supporting any accusations, which makes no sense.

Theymos stated:

Quote from: theymos on June 11, 2019, 10:13:36 PM

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

It seems that it is fine to support a flag, as long as the accusation is based on clear fact-statements and doesn't contain false accusations.

Lauda

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Quote from: Foxpup on June 12, 2019, 07:40:59 AM

For reference, here's an actual case of financial loss incurred as a result of this scam: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/newbie-questionbitcoins-sent-to-seller-he-says-he-didnt-get-them-2835521 (No doubt there are many more; this is just the first one I found.)

I'd gladly risk a blacklist over this, but the problem is that nobody is allowed to support it without risking blacklisting themselves. The system actually de-incentivizes supporting any accusations, which makes no sense.

Foxpup

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For reference, here's an actual case of financial loss incurred as a result of this scam: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/newbie-questionbitcoins-sent-to-seller-he-says-he-didnt-get-them-2835521 (No doubt there are many more; this is just the first one I found.)

Lauda

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Quote

Due to various concrete red flags, I believe that anyone dealing with this user has a high risk of losing money. (This flag will only be shown to guests/newbies.)
This user violated a casual or implied agreement with me, resulting in damages.
This user violated a written contract with me, resulting in damages.

All these options are dumb:
1) Is too weak for Roger.
2) Same but can be argued by anyone who touched his website(s).
3) Can't be argued by anyone as there is no direct "written contract" with him.

:applauds liberalists once more:

Topic: Roger Ver/Memorydealers is intentionally defrauding people. (Read 826 times)